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NRA Newtown response [W:818]

Re: NRA Newtown response

So gun comapnies that donate to the NRA are considered members? I am a little confused about this. The NRA used to be about it members and gun safty. Now it more of a mouth pieace for gun compnaies. Saying the NRA represents dues paying member to me is a little of a stretch. So where exactly does that 250 million a year go. Bottom line the NRA had a chance to do something big yesterday instead, they want to limit free speech and blame video games and movies. Now if guns dont kill people niether do video games or movies. Which is a stupid comaprison anyway. I was actually waiting on that idiot to start saying we need god back in school. God holding and assult weapon with an NRA logo in the bottom right hand corner. I do not think it a good idea to make schools look like prisons. They whole speech was stupid and made the NRA look like a bunch of asshats. We need real answers not a mad man pounding the desk. The NRA failed yesterday it failed its members and America!

I believe that a Jack Nicholson character said it best, and I paraphrase: "Liberals can't handle the truth".

The last three bigtime shooters, Va Tech, Aurora, and Newtown, were all oddball recluses who were heavily immersed into violent video games. Perhaps you can find for the rest of us similar carnage from the 60's and 70's ? We had lots of guns then too.

In all fairness, when I hear most liberals talk about gun control, I hear nothing but stupidity as well. ;)
 
Re: NRA Newtown response

:roll: Typical. We shouldn't protect our children from gunmen because I Hate Bush.

Given that a resource officer was of little help at Columbine High School, I'm not particularly impressed with your argument.

]Well your guess would be wrong :)

HIGHRes-teachers.jpg



Like all government projects, education has grown a morbidly obese bureaucracy.

To the contrary it shows that you don't know how to read charts. You argued that "administrators" had grown when this chart indicates "non teaching staff" has grown. There are at least a dozen different non administrative jobs that fall in that category including things such as counselors, social workers, custodial staff, library assistants, etc. You just assumed that "non teaching staff" equated to administration.
 
Re: NRA Newtown response

The anti-gunners probably don't mind the existence of these games, probably play them in their basements.

And the uber-gunners rush to the chance to mimic those they decry by blaming inanimate objects they personally have an issue with for killings.

Then again, this is the same group that bitch about federal spending and federal mandates for schools.....and then immediately rush to applaud a call for something that would increase government spending and increase federal involvement in the schools.
 
Re: NRA Newtown response

How many times do we have to repeat this?

There was an armed guard at Columbine.

Nancy Lanza was pretty well armed as well. How'd that work out for her.

The over-whelming majority of parents would never support that at elementary schools. NEVER. (in fact any parent who would support that should get a visit from child services IMO)

Patrols with trained police officers, fine. But those officers' time would be better spent auditing and updating lists of people who are never allowed to own a weapon. Every police department should have an anonymous tip line for people to call in their concerns about gun owners in the community who may have flew under the radar. The police can check public records for domestic abuse, and military records for dishonorable discharge or PTSD.

Will these armed principles and janitors be wearing Kevlar vests? Because all the shooters do.

Do you guys think these things through?

Nancy Lanza was in bed sleeping when her son shot her in the head. Did Ultra Liberal Senator Barbera Boxer think through her proposed Save Our Schools Act that calls for using the National Guard at all public schools? BTW she proposed this act last Tuesday why havn't any of you anti gun nuts mentioned this? That was 3 days before Wayne Lapierre's speech.

Sen. Boxer proposes deploying National Guard at schools - latimes.com
 
Re: NRA Newtown response

There are what.. 120k schools (public and private) in the US. Say on average you need 3 guards per school.. so that 360k guards, who all need to be trained and paid.

Let me ask this... where on earth would you get the money from to pay for this? Most areas can barely keep schools open, and now they have to have paid armed guards for 8+ hours a day, 5 to 7 days a week?

Lets do some math. Lets say these guards will get minimum wage. That they work one hour before school opens to on hour after school closes.. on average.. say 8 hours in total per day on average. They work 5 days a week. Minimum wage is 7.25 dollars... (good luck on getting people to take those jobs btw at that wage.. in high cost of living areas).

