• This is a political forum that is non-biased/non-partisan and treats every person's position on topics equally. This debate forum is not aligned to any political party. In today's politics, many ideas are split between and even within all the political parties. Often we find ourselves agreeing on one platform but some topics break our mold. We are here to discuss them in a civil political debate. If this is your first visit to our political forums, be sure to check out the RULES. Registering for debate politics is necessary before posting. Register today to participate - it's free!

Boehner Cancels Tax Vote in Face of G.O.P. Revolt

Re: Plan B' Vote Spiked In House In Major Setback For Boehner

With all due respect to the OP and the pony, it's what needed to happen.

It's kind of weird to be on the same page with John Dean (albeit for different reasons) but the outcome is what we're after anyway, right?

If we simply let EGTRRA and JGTRRA expire then tax rates will go up to where Clinton had them and that, I seem to remember being told, was the point in this countries history where were were the most fiscally sound. If that's the Democrat story then let them own it but by golly you're going to own it all!

When that hard working single mother of 3 comes in to get her takes done and finds out that she's only getting free money to the tune of $2500 instead of the $5000 she's used to I'm going to be the first to tell her that this is exactly what life was like when America was at it's most prosperous. When that little old grandma comes in asks me why she has to pay so much money on the sale of the stock she uses to live on I'll tell her the same thing. When that 35 year old couple who both just broke through the $40k/yr threshold and are looking at starting to put money away for their daughters college stare at me blankly as I explain why they have to pay AMT instead I'll tell them "it's because this is what's best for America. Isn't is nice to be able to chip in your fair share?"

Oh, and when I tell my high roller clients that their balance sheets look good but their income sure took a hit they'll just grin.
 
Moot said:
That clown Boehner's Plan B was so ridiculous that not even the extremists in his own party would for it. What was he thinking? Boehner obviously must have thought he had the votes, but no. So instead of doing his job and sticking it out to negotiate something that could at least get 45 votes from his own party to pass (if got the Dems came on board), he tucks his tail between legs and scurry's home to cry his drunken eyes out, leaving the country to slide into another recession.....



Boehner Cancels Tax Vote in Face of G.O.P. Revolt

...House Republican leaders abruptly canceled a vote on the bill after they failed to rally enough votes for passage in an emergency meeting about 8 p.m. Within minutes, dejected Republicans filed out of the basement meeting room and declared there would be no votes to avert the “fiscal cliff” until after Christmas. With his “Plan B” all but dead, the speaker was left with the choice to find a new Republican way forward or to try to get a broad deficit reduction deal with President Obama that could win passage with Republican and Democratic votes.

What he could not do was blame Democrats for failing to take up legislation he could not even get through his own membership in the House...read

http://www.nytimes.com/2012/12/21/u...boehners-backup-plan.html?partner=rss&emc=rss
Click to expand...

The "rest of the story" is probably something a bit different.

"See, Mr. President, I couldn't even bring my party together to vote for this. You are going to have to compromise."

In Congress, things are seldom as clear-cut as you would believe....most especially in this instance.
 
Re: Plan B' Vote Spiked In House In Major Setback For Boehner

tech30528 said:
Do you even do any research or do you just blindly follow Obama's tweets?
Click to expand...


Never read an obamas tweet have you ?...but since you made a failed attempt at insult...let me say this...you need to go read whats actually going on and stop just putting out what you want it to be, thats why all those republicans were shocked stunned and shat themselves when they got their asskicked during the election...they just happily and dumbly just lalala'd around believing whatever it was they wanted to....The gop is in trouble many republican experts agree and are TELLING THEM they need to re invent the brand...they cannot give the perception anymore they are the part of the rich for the rich attack the middle class...now go read and find out for yourself.
 
Re: Plan B' Vote Spiked In House In Major Setback For Boehner

tech30528 said:
Do you even do any research or do you just blindly follow Obama's tweets?
Click to expand...

That's what liberals do, blindly follow their Marxist leaders.

It'll be fun to listen to what Rush Limbaugh has to say about Democrats and the fiscal cliff today. I can't wait.
 
Re: Plan B' Vote Spiked In House In Major Setback For Boehner

johnny_rebson said:
That's what liberals do, blindly follow their Marxist leaders.

It'll be fun to listen to what Rush Limbaugh has to say about Democrats and the fiscal cliff today. I can't wait.
Click to expand...

Actually your precious GOP is idiotically falling into the hands of Obama. With the automatic tax increase happening after a "fiscal cliff" (which it really isn't since we fell off it years ago), all the Dems have to do is propose a tax decrease (like the GOP so called agrees with) on the middle and lower class.

