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Westboro Meets Its Match: Thousands Sign Retaliatory Petitions

I would love to take one of those semi automatic weapons the left is always whinning aboutand blow their heads off.

Well that would be murder, and no one here (I suppose barring you) is really moving towards that end. Try to stay rational.
 
I appreciate and agree with the sentiment, but I don't think we can lawfully pick which messages we think are sufficiently hateful so as to move people from 'legitimate church' to 'hate group'.

OTOH, I am not sure I care about the law when I think about Westboro. But, I would much rather see them get the **** beat out of them by masked thugs than to have the First Amendment trod upon. Masked thugs would be a delight, actually.

This.

I don't like this petition because it's clearly a politically motivated action which has consequences in expression of religion, freedom of speech, assembly, association, and protest. I understand how they are despicable, that people would love to assault them, that they are scum and assholes for what they do. But there's too much at stake to let our emotions get the best of us. We have to accept this as a consequence of freedom and move on. We cannot allow ourselves to be drawn down to their level and attempt to use government to infringe upon their rights.
 
Well, I don’t think any church should have tax free status unless they meet the same conditions as other non-profit organizations. Such as having to give back a specified percentage back to the community. I find it hard to believe WBBC does that. So strip the f**kers.

They are required to give back in order to have their tax-exempt status, the wording is just a little vague:

■ the organization must be organized and operated
exclusively for religious, educational, scientific, or other
charitable purposes,

■ net earnings may not inure to the benefit of any
private individual or shareholder,

■ no substantial part of its activity may be attempting
to influence legislation,

■ the organization may not intervene in political
campaigns, and

■ the organization’s purposes and activities may not
be illegal or violate fundamental public policy
http://www.irs.gov/pub/irs-pdf/p1828.pdf

I think you could make a case against them as a 'hate group' and argue for intent to inflict emotional distress.
 
I would love to take one of those semi automatic weapons the left is always whinning aboutand blow their heads off.

There are better ways.

Ways some haven't even thought of. Remember when the 911 hijackers used only box cutters. Who would have thought about using just $2 box cutters to do so much damage. That was totally out of the box thinking. If one contemplates on this issue there are probably many options people haven't even thought of. And you may not even have to spend a day in jail. But it is best not to suggest any in public.
 
Go to news92fm.com for the story breaking that the monsters of Westboro Baptist Church may show up ath the funerals of the blessed little angels murdered last week to scream their obscenities at the grieving families.
 
Well that would be murder, and no one here (I suppose barring you) is really moving towards that end. Try to stay rational.

I wonder how many Americans would greive over the end of these Westboro psychotics. I for one would toast the event for THAT would be the RATIONAL thing to do!
 
I wonder how many Americans would greive over the end of these Westboro psychotics. I for one would toast the event for THAT would be the RATIONAL thing to do!

I wouldn't. The loss of human life is sad.
 
Westboro Meets Its Match: Thousands Sign Retaliatory Petitions | fox4kc.com



What say you? Legitimate action or suppression of free speech?

Well, they have every right to free speech. But I think others should have the right to voice their disdain for this hate group by punching their lights out. LOL!

Seriously, just once, let the mob rule. Beat the holy **** out of the assholes wherever and whenever they come out from under their rock. I sure the cops would turn a blind eye if they new they had the backing of the community. Or just "not show up" to protect the Westboro idiots.
 
This.

I don't like this petition because it's clearly a politically motivated action which has consequences in expression of religion, freedom of speech, assembly, association, and protest. I understand how they are despicable, that people would love to assault them, that they are scum and assholes for what they do. But there's too much at stake to let our emotions get the best of us. We have to accept this as a consequence of freedom and move on. We cannot allow ourselves to be drawn down to their level and attempt to use government to infringe upon their rights.
The tactics of the Westboro Church are not what was intended in our freedoms as a responsible people. While there must be tolerance there must also be respect and responsibility. It is disruption, not protest they plan and execute and any thinking and in this case feeling adult is required as an American to recognize and stand up for the difference.
 
The tactics of the Westboro Church are not what was intended in our freedoms as a responsible people. While there must be tolerance there must also be respect and responsibility. It is disruption, not protest they plan and execute and any thinking and in this case feeling adult is required as an American to recognize and stand up for the difference.

It may not be "what was intended", but it is a consequence there of. Live with it. Destroying freedom because you don't think some dumbass pricks should talk will not drive us to a better place. Freedom has consequences, we must accept those.
 
The tactics of the Westboro Church are not what was intended in our freedoms as a responsible people. While there must be tolerance there must also be respect and responsibility. It is disruption, not protest they plan and execute and any thinking and in this case feeling adult is required as an American to recognize and stand up for the difference.

Nor was shooting up a school house intended when we were granted the right and freedom to bear arms.

Perhaps we should revisit the then vs. now and do some tweaking.
 
Here are the tax laws / IRS regulations for being considered a religious organization.
Quite interesting.

