NRA Newtown response [W:818]

Re: NRA Newtown response

poweRob said:

NRA Newtown response: National program to place armed security in schools

LaPierre in part blamed mass shootings on "vicious, violent video games" such as "Bulletstorm," "Grand Theft Auto," Mortal Kombat" and "Splatterhouse." He also reached back in time to place blame on movies like "American Psycho" and "Natural Born Killers" for portraying "life as a joke and murder as a way of life."​

He went on to say that congress should put armed officers in every school in America. Who'd a thunk that a lobby for gun manufacturing comes up with the solution that we need to sell more guns? What a shocker.

Anywhoo... I find it interesting that he chose to put a stupidity rift on this issue between his lobbying for the gun manufacturing industry and the video game, movie and music industries. He made it appear as "Guns? it's not gu.... LOOK OVER THERE!"

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Great all for what he said first lets pay for this by adding a 50% tax on all fire arms, 30% clips, 25% on ammo.! Then we can look at the license fees what a 1500 a gun. I think if the NRA wants to play this game. The government can play thiers. After all the only reason the NRA is saying this is to strike fear in people and sell more guns. So lets make it so expensive that no one can afford the damn things. Pretty much like tabacco.

Re: NRA Newtown response

Eighty Deuce said:

LOL <<<<< see that ? It says that I am laughing at your post. I think you not quite accurate. to put it mildly

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Well, given that you have only argued so far that I am wrong because you say I am wrong, I'll defer to the obvious.

Re: NRA Newtown response

Catawba said:

You'll have to take that up with Eighty deuce, - "There are countries without the "no gun" laws, who in fact have lots of guns, but have uber-lower gun crime than the U.S."

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as usual you are misrepresenting what he said, I was merely noting your post was dishonest (yet again)

Re: NRA Newtown response

obvious Child said:

Mental Health in America only goes as far as the families of those getting help until they pose a direct threat in which you can have them committed. Many families don't take that next necessary step. Are these people getting some help? Yes. Are they getting the help they really need as well as removing them as a threat from the rest of the population? Clearly No.

It is patently wrong to blame violent games, porn or guns for the problem here. If those were the problem, we should be seeing far more mass violence by mentally stable people. We simply do not.

The problem is mental healthcare in America. Fix that and you fix most of the mass shooting crimes.

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So now the standard is "committed" ? That was not your earlier argument, and as they say "good luck with that" ..... :roll:

Re: NRA Newtown response

Eighty Deuce said:

Read my earlier posts. Chock full of links and arguments. You were debunked before you even posted.

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You don't even know my arguments. You haven't even addressed a single one of them. You simply stated I was wrong without providing a lick of rational.

Re: NRA Newtown response

Eighty Deuce said:

False analogy. The contest is not to see who has more. It is to compare us with similar countries with regard to gun ownership and crime.

Look at Switzerland, for starters. Explain that.

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Crime is not what Americans are agonizing over, it is the needless slaughter of innocent people by cowards with guns.

Re: NRA Newtown response

Zyphlin said:

Ugg, pathetic.

Both sides make me sick.

One rushes to blame guns and now the NRA rushes to ****ing blame video games and movies.

****'em both.

Its **** like this that makes it clear that while I don't agree with most of those fighting the battle of "gun control", I don't buy that the NRA is some protectors of the constitution. They're no different than the other side...they just give a crap about the rights that suit them politically.

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It's so ****ing polarized you can't hold a conversation at all. I think the NRA is a douche organization but I don't think all guns should be banned but in this thread, just because I noted that I don't care for the NRA I've been automatically put in a category I'm not in. It's an impossible topic to broach.

Re: NRA Newtown response

Catawba said:

Crime is not what Americans are agonizing over, it is the needless slaughter of innocent people by cowards with guns.

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OK. Compare "slaughters" then. Do you need a hankie ?

Re: NRA Newtown response

Catawba said:

Crime is not what Americans are agonizing over, it is the needless slaughter of innocent people by cowards with guns.

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that's a crime

DUH

Re: NRA Newtown response

poweRob said:

It's so ****ing polarized you can't hold a conversation at all. I think the NRA is a douche organization but I don't think all guns should be banned but in this thread, just because I noted that I don't care for the NRA I've been automatically put in a category I'm not in. It's an impossible topic to broach.