If the GOP doesn't go along with a tax decrease, they look like liars and will soon be voted out. If the GOP goes along with it, they will be doing what Obama wants.

The GOP is in a lose/lose scenario. This country is failing because people will not stop serving their Dem/Rep Masters.
 
Re: Plan B' Vote Spiked In House In Major Setback For Boehner

TheNextEra said:
Actually your precious GOP is idiotically falling into the hands of Obama. With the automatic tax increase happening after a "fiscal cliff" (which it really isn't since we fell off it years ago), all the Dems have to do is propose a tax decrease (like the GOP so called agrees with) on the middle and lower class.

If the GOP doesn't go along with a tax decrease, they look like liars and will soon be voted out. If the GOP goes along with it, they will be doing what Obama wants.

The GOP is in a lose/lose scenario.
Click to expand...

Wouldn't the Dems then have to admit that increasing taxes will cause a recession? Isn't that contrary to their mantra?
 
Re: Plan B' Vote Spiked In House In Major Setback For Boehner

Samhain said:
Wouldn't the Dems then have to admit that increasing taxes will cause a recession? Isn't that contrary to their mantra?
Click to expand...


Nope, they will claim that the tax cuts for the rich did it and that's why they let the Bush tax cuts expire so they could then get a tax cuts for the middle and lower class passed.

Not saying any of that is correct, but it's a win/win for the Dems and a lose/lose for the GOP.
 
Re: Plan B' Vote Spiked In House In Major Setback For Boehner

lpast said:
To me this entire election and these negotiations reenforce what ive felt along time..politicians being elected to national office once they get there dont have to do whats right for the country...only what their little district wants them to do to enable them to win re election..and thats WHATS WRONG WITH WASHINGTON...if they all had to answer to all americans then they would be more tuned into whats good for the country to get re elected than just their little district
Click to expand...

So what you're saying is what's wrong with America is that Representatives within a Representative Democracy are Representing their consituency? One of the primary point of the HOR is that these people are SUPPOSED to be watching out for their little district. That podunk county in North Dakota has someone representing and voting on what best represents their views and helps them, not necessarily just going along with what would work best for San Francisco California, Harrisonburg Virginia, Dallas Texas, or Grand Rapids Michigan. THOSE places have their own representatives to push for that.

The reason it's "not working" as well now as when invisioned is because the Federal Government has massively expanded beyond it's purpose
 
Re: Plan B' Vote Spiked In House In Major Setback For Boehner

TheNextEra said:
Nope, they will claim that the tax cuts for the rich did it and that's why they let the Bush tax cuts expire so they could then get a tax cuts for the middle and lower class passed.

Not saying any of that is correct, but it's a win/win for the Dems and a lose/lose for the GOP.
Click to expand...

Unless the GOP put forward the tax cut bill prior to the Democrats.
 
Re: Plan B' Vote Spiked In House In Major Setback For Boehner

TheNextEra said:
Nope, they will claim that the tax cuts for the rich did it and that's why they let the Bush tax cuts expire so they could then get a tax cuts for the middle and lower class passed.

Not saying any of that is correct, but it's a win/win for the Dems and a lose/lose for the GOP.
Click to expand...

That logic doesn't make much sense. Would the rest of the cliff deal still be in place, or would that tax vote negate the entire cliff deal?

Zyphlin said:
Unless the GOP put forward the tax cut bill prior to the Democrats.
Click to expand...

And wouldn't they have to, since it involves revenue and must start in the house?
 
Re: Plan B' Vote Spiked In House In Major Setback For Boehner

Samhain said:
Wouldn't the Dems then have to admit that increasing taxes will cause a recession? Isn't that contrary to their mantra?
Click to expand...

No, because they, along with the republicants, will simply "undo" the tax increase; the "Bush" rates will become the "Obama" rates for the 80%, or whatever the demorats decide is "fair". The problem is that both parties are still allowing taxation to be decoupled from spending, thus assuring a continued huge federal deficit and likely credit rating downgrade/interest rate increase.
 
Thorgasm said:
:rofl

If the Heritage Foundation says so...

People pay into those programs expecting benefits to be paid out upon eligibility. It's not a handout. Partisan hack word play doesn't change that the GOP wants to reneg on that promise.
Click to expand...

This is a short list of entitlements, which ones do people pay into?

