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Clackamas man, armed, confronts mall shooter

dirtpoorchris said:
Well learn to differentiate between extreme fascism and friendly fascism with a smile. Police/military with guns and general populace disallowed guns is definitely friendly fascism. Just because some dude with a barrett or equivilant hat on isnt ordering the populace to do pushups doenst mean it isnt friendly fascism. Sure maybe the govenrment is in check now. But what if it gets usurped by any means in the future? You want the authorities to have guns but not average Joe?

Fact: Mean spirited kids will pick on declawed cats over clawed ones.
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If the US government wanted to become a fascist state, it could do so easily even without banning guns. The US military has the resources to do so at the drop of a dime. Your civilian guns would do nothing against a Tank, F-22, F-15 or the Army.
 
TurtleDude said:
the idiotic counter to reality nonsense continues. lets punish legal ownership because someone might get an legal gun and use it illegally
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Might get a legal gun. THEY ARE GETTING GUNS FROM LEGAL OWNERS!!!! How many crimes have you seen committed with guns that people built themselves or purchased from some entity that is illegally building guns? I am willing to bet, that crimes committed with guns manufactured by legal and large manufacturers far outnumber guns that are locally manufactured by illegal manufactureres and individuals.
 
Capster78 said:
If the US government wanted to become a fascist state, it could do so easily even without banning guns. The US military has the resources to do so at the drop of a dime. Your civilian guns would do nothing against a Tank, F-22, F-15 or the Army.
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we could easily kill those in charge and the toadies who support them
 
Capster78 said:
Might get a legal gun. THEY ARE GETTING GUNS FROM LEGAL OWNERS!!!! How many crimes have you seen committed with guns that people built themselves or purchased from some entity that is illegally building guns? I am willing to bet, that crimes committed with guns manufactured by legal and large manufacturers far outnumber guns that are locally manufactured by illegal manufactureres and individuals.
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hey why not just put everyone in jail until they are say 50 years old

after all every criminal was born innocent

is there no end to the idiocy in your posts?
 
TurtleDude said:
we could easily kill those in charge and the toadies who support them
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Easily.. Doubtful. If such a thing were to occur, you believe they would be surrounded by guards with pellet guns? Do you know how many assassination attempts Hitler survived? You believe that if the US were ever to become a fascist state that it would be any easier? I think you should seek psychological help if you actually believe there is any possibility that the ban of guns would lead to the US becoming a fascist state.
 
Capster78 said:
Actually, i think we should decriminalize drugs and fight it with intensive drug rehab. I would still require cops to arrest those who are found with drugs, but instead of sending them to a prison and having that show up as a crime, they would be sentenced to mandatory rehab.
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That shows very little understanding of the recreational/street drug trade. Those that sell drugs (successfully) rarely use that poison, that they sell, personally, as they must rely on their wits (among other things) to keep from being robbed, arrested and to profit handsomely from that chosen "profession".
 
TurtleDude said:
hey why not just put everyone in jail until they are say 50 years old

after all every criminal was born innocent

is there no end to the idiocy in your posts?
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What??? Put people in jail until they are 50 years old? I have no idea what you are talking about, or how it relates to the debate at all.
 
ttwtt78640 said:
That shows very little understanding of the recreational/street drug trade. Those that sell drugs (successfully) rarely use that poison, that they sell, personally, as they must rely on their wits (among other things) to keep from being robbed, arrested and to profit handsomely from that chosen "profession".
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This may be true for large traffickers, and i say that with some apprehension. Im sure there are those who are exactly as you say, and stay away from it. But more are users as well as distributers. It is just part of the culture that consists of the drug trade.
 
Capster78 said:
no, it will get it out of the hands of those who own guns legally, that then provide those guns to someone else illegally.
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*cough* ATF giving guns to anti civilian-police criminals in Mexico and abound. And grenades. *cough*
 
dirtpoorchris said:
*cough* ATF giving guns to anti civilian-police criminals in Mexico and abound. And grenades. *cough*
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This source of gun trafficking pales in comparison to what occurs between legal owners / distributors and illegal owners.
 
Capster78 said:
Easily.. Doubtful. If such a thing were to occur, you believe they would be surrounded by guards with pellet guns? Do you know how many assassination attempts Hitler survived? You believe that if the US were ever to become a fascist state that it would be any easier? I think you should seek psychological help if you actually believe there is any possibility that the ban of guns would lead to the US becoming a fascist state.
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I am talking about politicians and people who pushed for gun control-such as say you.

how many armed guards are available to protect every politician who supported a civil war on gun owners and those who supported such a war.
 
Capster78 said:
This may be true for large traffickers, and i say that with some apprehension. Im sure there are those who are exactly as you say, and stay away from it. But more are users as well as distributers. It is just part of the culture that consists of the drug trade.
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Some indeed buy, use and sell, as you say, but they are the extremely "small fry". They buy in just enough quantity that they may sell some to effectively get theirs "free". They also run a huge risk of being "put away", more by competing sellers or "needy" and greedy customers than any law enforcement entity. They are simply street punks with a habit, not the ones making millions.
 
