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NRA Newtown response [W:818]

Re: NRA Newtown response

upsideguy said:
Remember the Columbine kids obtained their guns through a Denver gun show. If that loophole had been closed, their feat would have been a bit more difficult (not impossible by any means) to pull off.
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I actually don't care much that they obtained their guns through a Denver gun show. I think gun shows need to be regulated. These gun sellers are in business to sell guns. The fact that they don't have brick-and-mortar stores is immaterial. They should be treated absolutely no differently than the gun shop on the corner. I think it's a disgrace, actually.
 
Re: NRA Newtown response

MaggieD said:
I actually don't care much that they obtained their guns through a Denver gun show. I think gun shows need to be regulated. These gun sellers are in business to sell guns. The fact that they don't have brick-and-mortar stores is immaterial. They should be treated absolutely no differently than the gun shop on the corner. I think it's a disgrace, actually.
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Sounds like the rest of the world needs to get a grip on their gun shows.

I've never been to a gun show here that didn't have a background screening process, and a requirement for one to possess a pistol purchase permit before buying a handgun.



Of course..... people could just be repeating lies they have heard on TV without any first hand knowledge of the topic....
 
Re: NRA Newtown response

Caine said:
Sounds like the rest of the world needs to get a grip on their gun shows.

I've never been to a gun show here that didn't have a background screening process, and a requirement for one to possess a pistol purchase permit before buying a handgun.

Of course..... people could just be repeating lies they have heard on TV without any first hand knowledge of the topic....
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Can they purchase any other gun without a permit? Can they purchase AK47's without permits? (IOW, you said they needed a permit for handguns...for all of them?) In what state are they required to possess a permit? I don't know the answers. I'd really like to know because I thought anyone could go to a gun show and buy a gun.
 
Re: NRA Newtown response

iguanaman said:
Which ever gun uses the incredibly fast and incredible destructive .223 ammo. That ammo allong with all guns that use it need to be banned.
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you were provide a ballistics chart and ample time to read it..... why do remain ignorant on the matter?
 
Re: NRA Newtown response

Caine said:
Sounds like the rest of the world needs to get a grip on their gun shows.

I've never been to a gun show here that didn't have a background screening process, and a requirement for one to possess a pistol purchase permit before buying a handgun.



Of course..... people could just be repeating lies they have heard on TV without any first hand knowledge of the topic....
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To date, the National Instant Criminal Background Check System (NICS) has prevented nearly 1.8 million criminals and other prohibited purchasers from buying guns. The law also has a deterrent effect—prohibited purchasers are less likely to try to buy guns when they know comprehensive background check requirements are in place.

Unfortunately, current federal law requires criminal background checks only for guns sold through licensed firearm dealers, which account for just 60% of all gun sales in the United States. A loophole in the law allows individuals not “engaged in the business” of selling firearms to sell guns without a license—and without processing any paperwork. That means that two out of every five guns sold in the United States change hands without a background check.

Though commonly referred to as the “Gun Show Loophole,” the “private sales” described above include guns sold at gun shows, through classified newspaper ads, the Internet, and between individuals virtually anywhere.

Unfortunately, only six states (CA, CO, IL, NY, OR, RI) require universal background checks on all firearm sales at gun shows. Three more states (CT, MD, PA) require background checks on all handgun sales made at gun shows. Seven other states (HI, IA, MA, MI, NJ, NC, NE) require purchasers to obtain a permit and undergo a background check before buying a handgun. Florida allows its counties to regulate gun shows by requiring background checks on all firearms purchases at these events. 33 states have taken no action whatsoever to close the Gun Show Loophole.
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Perhaps it's not me...just sayin'.
 
Re: NRA Newtown response

MaggieD said:
I actually don't care much that they obtained their guns through a Denver gun show. I think gun shows need to be regulated. These gun sellers are in business to sell guns. The fact that they don't have brick-and-mortar stores is immaterial. They should be treated absolutely no differently than the gun shop on the corner. I think it's a disgrace, actually.
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We agree. I am not against gun shows; just against the loophole that allows people to buy guns there without submitting to background checks. My point was that the Columbine kids used the gun show loophole as an easy method to obtain guns. They would have had a much harder time had background checks been required.
 
Re: NRA Newtown response

upsideguy said:
No evidence? Now, you can say that you are too lazy to find the evidence. You can say that you read all the evidence but do not find it compelling. You can say you read the evidence but find faults as follows (inserting, of course, your relevant cites). You can say that you have read the evidence but just want to continue to believe what you believe. You can not, however, say with a straight face and intellectual integrity, that no such evidence exists, because it does.