United States Government Entitlement Programs:

Home Mortgage Interest Deduction
Hope or Lifetime Learning Tax Credit
Student Loans / Forgiveness
Child and Dependent Care Tax Credit
Earned Income Tax Credit
Social Security--Retirement & Survivors
Pell Grants
Unemployment Insurance
Veterans Benefits
G.I. Bill
Medicare
Head Start
Social Security Disability
SSI--Supplemental Security Income
Medicaid
Welfare/Public Assistance
Government Subsidized Housing
Food Stamps
Medicaid
 
Re: Plan B' Vote Spiked In House In Major Setback For Boehner

ttwtt78640 said:
No, because they, along with the republicants, will simply "undo" the tax increase; the "Bush" rates will become the "Obama" rates for the 80%, or whatever the demorats decide is "fair". The problem is that both parties are still allowing taxation to be decoupled from spending, thus assuring a continued huge federal deficit and likely credit rating downgrade/interest rate increase.
Click to expand...

Which of course does nothing to prevent the continued trillion/yr deficits, nor the debt ceiling in February. Yet another round of kick the can.
 
Re: Plan B' Vote Spiked In House In Major Setback For Boehner

lpast said:
Never read an obamas tweet have you ?...but since you made a failed attempt at insult...let me say this...you need to go read whats actually going on and stop just putting out what you want it to be, thats why all those republicans were shocked stunned and shat themselves when they got their asskicked during the election...they just happily and dumbly just lalala'd around believing whatever it was they wanted to....The gop is in trouble many republican experts agree and are TELLING THEM they need to re invent the brand...they cannot give the perception anymore they are the part of the rich for the rich attack the middle class...now go read and find out for yourself.
Click to expand...

Obama won reelection because he successfully marketed to the pop culture. He was elected by people who do not understand the long term effects of his policies and believed when he told them that it would be the OTHER guy who was going to pay for everything. The real shame of it is that there are enough people out there who are either so selfish, clueless, or spiteful that they voted for a guy who is going to raise their taxes and drag the recession out for years. This fiscal cliff and tax increase for everyone is not about revenue. There isn't even a budget, how can we know what income needs to be if we don't know what is being spent where? No, this deal is about driving up costs and keeping unemployment at a balance, high enough to make more people dependent on government but low enough to prevent a revolt. I firmly believe Obama is doing what he thinks is right, it just not what many others think is right. He is growing the government and expanding dependency on it which increases the power of government for the long term. It's not about us, it's about power. And he is doing it by appealing to a large portion of the population that lacks the thought process to be able to see what the effects will be.
 
Re: Plan B' Vote Spiked In House In Major Setback For Boehner

ttwtt78640 said:
No, because they, along with the republicants, will simply "undo" the tax increase; the "Bush" rates will become the "Obama" rates for the 80%, or whatever the demorats decide is "fair". The problem is that both parties are still allowing taxation to be decoupled from spending, thus assuring a continued huge federal deficit and likely credit rating downgrade/interest rate increase.
Click to expand...

That is already a sure thing, if Obama gets the tax increases he wants he will only have to borrow 1.1 trillion a yr. Deficits at least for the next 4 yrs will be a trillion plus a yr.
 
Re: Plan B' Vote Spiked In House In Major Setback For Boehner

Zyphlin said:
Unless the GOP put forward the tax cut bill prior to the Democrats.
Click to expand...

That's true, however, I think if the Dems are going to let the tax cuts expire they probably already have a bill in the works to whip out.
 
Re: Plan B' Vote Spiked In House In Major Setback For Boehner

TheNextEra said:
Actually your precious GOP is idiotically falling into the hands of Obama. With the automatic tax increase happening after a "fiscal cliff" (which it really isn't since we fell off it years ago), all the Dems have to do is propose a tax decrease (like the GOP so called agrees with) on the middle and lower class.

If the GOP doesn't go along with a tax decrease, they look like liars and will soon be voted out. If the GOP goes along with it, they will be doing what Obama wants.

The GOP is in a lose/lose scenario. This country is failing because people will not stop serving their Dem/Rep Masters.
Click to expand...

The country is failing becuase they want "free stuff" (gov't spending far in excess of actual taxation). Both the republicants and demorats (all congress critters) are on board with this "popular" idea. Look at any poll and you see two opposite things are wanted, lower taxes (possibly except for other richer folks) and more (or no less) gov't spending on their favorite stuff (entitlements).
 
Re: Plan B' Vote Spiked In House In Major Setback For Boehner

Samhain said:
That logic doesn't make much sense. Would the rest of the cliff deal still be in place, or would that tax vote negate the entire cliff deal?
Click to expand...