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I feel for you. I'm in the category of "more guns or less guns is not really a solution" and that seems to automatically put me in the "gun control" category.

Re: NRA Newtown response

Eighty Deuce said:

So now the standard is "committed" ? That was not your earlier argument, and as they say "good luck with that" ..... :roll:

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Nope. You're just making stuff up. Families need to be educated about potential risks and proper agencies need to be informed about such mental issues, including serious red flags.

We either do this, or we tolerate more kids betting shot in cold blood.

Take your pick.

Re: NRA Newtown response

TurtleDude said:

that's a crime

DUH

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I see, you have trouble differentiating a robbery with the slaughter of innocent people. Thanks for the info. That helps explain a lot!

Re: NRA Newtown response

Eighty Deuce said:

So what is different from the 50's and 60's to now ? The guns ?

I don't think so.

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Parents...from the amount of time focused on the kids, to the type of child rearing occurring, to the types of messages that are provided to the children and the type of accountability they're given?Similarly, schools themselves and the change in mentality, discipline structure, and regarding messages of responsibility? Not to mention increase in class sizes, reducing the individual attention and chance for something to be noticed and also increasing the potential for more targets close together. Free flowing and readily available information contributing to a generalized heightening of knowledge and a feeling of "maturity" in kids due to it? Narcissistic outlets of communication that enhance the ability for an egocentric mindset to set in? More and more reliance on medication and drugs within the younger generation? More readily available news, making the knowledge of such incidents become more commonly in grained in peoples minds, allowing people to know they'll be talked about and focused on if they did this, and allowing all of us to hear about them happening in instances where no one outside of the local area may've heard about it 30 or 40 years ago? Change in mentality of the adults and even sometimes the "kids" in such situations in terms of taking action to try and stop the situation?

But no...no you're right, clearly it's violent movies and games.

Re: NRA Newtown response

Sometimes art does better than rambling text in getting a message across



And ditto for those to ignorant to realize they're only able to attempt to damage the 2nd thanks to people not doing the same type of things to the 1st

Re: NRA Newtown response

Catawba said:

I see, you have trouble differentiating a robbery with the slaughter of innocent people. Thanks for the info. That helps explain a lot!

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actually as someone who spent some time prosecuting crimes I suspect I am far better educated than you are on this subject and you differentiating one type of crime from another does not make something other than robbery not a crime

Re: NRA Newtown response

CriticalThought said:

I feel for you. I'm in the category of "more guns or less guns is not really a solution" and that seems to automatically put me in the "gun control" category.

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I'm not surprised by it. It's why I tend to stay the hell out of the gun forum. Everyone wears their asses on their shoulders and there is no budgeing whatsoever.

Re: NRA Newtown response

Catawba said:

I see, you have trouble differentiating a robbery with the slaughter of innocent people. Thanks for the info. That helps explain a lot!

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BTW again you have dishonestly misinterpreted what I said

I said someone slaughtering people is a crime

and you claim that meant I cannot differentiate murder from robbery

that is dishonest and reprehensible. why do you engage in so much dishonesty?

Re: NRA Newtown response

Zyphlin said:

Parents...from the amount of time focused on the kids, to the type of child rearing occurring, to the types of messages that are provided to the children and the type of accountability they're given?Similarly, schools themselves and the change in mentality, discipline structure, and regarding messages of responsibility? Not to mention increase in class sizes, reducing the individual attention and chance for something to be noticed and also increasing the potential for more targets close together. Free flowing and readily available information contributing to a generalized heightening of knowledge and a feeling of "maturity" in kids due to it? Narcissistic outlets of communication that enhance the ability for an egocentric mindset to set in? More and more reliance on medication and drugs within the younger generation? More readily available news, making the knowledge of such incidents become more commonly in grained in peoples minds, allowing people to know they'll be talked about and focused on if they did this, and allowing all of us to hear about them happening in instances where no one outside of the local area may've heard about it 30 or 40 years ago? Change in mentality of the adults and even sometimes the "kids" in such situations in terms of taking action to try and stop the situation?

But no...no you're right, clearly it's violent movies and games.

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I agree...kids are now taught life is about self esteem and feeling good not about self control and delaying gratification.

Kids now crave immediate gratification and ego stroking to an extent never before seen in American culture.