Gun control: The gun control that works: no guns | The Economist
Is Gun Control Likely To Reduce Violent Killings?
http://andrewleigh.org/pdf/GunBuyback_Panel.pdf
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...and other evidence to refute the notion that "there is no evidence":

http://web.archive.org/web/20080107...oks/series/understanding/19_GUN_OWNERSHIP.pdf

http://www.hsph.harvard.edu/research/hicrc/firearms-research/guns-and-death/index.html
http://ajph.aphapublications.org/doi/pdf/10.2105/AJPH.2008.143099
 
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Re: NRA Newtown response

MaggieD said:
Can they purchase any other gun without a permit? Can they purchase AK47's without permits? (IOW, you said they needed a permit for handguns...for all of them?) In what state are they required to possess a permit? I don't know the answers. I'd really like to know because I thought anyone could go to a gun show and buy a gun.
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in North Carolina in order to purchase a handgun, you have to get a handgun purchase permit from the local sheriff.

For purchase of long guns, you have to have background check done by the seller of the firearm, which can be done same day.


Regardless..... ALL FFL dealers have to do a background check to sell a firearm.
 
Re: NRA Newtown response

upsideguy said:
We agree. I am not against gun shows; just against the loophole that allows people to buy guns there without submitting to background checks. My point was that the Columbine kids used the gun show loophole as an easy method to obtain guns. They would have had a much harder time had background checks been required.
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What loophole is that?

Never seen it, never heard of it.

Have you ever been to a gun show?
 
Re: NRA Newtown response

MaggieD said:
Can they purchase any other gun without a permit? Can they purchase AK47's without permits? (IOW, you said they needed a permit for handguns...for all of them?) In what state are they required to possess a permit? I don't know the answers. I'd really like to know because I thought anyone could go to a gun show and buy a gun.
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the laws pertaining to guns shows are the exact laws that pertain to any and all firearms purchases outside of gun shows... which vary from state to state.


for instance, here in Texas, I don't need to even have a background check to purchase any non-NFA firearm at a gunshow.... or a gun store... or a parking lot ( CCW holders are exempt)
in 3 states, all purchases of firearms, by anyone, are required to have a background check.

were I not a CCW holder, I would be required to run a background check on applicable weapons purchases ( as defined by federal law)

there are no "permits" here besides a CCW.. there is no state registration of firearms either.
your purchase, however, will be declined by everybody, private or commercial dealers, if you do not posses a Texas license....on scene law enforcement enforce this vigorously.
 
Re: NRA Newtown response

upsideguy said:
We agree. I am not against gun shows; just against the loophole that allows people to buy guns there without submitting to background checks. My point was that the Columbine kids used the gun show loophole as an easy method to obtain guns. They would have had a much harder time had background checks been required.
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they would have a much harder time purchasing at a gunshow... but not a much harder time purchasing the weapons.

private sales happen far more outside of gunshows than in them....

I will say this though... the law concerning dealers who are required to run backgrounds checks needs to be tweaked.. the" occasional sales" exemption is pretty silly and need ot be better defined, as it allows folks who are in the commercial business of selling firearms to pretend they are not.
 
Re: NRA Newtown response

TaraAnne said:
Turtle,

Since this did not happen and is nothing more than a start to a great fiction novel on your part. Lets state the facts. One her sonTwe had a full time special needs counciler in high school. Two his own brother has been qouted a number of time that his brother had mental disabilities. So for a gun owner to even have weapons in the house with some one that has a history of mental problems is not a responcible gun owner.

You have got to be kidding golf clubs to hunting lol. Let me know next time when someone goes hunting or on a killing spree with a 7 iron. I have every much right as you do to tel others about self defence. Thats why! there are no need for 100 round magizines let alone 30, one could make the case for as little as 8. The ar-15 was never design as a hunting rifle niether was a glock. Your delusions on this subject are quite disturbing at best and are nonsence. So you need a 30 round mag for exactly what? Hunting, this self defence you keep going back to? Exactly what is the point. Police are the only ones that need these weapons and the military period. The idea that you need a 30 round clip silly.

The point of the discussion about the NRA responce. The responce was made by an idioit that runs an organization who's sole excistance is to scare people into buying more guns period end of file. They did not start out that way, plus I think we are all going to see a change in the NRA really soon. More level headed members are going to start stepping forward and taking control back from the wingnuts in charge now. The speech that man gave was silly and a waste of time, had he any logical points he would have allowed questions. However, we all got a good look at the irrational behavior of the NRA leadership. thewhole point to the speech was blame everything else. Which has typically been the responce by conservatives for the last six years.

why do you people always bring up hunting-that has no more relevance than golf clubs. YOu are IN NO POSITION to tell others what they need for self defense. 100 round MAGAZINES tend to jam and the rifle in question was not designed (magazine release catch for example) to accept the Beta Mag. but it was designed to function with its STANDARD CAPACITY magazine which is was 30 rounds and that is what most police departments issue to their CIVILIAN employees for SELF DEFENSE against CRIMINALS in a CIVILIAN URBAN environment. Which means such rifles with 30 round magazines are just as useful for people such as me
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people who have continually demonstrated they have no clue about firearms are in no position to tell experts what we need.

Learn how to use the quote function as well. Your post is confused and silly due to your inability to do so
 
Re: NRA Newtown response

Thrilla said:
they would have a much harder time purchasing at a gunshow... but not a much harder time purchasing the weapons.

private sales happen far more outside of gunshows than in them....