Church Defined - IRS Church Definition

Church Defined - IRS Church DefinitionChurch Defined - IRS Church Definition

Because of First Amendment religious freedom concerns, Congress has never passed any statute anywhere which defines what a church is (beyond saying "a church or convention or association of churches", which is like saying that the definition of a duck is "one or more ducks"). The IRS, which apparently is unconstrained by the First Amendment, has nonetheless ventured where angels fear to tread, and has established criteria which, in its view, define a church as follows:

1. A distinct legal existence
2. A recognized creed and form of worship
3. A definite and distinct ecclesiastical government
4. A formal code of doctrine and discipline
5. A distinct religious history
6. A membership not associated with any other church or denomination
7. An organization of ordained ministers
8. Ordained ministers selected after completing prescribed studies
9. A literature of its own
10. Established places of worship
11. Regular congregations
12. Regular religious services
13. Sunday schools for religious instruction of the young
14. Schools for the preparation of its ministers.

The Tax Court, which is apparently unconstrained by the IRS administrative criteria, has adopted its own view, consisting of most of the same criteria compacted into 7 or 8 points. See, e.g., Pusch v. Commissioner, 39 T.C.M. 838 (1980) or Chapman v. Commissioner 48 T.C. 358 (1967). In any event, not all of the 14 criteria must be met by every individual church, since only a substantial denomination will meet all of the criteria, and the IRS must allow for the existence of independent churches. Thus, there is substantial "wiggle room."
 
It's backdoor bullying using the government and threats against purse. It's what a ***** does.

Unlike real men, who solve their problems with their fists or with guns.
 
Unlike real men, who solve their problems with their fists or with guns.

Nope, real men gladly accept and shoulder the burdens and consequences of freedom.
 
The tactics of the Westboro Church are not what was intended in our freedoms as a responsible people. While there must be tolerance there must also be respect and responsibility. It is disruption, not protest they plan and execute and any thinking and in this case feeling adult is required as an American to recognize and stand up for the difference.

Replace Westboro Church in your statement with the N-word, and you have pretty much restated the position of those hosing blacks down the street in the 60's; replace it with hippies and you have pretty much restated the position of da Man at Kent State. The right to protest is more important than who uses it or why.
 
Nope, real men gladly accept and shoulder the burdens and consequences of freedom.

Sorry, I don't count twenty dead 6 year olds as a 'burden and consequence' of freedom. Anybody who does needs to seriously re-examine their priorities.
 
Sorry, I don't count twenty dead 6 year olds as a 'burden and consequence' of freedom. Anybody who does needs to seriously re-examine their priorities.

Sorry, we weren't talking about that, rather we were talking about WBC. Please try to remain on topic if you wish to engage in debate.
 
You are correct. My error and my apology.
 
It may not be "what was intended", but it is a consequence there of. Live with it. Destroying freedom because you don't think some dumbass pricks should talk will not drive us to a better place. Freedom has consequences, we must accept those.

I agree completely with your comment.

WBC's actions are disgusting, and make me sick to my stomach.

As much as I hate what they do, the freedom of speech accorded by the 1A is more important.

I also fully support the Patriot Riders' interference in WBC activities.
 
I agree completely with your comment.

WBC's actions are disgusting, and make me sick to my stomach.

As much as I hate what they do, the freedom of speech accorded by the 1A is more important.

I also fully support the Patriot Riders' interference in WBC activities.

Counter-protest is valid and should also be freely engaged in.
 
Can somebody explain to me how this is a suppression of free speech? I agree that singling out WBC as a hate group and not doing the same for similarly hateful churches and organizations is abuse of power, but hate groups can still have demonstrations and the like, so...
 
How can one justify removing this church's status, but not that of other churches?


In reference to the tax exempt status:

I haven't thought this through yet, but if a church uses public property to conduct itself, then it should lose it's status and have to be passed/judged/licensed by the town to operate at the intersection of x and y. I am sure there is a flaw in there somewhere...but that is a initial thought.
 
In reference to the tax exempt status:

I haven't thought this through yet, but if a church uses public property to conduct itself, then it should lose it's status and have to be passed/judged/licensed by the town to operate at the intersection of x and y. I am sure there is a flaw in there somewhere...but that is a initial thought.

How so? Is a protest considered "conducting itself", cause lots of churches protest in public. Sometimes they can put displays up in public. Often times some variant of them will preach in public. Would this not essentially mean that no church should have tax-exempt status?
 
I've only browsed this thread, so it's possible you guys are going off on a tangent of some kind, but I'm not at all sure why the first amendment is being invoked so much . The sole issue in the OP is an attempt to remove the tax exempt status of an organization on the grounds that it does not meet the qualifications to enjoy that tax exempt status. If WBC is a hate group, it's not entitled to the exemptions afforded a church (I don't think churches should be tax exempt either, but that's another story). That will in no way prevent them from exercizing either their religious beliefs or their free expression clause rights. End of story.
 
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