So that is 58 bucks a day, 290 bucks a week, 1160 a month. Say that hey only work 300 days a year (no weekends, not on school holidays).. so that would be 17k a year.. per guard. That would be over 6 billion in wages alone.. and that is at minimum wage, something I highly doubt will be enough (especially in high cost of living areas). Add to that administrative costs, healthcare, and equipment.. and of course profit... this will of course be done by the private sector right... so lets say you need 10 billion a year minimum.. more likely 15 to 20 billion a year if not much much higher if you give them healthcare (screw that right?).

So where are struggling school districts, that have cut hours, fired teachers, increased class sizes... find this money? Are people willing to pay higher taxes?
 
Re: NRA Newtown response

Actually, I thought your post to be pretty stupid myself. Now how about adding something to the debate ... or is that a "Conservative" thing ?

I try not to debate with gun people. It's hard to argue with people who worship inanimate objects.
 
Re: NRA Newtown response

Of course you've left out daycare centers, malls, movie theaters, restaurants, fast food joints. In short, any place where people gather.

Sadly the NRA, which used to be a decent organization at one time, is now devoted to protecting the rights of survivalists and people desiring to purchase cop-killer bullets. If they were't so dangerous they'd be a joke.
 
Re: NRA Newtown response

I don't see that happening. You get credit for being an optimist though.


And there are still costs. Mental health exams. Training. Background checks. Equipment. Etc.

Cost ? I think its worth the investment.
 
Re: NRA Newtown response

Of course you've left out daycare centers, malls, movie theaters, restaurants, fast food joints. In short, any place where people gather.

Sadly the NRA, which used to be a decent organization at one time, is now devoted to protecting the rights of survivalists and people desiring to purchase cop-killer bullets. If they were't so dangerous they'd be a joke.


I agree with you that the NRA has gone off into the extreme from where they were once but I think they got this one right. The difference from malls and restaurants is there is a higher percentage of adults than at schools.

Schools are where you might have 20-30 kids per adult. That is a high number of very vulnerable people. With higher number of adults there may more of a chance of some adults taking the charge against an assailant or leading others to safety. Having a safety officer is a set of eyes and ears to not only protect against an armed assailant he may also be a deterrent to a kidnapping of a child. And am not so delusional to think one safety guard can do it all but makes a good effort and may make some moron think twice.

I give credit to the NRA for this but not an enamored with the number of men in their 50's who never served in the military who now feel with a gun they are a Rambo who bark for the NRA.
 
Re: NRA Newtown response

The NRA's message of a national database for the "mentally ill" is exploiting paranoia in order to divert the issue from gun control to eugenics. In so doing, they have traded potentially one negative platform for an evil platform.

If the NRA wants to pick this fight, I for one will oppose them. Eugenic attitudes are in no way comparable to the rights of gun owners.

In comparison with further curbing the rights of these citizens, gun owners come off as a bunch of cry babies.
 
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Re: NRA Newtown response

The NRA's message of a national database for the "mentally ill" is exploiting paranoia in order to divert the issue from gun control to eugenics. In so doing, they have traded potentially one negative platform for an evil platform.

If the NRA wants to pick this fight, I for one will oppose them.

Could you imagine what would happen if the NRA spent just half of the resources they spend on defending everybody's right to carry any weapon anywhere to combating and treating mental illness?
 
Re: NRA Newtown response

Could you imagine what would happen if the NRA spent just half of the resources they spend on defending everybody's right to carry any weapon anywhere to combating and treating mental illness?

I wouldn't want their money going to it. Accepting their resources with that attitude is akin to accepting funds from the Nazis to help end ethnic disparity.

Give me a choice between genocidal rhetoric and controls on weapons and ammo, I'll choose gun control every single time.
 
Re: NRA Newtown response

Cost ? I think its worth the investment.

Meh. If you want fully trained and credentialed resource officers in schools then feel free to argue for it. I can't wait to hear how you plan to pay for it without borrowing money from China or raising taxes.
 
Re: NRA Newtown response

I agree with you that the NRA has gone off into the extreme from where they were once but I think they got this one right. The difference from malls and restaurants is there is a higher percentage of adults than at schools.

