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NRA Newtown response [W:818]
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Re: NRA Newtown response
Thank you for clearly representing the intellect of the right. Well done!
Thank you for clearly representing the intellect of the right. Well done!
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Re: NRA Newtown response
cops and teachers tend to be similar. the jobs pay about the same and I expect the academic records in HS are about the same. I can teach most people with an average IQ and average physical skills to out shoot most cops in less than two days. in fact I taught a boy who had NO firearms experience prior to being trained by me to qualify as expert in both handgun (Beretta 92/M9) and a M16A2 at the USNA. I suspect (based on 35 years of competitive shooting) that most urban police could not do that
cops and teachers tend to be similar. the jobs pay about the same and I expect the academic records in HS are about the same. I can teach most people with an average IQ and average physical skills to out shoot most cops in less than two days. in fact I taught a boy who had NO firearms experience prior to being trained by me to qualify as expert in both handgun (Beretta 92/M9) and a M16A2 at the USNA. I suspect (based on 35 years of competitive shooting) that most urban police could not do that
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Re: NRA Newtown response
sadly, in our country, many teachers became teachers to avoid serving (at least when I was a kid)
sadly, in our country, many teachers became teachers to avoid serving (at least when I was a kid)
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Re: NRA Newtown response
I'm going to enjoy watching conservative gun nuts argue that the government needs to spend $8 billion a year putting police in every school in the country while at the same time arguing for "smaller government" and "deficit reduction".
I'm going to enjoy watching conservative gun nuts argue that the government needs to spend $8 billion a year putting police in every school in the country while at the same time arguing for "smaller government" and "deficit reduction".
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Re: NRA Newtown response
Well there is one little flaw in your argument Hans. No gun. No bullets, no mass killing.
Wow, that was easy.
See Canada. See Japan. See any civilized country with stricter gun controls.
Next.
Well there is one little flaw in your argument Hans. No gun. No bullets, no mass killing.
Wow, that was easy.
See Canada. See Japan. See any civilized country with stricter gun controls.
Next.
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Re: NRA Newtown response
No one claimed armed teachers would guarantee a nullification of a massacre. But that it MIGHT help. I say you need to be reported to CPS for allowing your kid to leave your guardianship into a Gun Free Zone where they become fish in a barrel. /sarcasm on reporting you but you should get the point
No one claimed armed teachers would guarantee a nullification of a massacre. But that it MIGHT help. I say you need to be reported to CPS for allowing your kid to leave your guardianship into a Gun Free Zone where they become fish in a barrel. /sarcasm on reporting you but you should get the point
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Re: NRA Newtown response
Well there you have it. A righty talking **** about teachers? Color me stunned!
Well there you have it. A righty talking **** about teachers? Color me stunned!
Harry Guerrilla
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Re: NRA Newtown response
I know for a fact that Japan has had nerve gas attacks.
You don't need a gun to have a mass attack.
I know for a fact that Japan has had nerve gas attacks.
You don't need a gun to have a mass attack.
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Re: NRA Newtown response
Yup. We're down with that. One thing ya'll don't seem to realize is that "restricted government" is not the same as "anarchy". Security (domestic and foriegn) is one of the few truly necessary jobs of government.
However, the number of school administrators has shot up, way ahead of teachers, in the last couple of decades. We don't even need to increase spending - cut off some of our useless fat, and send those salaries the way of our First Responders. Or, hire trained individuals to fill those roles to begin with.
Yup. We're down with that. One thing ya'll don't seem to realize is that "restricted government" is not the same as "anarchy". Security (domestic and foriegn) is one of the few truly necessary jobs of government.
However, the number of school administrators has shot up, way ahead of teachers, in the last couple of decades. We don't even need to increase spending - cut off some of our useless fat, and send those salaries the way of our First Responders. Or, hire trained individuals to fill those roles to begin with.