The rest of it would be in place, however, if the Dems use the excuse of "See, the Republicans didn't want to work with us on anything so now we are at least going to give the middle class and lower class a tax cut like we wanted to".

The blame would be shifted to the GOP and the Dems would come out looking like they are working "for the people".

Of course, people that keep up on politics should know by now the Dem/Rep just continue to fail this country.
 
Re: Plan B' Vote Spiked In House In Major Setback For Boehner

ttwtt78640 said:
The country is failing becuase they want "free stuff" (gov't spending far in excess of actual taxation). Both the republicants and demorats (all congress critters) are on board with this "popular" idea. Look at any poll and you see two opposite things are wanted, lower taxes (possibly except for other richer folks) and more (or no less) gov't spending on their favorite stuff.
Click to expand...

You are arguing a chicken before the egg. Is it the voters fault for voting in the representatives that give them free stuff, or is it the fault of the representatives for giving into the demands of the voters over what's best for the country?
 
Re: Plan B' Vote Spiked In House In Major Setback For Boehner

tech30528 said:
Obama won reelection because he successfully marketed to the pop culture. He was elected by people who do not understand the long term effects of his policies and believed when he told them that it would be the OTHER guy who was going to pay for everything. The real shame of it is that there are enough people out there who are either so selfish, clueless, or spiteful that they voted for a guy who is going to raise their taxes and drag the recession out for years. This fiscal cliff and tax increase for everyone is not about revenue. There isn't even a budget, how can we know what income needs to be if we don't know what is being spent where? No, this deal is about driving up costs and keeping unemployment at a balance, high enough to make more people dependent on government but low enough to prevent a revolt. I firmly believe Obama is doing what he thinks is right, it just not what many others think is right. He is growing the government and expanding dependency on it which increases the power of government for the long term. It's not about us, it's about power. And he is doing it by appealing to a large portion of the population that lacks the thought process to be able to see what the effects will be.
Click to expand...

Exactly, this country has flipped, from self dependency and taking responsibility to one of government dependence and freebees. We are now solidly a Welfare / Nanny State, that can't be reversed because of the majorities dependence on government. And it will be those same dependent on government who will screaming in the streets "I demand my entitlements" when the money runs out.
 
Last edited:
Re: Plan B' Vote Spiked In House In Major Setback For Boehner

Zyphlin said:
So what you're saying is what's wrong with America is that Representatives within a Representative Democracy are Representing their consituency? One of the primary point of the HOR is that these people are SUPPOSED to be watching out for their little district. That podunk county in North Dakota has someone representing and voting on what best represents their views and helps them, not necessarily just going along with what would work best for San Francisco California, Harrisonburg Virginia, Dallas Texas, or Grand Rapids Michigan. THOSE places have their own representatives to push for that.

The reason it's "not working" as well now as when invisioned is because the Federal Government has massively expanded beyond it's purpose
Click to expand...

I think those Repub representatives are lobbying for the 1% and that is a damn small constituency and they are not allowed bragging rights to this. They have to pretend that they are representing the middle class.
 
Re: Plan B' Vote Spiked In House In Major Setback For Boehner

TheNextEra said:
You are arguing a chicken before the egg. Is it the voters fault for voting in the representatives that give them free stuff, or is it the fault of the representatives for giving into the demands of the voters over what's best for the country?
Click to expand...

Exactly. Cutting (or not raising) taxes is popular, and saving entitlements is popular. Thus all congress critters will do both, which means continued massive deficit spending. We are fast becomming like Greece, but are far, far "too big to bail". USA, USA, USA...
 
Re: Plan B' Vote Spiked In House In Major Setback For Boehner

Zyphlin said:
So what you're saying is what's wrong with America is that Representatives within a Representative Democracy are Representing their consituency? One of the primary point of the HOR is that these people are SUPPOSED to be watching out for their little district. That podunk county in North Dakota has someone representing and voting on what best represents their views and helps them, not necessarily just going along with what would work best for San Francisco California, Harrisonburg Virginia, Dallas Texas, or Grand Rapids Michigan. THOSE places have their own representatives to push for that.

The reason it's "not working" as well now as when invisioned is because the Federal Government has massively expanded beyond it's purpose
Click to expand...

I have to disagree. The propaganda and misinformation out there often times have people voting against their interests. The wealth gap has concentrated more power at the top. I think it's safe to say that our Founders didn't envision the corruption of money in politics in more ways than one. These representatives need to bring home Federal dollars to their districts. You can't expect the Federal govt. to hand them money and not have some sort of control.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top Bottom