Schools are where you might have 20-30 kids per adult. That is a high number of very vulnerable people. With higher number of adults there may more of a chance of some adults taking the charge against an assailant or leading others to safety. Having a safety officer is a set of eyes and ears to not only protect against an armed assailant he may also be a deterrent to a kidnapping of a child. And am not so delusional to think one safety guard can do it all but makes a good effort and may make some moron think twice.

I give credit to the NRA for this but not an enamored with the number of men in their 50's who never served in the military who now feel with a gun they are a Rambo who bark for the NRA.

An armed safety office didn't help a bit at the Columbine school. Why would you think it would make a difference anywhere then? The whole shooting in Newtown was over in 3 minutes. No "safety officer would have been able to stop it either. Those weapons are just too fast and powerful.
 
Re: NRA Newtown response

Meh. If you want fully trained and credentialed resource officers in schools then feel free to argue for it. I can't wait to hear how you plan to pay for it without borrowing money from China or raising taxes.

Gun owners and the gun makers would pay all costs of course. They are the only reason we are even discussing it.
 
Re: NRA Newtown response

Could you imagine what would happen if the NRA spent just half of the resources they spend on defending everybody's right to carry any weapon anywhere to combating and treating mental illness?

Can you imagine how safe and excellent our schools would if if the Federal Government stopped spending so much money on keeping lazy people lazy, and instead focused those resources on protecting and bettering our children !!!!!
 
Re: NRA Newtown response

Meh. If you want fully trained and credentialed resource officers in schools then feel free to argue for it. I can't wait to hear how you plan to pay for it without borrowing money from China or raising taxes.

We essentially do not borrow from China anymore. They have reduced their holdings in bonds from where they were a year ago.

We borrow from our kids now. But we won't spend that money to protect THEM.

The Federal Reserve owns most of our debt. Just takes ink and paper, more or less. Obama money. Look it up. ;)
 
Re: NRA Newtown response

An armed safety office didn't help a bit at the Columbine school. Why would you think it would make a difference anywhere then? The whole shooting in Newtown was over in 3 minutes. No "safety officer would have been able to stop it either. Those weapons are just too fast and powerful.

Actually I think from what I heard the shooter in CT had a load of more ammunition he could have used but hearing the responders arriving he decided to shoot himself.
Just like the killer at the Colorado movie theater. He had body armour on but once the police arrived he turtled. They have no problem being Jesse James againt sitting targets but once they face opposition they crap their panties.
 
Re: NRA Newtown response

An armed safety office didn't help a bit at the Columbine school. Why would you think it would make a difference anywhere then? The whole shooting in Newtown was over in 3 minutes. No "safety officer would have been able to stop it either. Those weapons are just too fast and powerful.

Or Ft. Hood, a freaking military base. Yes, I know, right-wingers, the guys walking around the base were unarmed. But of all places, shouldn't an armed security force be able to respond pretty quickly to stop the situation there? Short of having an armed person in literally every single classroom, how can things be better than they were at Columbine or Ft. Hood?

I also love the facebook meme going around about hiring vets to guard the schools. Hey it will solve the veteran unemployment problem and protect our children! Yeah, because war veterans are known for being such a stable bunch, right? Let's give them a gun and put them around noisy, bratty children every single day!
 
Re: NRA Newtown response

Or Ft. Hood, a freaking military base. Yes, I know, right-wingers, the guys walking around the base were unarmed. But of all places, shouldn't an armed security force be able to respond pretty quickly to stop the situation there? Short of having an armed person in literally every single classroom, how can things be better than they were at Columbine or Ft. Hood?

I also love the facebook meme going around about hiring vets to guard the schools. Hey it will solve the veteran unemployment problem and protect our children! Yeah, because war veterans are known for being such a stable bunch, right? Let's give them a gun and put them around noisy, bratty children every single day!
Maybe if you allowed veterans into society more readily instead of pooping on them more would hold less resentment for society.
 
Re: NRA Newtown response

An armed safety office didn't help a bit at the Columbine school. Why would you
think it would make a difference anywhere then? The whole shooting in Newtown was over in 3 minutes. No "safety officer would have been able to stop it either. Those weapons are just too fast and powerful.