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Re: NRA Newtown response
You got one massive flaw there. There are countries without the "no gun" laws, who in fact have lots of guns, but have uber-lower gun crime than the U.S. If you cut off every man's penis, you could claim birth control worked too. But that is not birth control as we will have to craft such. Just as Japan is not a model we will achieve.
It ain't the guns.
You got one massive flaw there. There are countries without the "no gun" laws, who in fact have lots of guns, but have uber-lower gun crime than the U.S. If you cut off every man's penis, you could claim birth control worked too. But that is not birth control as we will have to craft such. Just as Japan is not a model we will achieve.
It ain't the guns.
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Re: NRA Newtown response
Yup, I got that from the Bush years. Whenever conservatives want to spend a virtually unlimited amount of money with no end in sight, they use the term "national security" to justify it even if it goes against evidence or is based on faulty intelligence.
Um...yeah I don't think that is true at all, but I would love to see your data. My guess is that your augment is completely based on anecdotal evidence from your own particular district and is not representative of the country at all.
Yup, I got that from the Bush years. Whenever conservatives want to spend a virtually unlimited amount of money with no end in sight, they use the term "national security" to justify it even if it goes against evidence or is based on faulty intelligence.
Um...yeah I don't think that is true at all, but I would love to see your data. My guess is that your augment is completely based on anecdotal evidence from your own particular district and is not representative of the country at all.
Fenton
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Re: NRA Newtown response
Your attack on the NRA is text book knee jerk anti gun nonsense. As if they had ANYTHING to do with some lunatic on a killing spree.
Your lack of prior NRA threads just reinforces my assertion that it's politics that motivates you, not a sincere concern over how to prevent these types of attacks from happening again.
Liberals are good about supporting initiatives that DON'T work or don't have any tangible outcome, it's not about results it's about the intentions.
For every disgusting remark made about the Tea Party or lie concocted about Conservative positions or Hyperbolic insults and trumped up accusations about the previous President you guys are really good at exposing your true character and proving time and time again that to be a die hard liberal one must first remove all pretense of integrity. That's not hyperbole that's truth.
You quit counting dead American soldiers right after 2008, the media who's "objective" stopped covering some no name know nothing bitch who used her dead soldier son to gain attention and popularity, you ignore the massive deficit spending and a sinking economy under a incompetent President who's responsible for a shrinking labor force and a record number of people dependent on hand outs.....
And you still blame Bush..Unbelievable.
You ignore a obvious cover-up involving our dead Ambassador ( if it was Bush you guys would have impeached him buy now ) and lay claim to a GDP that's increasing solely because of massive Govt expenditures.
No more nonsense about Halliburton who actually received their first "no bid contract" under Clinton's administration in his Kosovo redirect or blood for oil threads as you weigh a soldiers blood depending on the Political position of the current administration.
So if I don't believe your "sincerity", just know I have a good reason not to.
Your attack on the NRA is text book knee jerk anti gun nonsense. As if they had ANYTHING to do with some lunatic on a killing spree.
Your lack of prior NRA threads just reinforces my assertion that it's politics that motivates you, not a sincere concern over how to prevent these types of attacks from happening again.
Liberals are good about supporting initiatives that DON'T work or don't have any tangible outcome, it's not about results it's about the intentions.
For every disgusting remark made about the Tea Party or lie concocted about Conservative positions or Hyperbolic insults and trumped up accusations about the previous President you guys are really good at exposing your true character and proving time and time again that to be a die hard liberal one must first remove all pretense of integrity. That's not hyperbole that's truth.
You quit counting dead American soldiers right after 2008, the media who's "objective" stopped covering some no name know nothing bitch who used her dead soldier son to gain attention and popularity, you ignore the massive deficit spending and a sinking economy under a incompetent President who's responsible for a shrinking labor force and a record number of people dependent on hand outs.....
And you still blame Bush..Unbelievable.
You ignore a obvious cover-up involving our dead Ambassador ( if it was Bush you guys would have impeached him buy now ) and lay claim to a GDP that's increasing solely because of massive Govt expenditures.