Re: NRA Newtown response

CriticalThought said:

I feel for you. I'm in the category of "more guns or less guns is not really a solution" and that seems to automatically put me in the "gun control" category.

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I'm of the feeling that "Guns" in any direction is somewhat missing the point and is basically leapt to in these types of situations by both sides not for any actual empathetic care for the victims or noble need to stop it from happening in the future but rather for their own pathetic base political desires. The dead bodies are nothing but tools in the eyes of these people.

One side rants and raves about "assault weapon bans" not because it'd do a damn thing (note, the most famous school massacre? Occurred during the last "assault weapons ban" period). To them these things are nothing but an opportunity to continue to push their point they've been pushing since the AWB expired...this just gives them cover to do it yet again. The killer could've used a 6 shooter or muzzle loader and I guarantee we'd still be hearing about an "assault weapon ban".

The other side rightly points out that even if you took away guns, those who want to kill will find other ways. Then they make themselves look like ****ing idiots by ranting about "See, these happen in places where guns aren't allowed. These wouldn't happen if we just let guns in those places" which basically is a statement that is so incoherently stupid in relation to the previous statement that it hurts my head to imagine that thinking rational people actually put it forth. "If we take away their guns, killers will find a way to still kill...but if we give other people guns, killers will apparently just give up trying to kill and not attempt to find another way to be successful".

Seriously, both sides can go sit on a nail.

Re: NRA Newtown response

obvious Child said:

Nope. You're just making stuff up. Families need to be educated about potential risks and proper agencies need to be informed about such mental issues, including serious red flags.

We either do this, or we tolerate more kids betting shot in cold blood.

Take your pick.

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Nope. What you suggest is completely unrealistic. Do you think that either Aurora or Newtown would have been "committed" under some new system ?

Re: NRA Newtown response

TurtleDude said:

I said someone slaughtering people is a crime

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You implied that all crime was the same. That is where we differ.

Re: NRA Newtown response

Catawba said:

You implied that all crime was the same. That is where we differ.

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another dishonest lie and misrepresentation

Re: NRA Newtown response

Zyphlin said:

Parents...from the amount of time focused on the kids, to the type of child rearing occurring, to the types of messages that are provided to the children and the type of accountability they're given?Similarly, schools themselves and the change in mentality, discipline structure, and regarding messages of responsibility? Not to mention increase in class sizes, reducing the individual attention and chance for something to be noticed and also increasing the potential for more targets close together. Free flowing and readily available information contributing to a generalized heightening of knowledge and a feeling of "maturity" in kids due to it? Narcissistic outlets of communication that enhance the ability for an egocentric mindset to set in? More and more reliance on medication and drugs within the younger generation? More readily available news, making the knowledge of such incidents become more commonly in grained in peoples minds, allowing people to know they'll be talked about and focused on if they did this, and allowing all of us to hear about them happening in instances where no one outside of the local area may've heard about it 30 or 40 years ago? Change in mentality of the adults and even sometimes the "kids" in such situations in terms of taking action to try and stop the situation?

But no...no you're right, clearly it's violent movies and games.

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I never limited the reasons to "violent movies and games". And neither did the NRA. They, and I, listed examples of the decay of the family, and of society in general. I have a few posts in this thread, btw, and I mirror more than a few of your points above.

You did slay your strawman though.

Re: NRA Newtown response

The NRA may've not limited to that, but they choose to make that their focus which is the ridiculous part. Even if we accept the premise that Violent Movies or Video Games substantially impacts (substantially enough to warrant being greatly singled out by the NRA) people to help create these kind of incidents, it still isn't worthy of such condemnation because the far greater point would be the PARENTS who allow their children to partake in such things. However, by focusing on such ridiculous things as blaming Video Games and Movies the NRA is highlighting the apparent feeling that society or the government should be taking the steps to "parent" children rather than putting it on the parents. It's amazing that apparently "guns don't kill people" but violent video games do. Did they say that directly? No, but they said it in the same general vain that anti-gun people say it about guns which causes the NRA types to launch the critique of "guns don't kill people", so the label fits.

Re: NRA Newtown response

TurtleDude said:

actually as someone who spent some time prosecuting crimes I suspect I am far better educated than you are on this subject and you differentiating one type of crime from another does not make something other than robbery not a crime

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You would think so, thats exactly why I question your frequent claims to be an attorney. You have provided zero evidence of being better educated in your debates with me.