You guys dont get it do you. Criminals and even mentally ill people who can plan out a mass killing do actually take into account enforced security measures including any guard and or presence of a possible farm before going on their rampage.

Guns in the hands of law abiding trained individuals do stop crimes from being commited and prevent crimes from being caried out.

How could anyone come to the conclusion that a armed criminal element against an disarmed law abiding public is a good idea ?
 
Re: NRA Newtown response

You guys dont get it do you. Criminals and even mentally ill people who can plan out a mass killing do actually take into account enforced security measures including any guard and or presence of a possible farm before going on their rampage.

Guns in the hands of law abiding trained individuals do stop crimes from being commited and prevent crimes from being caried out.

How could anyone come to the conclusion that a armed criminal element against an disarmed law abiding public is a good idea ?
Insane, indoctrinated, hyper-emotional people.
 
Re: NRA Newtown response

We can never make schools 100% safe.

That is an absurd argument no one made captain obvious.
If a group of mercenaries pulled up at an elementary school and came rushing in with guns blazing and tossing grenades, yes, the one armed school guard would provide weak opposition. BUT even if he could take one bad guy out or at least provide a speed bump then it may or may not save one young life. I know if I was in charge of protecting a 6 year old I would give my life in attempting to save him or her.

First off, get that movie heroism bullcrap out of your head. The reality is that if there was a group of well trained mercenaries coming to kill school children you would not even be a speed bump. They would catch you off guard or hit the hole in your defenses because a school is not a military compound and it would be easy to capitalize on. you would be hit flat footed and not even have a chance to respond because this is real life and not the movies. trust me on that. I know warriors who can move on prepared people 10 times their numbers and take them down.

Now, that being said why are you still alive? because we have a society and laws, and people have a reason to work together. Assault rifles have nothing to do with that. If you want to do the best you can to protect those kids you pass laws and have people watching those who have guns. You keep guns from hotheads and nutbars. no it won't stop some of them, but it will make it a lot harder for them to do what they do, and it will stop some of them. One thing that does not stop a guy ready to die from attacking is an opponent. The attack happens no matter what, it is just the result that changes.
As to your one statement if my grandson was in that school I do not want to wait until the shooter became " bored and offs himself".

That does not matter at all because the likelihood that you will be there and prepared to fight at that particular moment are nil. Yopu are not going to be watching over him in the school, and even if you could respond the police would not let you into the building because you would do more harm than good. You can prep all you want, but unless you are walking around ready to get into a gunfight every moment of the day you have a weakness that any person bent on killing you can exploit. You want a fighting chance? Then it comes without guns. Then you have a chance to fight to save someone. If a gun is involved you are ineffective.

So this is why I chose stricter regulations on who can buy assault rifles, and the responsibilities those people have for securing them.
 
Re: NRA Newtown response

You guys dont get it do you. Criminals and even mentally ill people who can plan out a mass killing do actually take into account enforced security measures including any guard and or presence of a possible farm before going on their rampage.

Guns in the hands of law abiding trained individuals do stop crimes from being commited and prevent crimes from being caried out.

How could anyone come to the conclusion that a armed criminal element against an disarmed law abiding public is a good idea ?

No, you don't get it. You are not saving anyone. you are not a hero. You are not protecting the world. The reality is that if gunshots started around you and you had an obvious assault rifle you would be dead. Why? because anyone with even the most smallest of brain shoots the armed man first. yeah, you are there with your assault rifle and all that makes you is a gigantic target. If you do survive the police will have trouble telling you from the actual shooter and you will just confuse the situation. That is reality. You need to stop living in the movies. From your perception the gunfire starts and while you are trying to figure out whether or not the shooting is over or still a threat and where to go the killer is moving on and will eventually see you. You don't know what is going on, and you are clearly a scared rabbit ready to twitch fire and frankly I would much rather you not fire. I don't trust your reasoning or abilities. I know you are far more likely to be a danger to the people around you and an interference to law enforcement than saving the day. believe me, you don't want people like me armed around you because you would be one of the people I would take down. If it has a gun and is not a police officer I would waste it. That means you hero boy.
 
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