No more nonsense about Halliburton who actually received their first "no bid contract" under Clinton's administration in his Kosovo redirect or blood for oil threads as you weigh a soldiers blood depending on the Political position of the current administration.
So if I don't believe your "sincerity", just know I have a good reason not to.
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Re: NRA Newtown response
Actually you are incorrect
The majority of Canadians want less Gun Control. Not more of it. As a % of the population, gun related crime Canada has actually risen since they passed Gun Control Laws in the late 70s. Same thing happened in Australia. Home Invasions alone were up 70%. In the UK gun violence per 100K citizens is more than 2K, while in the United States it's less than 500.
Criminals don't follow gun laws :2wave:
Actually you are incorrect
The majority of Canadians want less Gun Control. Not more of it. As a % of the population, gun related crime Canada has actually risen since they passed Gun Control Laws in the late 70s. Same thing happened in Australia. Home Invasions alone were up 70%. In the UK gun violence per 100K citizens is more than 2K, while in the United States it's less than 500.
Criminals don't follow gun laws :2wave:
MaggieD
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Re: NRA Newtown response
Well, think about it. I'll bet we spend millions protecting just one school from fire, special fire doors, flame-retardant materials, concrete walls and floors, alarms on every floor wired to the fire department, sprinkler systems, smoke and flame detectors, etc., etc.
At the least, can we not secure our school buildings? Ballastic glass on the front entrance...a part-time cop to man the entrance at the beginning of the school day and run the students through metal detectors...(they already do this in many inner-city schools in Chicago and other large cities)...alarms wired directly to cop stations when doors are breached or an attempt is made...wired alarms in every classroom...secure steel doors at every classroom entrance with ballastic glass -- to be locked when class is in session...I could think of many more fixes that would slow down the likes of our Connecticut embecile that would allow for prepared emergency response from LEOs -- and that wouldn't even REQUIRE one person armed in the school.
I'd actually be more for those fixes than having an armed person in the school whose job was to be utterly bored 99.999999999999% of the time and be expected to be a Ninja in a heartbeat.
Well, think about it. I'll bet we spend millions protecting just one school from fire, special fire doors, flame-retardant materials, concrete walls and floors, alarms on every floor wired to the fire department, sprinkler systems, smoke and flame detectors, etc., etc.
At the least, can we not secure our school buildings? Ballastic glass on the front entrance...a part-time cop to man the entrance at the beginning of the school day and run the students through metal detectors...(they already do this in many inner-city schools in Chicago and other large cities)...alarms wired directly to cop stations when doors are breached or an attempt is made...wired alarms in every classroom...secure steel doors at every classroom entrance with ballastic glass -- to be locked when class is in session...I could think of many more fixes that would slow down the likes of our Connecticut embecile that would allow for prepared emergency response from LEOs -- and that wouldn't even REQUIRE one person armed in the school.
I'd actually be more for those fixes than having an armed person in the school whose job was to be utterly bored 99.999999999999% of the time and be expected to be a Ninja in a heartbeat.
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Re: NRA Newtown response
Who was not in the school. Harris and Klebold knew this. When on a suicide mission, who gives a crap about a cop, or guard, who is on the outside. OBTW, the guard did get a shot off outside at Harris. And missed.
That's plain stupid. The enemy within got her .... duh !
Got a link ? I claim different. I think that you are wrong. We have colleges that used to not allow campus police to pack heat. After shootings at VA Tech, and Northern Illinois, both changed their policies.
Connecticut had the fourth most restrictive gun laws of all states already. Lanza was not wearing Kevlar, btw. You still get knocked down, btw.
Oh the irony :roll:
Who was not in the school. Harris and Klebold knew this. When on a suicide mission, who gives a crap about a cop, or guard, who is on the outside. OBTW, the guard did get a shot off outside at Harris. And missed.
That's plain stupid. The enemy within got her .... duh !