Capster78 said:
What??? Put people in jail until they are 50 years old? I have no idea what you are talking about, or how it relates to the debate at all.
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you think the way to stop illegal use of guns is to prevent legal ownership

based on the claim that all illegal guns started of as legal

well all criminals were innocent prior to becoming criminals
 
TurtleDude said:
I am talking about politicians and people who pushed for gun control-such as say you.

how many armed guards are available to protect every politician who supported a civil war on gun owners and those who supported such a war.
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What??? Are you typing from an undeground bunker. Because, If you are, I warn you. The government has RF equipment that can penetrate tin foil now...
 
Capster78 said:
Easily.. Doubtful. If such a thing were to occur, you believe they would be surrounded by guards with pellet guns? Do you know how many assassination attempts Hitler survived? You believe that if the US were ever to become a fascist state that it would be any easier? I think you should seek psychological help if you actually believe there is any possibility that the ban of guns would lead to the US becoming a fascist state.
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I would be wary of underestimating the civilian population...we have the US military outgunned , outmanned, and have them at a strategic and tactical disadvantage




the ban of guns would not lead to a fascist state... it would lead to a failed state, as in , the demise of the US government... preferably a nonviolent demise, but a demise in any event.
 
Capster78 said:
What??? Are you typing from an undeground bunker. Because, If you are, I warn you. The government has RF equipment that can penetrate tin foil now...
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you don't really get it. you are the one who wants the state to wage a war on gun owners and I am merely saying that if your dreams come true, you are going to be seen as a primary target by those who you want to oppress.
 
ttwtt78640 said:
Some indeed buy, use and sell, as you say, but they are the extremely "small fry". They buy in just enough quantity that they may sell some to effectively get theirs "free". They also run a huge risk of being "put away", more by competing sellers or "needy" and greedy customers than any law enforcement entity. They are simply street punks with a habit, not the ones making millions.
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Well, I would also be in favor of only criminalizing amounts that would be consistent with what a distributor would generally carry. However, I dont know that would be necissary if we could reduce the customer base as well as legalizing it to the point where the prices drop and the sale of drugs is no longer a viable way to make a living.
 
TurtleDude said:
you don't really get it. you are the one who wants the state to wage a war on gun owners and I am merely saying that if your dreams come true, you are going to be seen as a primary target by those who you want to oppress.
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You believe that if the government banned guns, the people would go to war against it. Does not sound much like a fascist state, more like a fascist faction of our population. In that sense, yes, I would imagine there would be a war.
 
Thrilla said:
I would be wary of underestimating the civilian population...we have the US military outgunned , outmanned, and have them at a strategic and tactical disadvantage




the ban of guns would not lead to a fascist state... it would lead to a failed state, as in , the demise of the US government... preferably a nonviolent demise, but a demise in any event.
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Outgunned? You must not know what the military is armed with. All the guns in the world are not going to help you against armored divisions and aircraft.
 
If an "armed society is the safest society" then we should be the safest society in the world, and that is simply not true..
 
Capster78 said:
You believe that if the government banned guns, the people would go to war against it. Does not sound much like a fascist state, more like a fascist faction of our population. In that sense, yes, I would imagine there would be a war.
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and many of us would see people like you as primary targets in such a war
 
Capster78 said:
Might get a legal gun. THEY ARE GETTING GUNS FROM LEGAL OWNERS!!!! How many crimes have you seen committed with guns that people built themselves or purchased from some entity that is illegally building guns? I am willing to bet, that crimes committed with guns manufactured by legal and large manufacturers far outnumber guns that are locally manufactured by illegal manufactureres and individuals.
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I expect you will have a long life of disappointment...considering that your desired gun ban will simply not happen.
 
TheDemSocialist said:
If an "armed society is the safest society" then we should be the safest society in the world, and that is simply not true..
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we are a lot safer than places where only the government and criminals have a monopoly on firepower.
 
Capster78 said:
Well, I would also be in favor of only criminalizing amounts that would be consistent with what a distributor would generally carry. However, I dont know that would be necissary if we could reduce the customer base as well as legalizing it to the point where the prices drop and the sale of drugs is no longer a viable way to make a living.
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You cannot legalize "hard" drugs effectively, because nobody would go into their "recreational use" production for fear of lawsuits, no matter how many "warning labels" you affix. Can you imgaine a "FDA approved" manufacturer of heroine, cocaine, extascy or meth lasting more than a month or two before getting sued? Now weed may get legalized, since it is far less of an addictive poison, but the "hard" drugs - no way.
 
Capster78 said:
Outgunned? You must not know what the military is armed with. All the guns in the world are not going to help you against armored divisions and aircraft.
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you think a a few thousand pilots or tankers are immune from millions of people armed with extremely accurate rifles and that those individuals can live in their planes and tanks ad infinitum?

do you think that the people who push such a war are immune as well

I hate to clue you in on reality but there are people out there -that if they can see you up to a mile a way can kill you with a single rifle shot. and for many of them a quarter mile is a chip shot. you think you can stay 800 yards away from anyone for a long length of time?
 
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