I will say this though... the law concerning dealers who are required to run backgrounds checks needs to be tweaked.. the" occasional sales" exemption is pretty silly and need ot be better defined, as it allows folks who are in the commercial business of selling firearms to pretend they are not.
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agreed, I have always noted that there are people who should have licenses that do not. and the one point I admitted that the anti gun advocates have is that the gun show makes it convenient for prohibited persons to find a greater selection of private sellers. Of course I also noted that if you are a local convict, you also run a far greater chance of being spotted by a cop who knows your record at a gun show as well
 
Re: NRA Newtown response

upsideguy said:
We agree. I am not against gun shows; just against the loophole that allows people to buy guns there without submitting to background checks. My point was that the Columbine kids used the gun show loophole as an easy method to obtain guns. They would have had a much harder time had background checks been required.
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I believe they got their main weapon from the illegal practice known as a straw purchase from another individual which is not stopped by a background check
 
Re: NRA Newtown response

Eighty Deuce said:
No. A point you have not been able to back up.

Further, Japan is not "gun control". It is essentially "no guns".

A better analogy would be Switzerland, with about half the guns-per-capita as the US. Considering we have many folks with dozens of guns, I would suspect that their armed households per capita is even closer to ours.

And their gun-crime rate is miniscule. It ain't the guns that need control.
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Control has got to begin somewhere. Why are you so opposed to any gun control? It sounds as though you are obsessed with guns. EVERYTHING has to be on the table. Understood? One can not talk about gun control while selectively stating that the issue of guns itself are off the table.
 
Re: NRA Newtown response

Caine said:
What loophole is that?

Never seen it, never heard of it.

Have you ever been to a gun show?
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On one hand, you should not feign ignorance of what I speak. I am pretty sure you know what I am talking about. If not, the Internet is a powerful thing, particularly when explored with a search engine such as Google. Do you have the Internet in your neigborhood? If so, try it (with Google) and you will have all kinds of information at your fingertips...

Gun shows in the United States - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
MMS: Error
Senator Frank R. Lautenberg

In all fairness, I appreciate the argument that gun shows are general venues for FFL dealers, which subject their customers to background checks; and the unchecked transactions involve "private sellers" engaged in "casual sales" (its not their business to sell guns). It is the nature of the private seller and how casual the sale really is that is the problem. An estimated 40% othf the gun market are casual sales.... and I certainly would not want to regulate the private market; though I would want to go after those that really are conducting business but hiding behind the "casual sale" shield.... many are.
 
Re: NRA Newtown response

upsideguy said:
We agree. I am not against gun shows; just against the loophole that allows people to buy guns there without submitting to background checks. My point was that the Columbine kids used the gun show loophole as an easy method to obtain guns. They would have had a much harder time had background checks been required.
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The Columbine kids couldnt pass a background check?
 
Re: NRA Newtown response

TurtleDude said:
every time someone destroys one of your emotobabbles you resort to speaking "for the country" for the masses, and appealing to the group think of the unlearned and the ignorant.

its silly and worthless in debate and is a sign you have lost
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For those of us aware of how laws get passed, public support is very important.
 
Re: NRA Newtown response

You have crazies who prolly couldnt pass a mental check. Then you have evil sociopaths who could probably easily out-think the hurdles. Just sayin'.
 
Re: NRA Newtown response

TaraAnne said:
I have never said less or more guns. Tounge in cheek I said tax the crap out of
them like tabacco. Limit the size of the clips period, then lets address the cuts to mental health issue. The NRA needs to go back to training and safty instead of lobbist. We have 350 million guns and probably many more than that and well it didnt stop this.
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Ridiculous...

You know we could save allot more lives if we taxed the crap out of abortions and not guns.
 
Re: NRA Newtown response

Catawba said:
For those of us aware of how laws get passed, public support is very important.
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Public opposition is important; public support, not so much.
 
Re: NRA Newtown response

hfd said:
That statement is hard to justify while listening to the news. Perhaps we should again ban alcohol or cars. After all drunk drivers kill people. Smoking kills people. Should we ban cigs? Diabetes kills over 68,000. Should we ban sugar and carbs?
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With all due respect your argument is totally a straw man. No one is suggesting that ALL guns be banned but what most Americans feel is that we do not need AR 15 type semi automatic weapons of mass destruction nor do we need magazines that hold 30 rounds. Getting rid of them will REDUCE mass murders but not stop them. It will, in no way whatsoever INCREASE gun murders if they're removed forever from this planet and that is the point.

The evil LePierre wants to spend BILLIONS more on his "solution" but if you ask him and the other NRA'ers if there should be a new tax to pay for it they'll revolt against the tax!
 
Re: NRA Newtown response

Fenton said:
Ridiculous...

You know we could save allot more lives if we taxed the crap out of abortions and not guns.
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So you want everyone to have a the choice to buy guns but not the choice to buy an abortion?
 
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