Got a link ? I claim different. I think that you are wrong. We have colleges that used to not allow campus police to pack heat. After shootings at VA Tech, and Northern Illinois, both changed their policies.
Connecticut had the fourth most restrictive gun laws of all states already. Lanza was not wearing Kevlar, btw. You still get knocked down, btw.
Oh the irony :roll:
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Re: NRA Newtown response
There are plenty of retired marines and police officers who would gladly volunteer :2wave:
There are plenty of retired marines and police officers who would gladly volunteer :2wave:
Harry Guerrilla
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Re: NRA Newtown response
We could do that, but no one is really going to do that.
At the end of the day, the inconvenient stuff doesn't happen.
That's why the knee jerk response is a gun ban, it's politically convenient and gives the guise of doing something.
When it does very little.
Well, think about it. I'll bet we spend millions protecting just one school from fire, special fire doors, flame-retardant materials, concrete walls and floors, alarms on every floor wired to the fire department, sprinkler systems, smoke and flame detectors, etc., etc.
At the least, can we not secure our school buildings? Ballastic glass on the front entrance...a part-time cop to man the entrance at the beginning of the school day and run the students through metal detectors...(they already do this in many inner-city schools in Chicago and other large cities)...alarms wired directly to cop stations when doors are breached or an attempt is made...wired alarms in every classroom...secure steel doors at every classroom entrance with ballastic glass -- to be locked when class is in session...I could think of many more fixes that would slow down the likes of our Connecticut embecile that would allow for prepared emergency response from LEOs -- and that wouldn't even REQUIRE one person armed in the school.
I'd actually be more for those fixes than having an armed person in the school whose job was to be utterly bored 99.999999999999% of the time and be expected to be a Ninja in a heartbeat.
We could do that, but no one is really going to do that.
At the end of the day, the inconvenient stuff doesn't happen.
That's why the knee jerk response is a gun ban, it's politically convenient and gives the guise of doing something.
When it does very little.
MaggieD
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Re: NRA Newtown response
That's the "NO BRAIN" anti gun response. Libs and their one dimensional world. Libs and their superficial intellects.
Guns are here to stay, whether legal or illegal.
So your best effort is to make them completely illegal in a Country of over 300 million, that doesn't protect it's Southern border and create a huge black market, create more crime and disarm law abiding citizens so THEY, not the thugs can be the new victims of gun violence by outlaws that don't adhere to the current gun laws already in place....
Smart...
Next.
That's the "NO BRAIN" anti gun response. Libs and their one dimensional world. Libs and their superficial intellects.
Guns are here to stay, whether legal or illegal.
So your best effort is to make them completely illegal in a Country of over 300 million, that doesn't protect it's Southern border and create a huge black market, create more crime and disarm law abiding citizens so THEY, not the thugs can be the new victims of gun violence by outlaws that don't adhere to the current gun laws already in place....
Smart...
Next.
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Re: NRA Newtown response
I don't see that happening. You get credit for being an optimist though.
And there are still costs. Mental health exams. Training. Background checks. Equipment. Etc.
I don't see that happening. You get credit for being an optimist though.
And there are still costs. Mental health exams. Training. Background checks. Equipment. Etc.
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Re: NRA Newtown response
It would appear that the liberals don't give one crap about solving the problem.
Every federal building worth a hoot, many college campuses, every politician and big-shot worth a crap ... they have armed protection.
But no. Not the children .... because "it'll cost too much". Meanwhile, Obama puts 17 million more folks on Food stamps. Seems that didn't "cost too much" !! He extended unemployment benefits enough to put a SWAT Team in every school !
It would appear that the liberals don't give one crap about solving the problem.
Every federal building worth a hoot, many college campuses, every politician and big-shot worth a crap ... they have armed protection.
But no. Not the children .... because "it'll cost too much". Meanwhile, Obama puts 17 million more folks on Food stamps. Seems that didn't "cost too much" !! He extended unemployment benefits enough to put a SWAT Team in every school !
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Re: NRA Newtown response
They've already gone though all that being retired Police Officers and Marines.
Gun Control doesn't work. The Justice Department under Clinton commissioned the University of PA to do a study. The conclusion is beyond refute.
http://www.sas.upenn.edu/jerrylee/research/aw_final2004.pdf
Guns are just a scapegoat for emotional reactionaries who want to take away Individual Rights. It's a mob tactic.
They've already gone though all that being retired Police Officers and Marines.
Gun Control doesn't work. The Justice Department under Clinton commissioned the University of PA to do a study. The conclusion is beyond refute.
http://www.sas.upenn.edu/jerrylee/research/aw_final2004.pdf
Guns are just a scapegoat for emotional reactionaries who want to take away Individual Rights. It's a mob tactic.
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Re: NRA Newtown response
I'm not sure how choosing an option that could create a vast number of unintended consequences is supposed to solve the problem. Usually solving a problem does not involve creating more problems.
Which until the Connecticut shooting and subsequent gun debate were all government jobs that conservatives wanted to cut to reduce the size of the government and deficit but which have now apparantly become vitally important to national security.
I think you need to check your figures.
I'm not sure how choosing an option that could create a vast number of unintended consequences is supposed to solve the problem. Usually solving a problem does not involve creating more problems.
Which until the Connecticut shooting and subsequent gun debate were all government jobs that conservatives wanted to cut to reduce the size of the government and deficit but which have now apparantly become vitally important to national security.
I think you need to check your figures.
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Re: NRA Newtown response
Actually, I believe that a compromise can be worked out. Limit high capacity clips, re-institute the assault weapons ban, and mandate background checks in all cases, including at gun shows. In addition, unless there are extraordinary circumstances, I believe a 3 day waiting period would be in order.
I have been torn on this issue for quite some time, and up until a couple of days ago, was against any restrictions at all. But I have been forced to moderate my position after reading about what happened in Australia, which also used to have it's share of mass shootings. In 1995, the Australian government instituted exactly the laws I described in the preceding paragraph, after a mass shooting in a town there called, believe it or not, Newtown, in Tasmania. There has not been a single mass shooting since 1995, when the laws were enacted.
For me, it is one thing to hold fast to a position, no matter what, and another to, based on actual evidence, to moderate my position. Based on what happened in Australia, I now believe gun violence, while not being eliminated here in the US, can be tamped down significantly.
The way I see it now, the only reason someone should own an assault rifle with a high capacity clip to defend himself with is if he is an extremely horrible shot, in which case he has no business owning a gun at all. But he still has the Second Amendment on his side, and I pity those other people who are in his vicinity when he begins firing at a perpetrator. As for me, when he starts firing, I'm running for the hills. LOL.
Redress said:
Actually, I believe that a compromise can be worked out. Limit high capacity clips, re-institute the assault weapons ban, and mandate background checks in all cases, including at gun shows. In addition, unless there are extraordinary circumstances, I believe a 3 day waiting period would be in order.
I have been torn on this issue for quite some time, and up until a couple of days ago, was against any restrictions at all. But I have been forced to moderate my position after reading about what happened in Australia, which also used to have it's share of mass shootings. In 1995, the Australian government instituted exactly the laws I described in the preceding paragraph, after a mass shooting in a town there called, believe it or not, Newtown, in Tasmania. There has not been a single mass shooting since 1995, when the laws were enacted.
For me, it is one thing to hold fast to a position, no matter what, and another to, based on actual evidence, to moderate my position. Based on what happened in Australia, I now believe gun violence, while not being eliminated here in the US, can be tamped down significantly.
The way I see it now, the only reason someone should own an assault rifle with a high capacity clip to defend himself with is if he is an extremely horrible shot, in which case he has no business owning a gun at all. But he still has the Second Amendment on his side, and I pity those other people who are in his vicinity when he begins firing at a perpetrator. As for me, when he starts firing, I'm running for the hills. LOL.