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26 reported killed in Newtown [W:72/89]

ttwtt78640 said:
The kind of person that is not a resident of the state of purchase (some exceptions to this apply) and that an NICS check indicates is not a US citizen, has had a violent felony conviction, was designated as having dometic abuse issues or was certified as mentally deficient. Beyond that, I know of no other legal reason for a FFL dealer to deny the sale of a gun. As you should be aware, after that purchaser leaves that FFL dealer's sight, they are free to do as they please with that gun, with no further paperwork involved, or responsibility lies with that FFL dealer. Do some FFL dealers violate the law? Probably, but that is not my concern, that is why we have the BATFE.
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What kind of exceptions?

As you should be aware before that ffl dealer sells that gun he best know something about who's he's selling it to.

If they violate the law in your neighborhood and someone close to you got killed it just might become your concerned.:peace
 
H. Lee White said:
Because it speaks to all examples of gun control,. existing and proposed.


In case you havent been reading -my- posts... you're wasting my time.
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Purposed by who the NRA??

In case you haven't noticed the existing gun control laws are not working and the purposed gun control is not accepted.

So where does that leave America more dead innocent people and more excuses why the existing gun control works???:peace
 
presluc said:
What kind of exceptions?

As you should be aware before that ffl dealer sells that gun he best know something about who's he's selling it to.

If they violate the law in your neighborhood and someone close to you got killed it just might become your concerned.:peace
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FFL dealers are not liable to "know" much about their customers, that is why the NICS check is required. The exceptions, for state residency, that I am aware of are: if they are civilians on official gov't orders for temporary duty assignment in that state, if they are active duty (or active reserve) military stationed in that state or if they own property in that state yet primarily reside elsewhere.
 
presluc said:
Purposed by who the NRA??
In case you haven't noticed the existing gun control laws are not working and the purposed gun control is not accepted.
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Please pay attention.
There is no sound reason to seriously consider gun control that does not work, violates the constitution, or both.
So, it is silly to complain that people dismiss gun control, proposed or existing, because it doesn't work, violates the constitution, or both.
 
ttwtt78640 said:
FFL dealers are not liable to "know" much about their customers, that is why the NICS check is required. The exceptions, for state residency, that I am aware of are: if they are civilians on official gov't orders for temporary duty assignment in that state, if they are active duty (or active reserve) military stationed in that state or if they own property in that state yet primarily reside elsewhere.
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So the guns bought by the Virginia Tech killer was what a coincedence to the exception?:peace
 
H. Lee White said:
Please pay attention.
There is no sound reason to seriously consider gun control that does not work, violates the constitution, or both.
So, it is silly to complain that people dismiss gun control, proposed or existing, because it doesn't work, violates the constitution, or both.
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Sir where in any post that I said dismiss gun control purposed or existing.

I ask for better stronger gun control on the existing gun control you won't even discuss it just no can't be done
It is you who are dismissing a purposed gun control not I.

You want the existing gun control to stay exactly as it is.
Meanwhile check the gun shootings in New Jersey today.
How many victims of gun shootings in the last three months?
How many children?:peace
 
presluc said:
Sir where in any post that I said dismiss gun control purposed or existing.
I ask for better stronger gun control on the existing gun control you won't even discuss it just no can't be done
It is you who are dismissing a purposed gun control not I.
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Because there is no sound action other than to dismiss gun control that does not work, violates the constitution, or both.
So, it is silly to complain that people dismiss gun control, proposed or existing, because it doesn't work, violates the constitution, or both.

You want the existing gun control to stay exactly as it is.
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Actually, no - I want to get rid of gun control laws that do not work, violate the constitution, or both, and I want to impeiment gun control that -does- work while not violating the Constitution.

YOU, from everything I have read so far, want to implement additional gun control laws that do not work, violate the constitution, or both - which, of course, makes no sense whatsoever.
 
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presluc said:
So the guns bought by the Virginia Tech killer was what a coincedence to the exception?:peace
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More than one VT killer but I assume you meant Cho. That is old news and the federal law was changed because of it.

The massacre prompted the state of Virginia to close legal loopholes that had previously allowed Cho, an individual adjudicated as mentally unsound, to purchase handguns without detection by the National Instant Criminal Background Check System (NICS). It also led to passage of the first major federal gun control measure in more than 13 years. The law strengthening the NICS was signed by President George W. Bush on January 5, 2008.
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Above quote taken from: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Virginia_Tech_massacre
 
presluc said:
My response we have had 4 public shootings in 2 months 3 was done buy guns or ammunition bought leagally.
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Yep, out of some 300 million weapons in the US, I'd say that is pretty good. all in all.

Some gun dealers hasn't been crossing the T'S or dotting the I's
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If you have actual proof of that then you need to let the authorities know...But I think your statement here is full of it.

Now if that is gun control working I'd just soon go back to the drawing board and try again.
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You know what gun control is? good aim.

It is the end result that matters not the beginning of gun sales.
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You are tilting at windmills dude...Never, and I do mean NEVER will you or others of your belief succeed in disarming America.
 
j-mac said:
Yep, out of some 300 million weapons in the US, I'd say that is pretty good. all in all.



If you have actual proof of that then you need to let the authorities know...But I think your statement here is full of it.



You know what gun control is? good aim.



You are tilting at windmills dude...Never, and I do mean NEVER will you or others of your belief succeed in disarming America.
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I was told I was "tilting at windmills " before after the VT shootings.
Gun control laws were changed just the same.:peace
 
presluc said:
I am well aware of the changes made after VT in gun control if I recall correctly the NRA and gun advocates fought that as well.:peace
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So what was your point about that shooting being based on an "exception" or "coincidence"?
 
Gentlemen, I have said time after time I support the 2nd amendment I agree that honest responsible people should have the right to own and bear guns and to defend themself against any that would wish them harm.

However if gun control is to remain the same and you actually believe this will not happen again and more frequently?

Then gentlemen you are playing long odds , real long odds.

You do know that gun sales have doubled in one state and gone up in many more ;to place all these guns in different peoples hands with the current gun control , and expect no shootings of innocent people, you might has well play the lottery and hope the only ticket you buy is a 90 million dollar winner.

Say these people buying guns are friends of people who want to protest Wall Street.:peace
 
ttwtt78640 said:
So what was your point about that shooting being based on an "exception" or "coincidence"?
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At that time it happened it was.
Do you actually believe this is the first time anybody ask for stricter gun control?

Strickter gun control was ask for long before VT, and long before the gun control laws were changed.

FYI. People should not have to die to get strickter gun control.
You will admit that by changing the gun control laws "as was said in a previous post" did make gun control law strickter?:peace
 
presluc said:
At that time it happened it was.
Do you actually believe this is the first time anybody ask for stricter gun control?

Strickter gun control was ask for long before VT, and long before the gun control laws were changed.

FYI. People should not have to die to get strickter gun control.
You will admit that by changing the gun control laws "as was said in a previous post" did make gun control law strickter?:peace
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Yes it did; and with very little additional gov't control. There are many, common sense things that can be done to improve any system. Adding full blown gun owner certification and an all gun registration system is not in that category, IMHO. Offering reasonably priced training in gun safety and the applicable laws for civilian personal defense, to all, would go a lot further, and be met with much less resistance. Even gun owners may agree that a small level of reasonable, additional gov't involvement may be for the common good. However, attempting to twist a long held Constitutional right into a mere state issued privilege will not fit that bill. It is better to attempt to attain change by evolution rather than revolution, IMHO. The longest journey started but with a single step, but it must be taken in the right direction. ;)
 
presluc said:
Gentlemen, I have said time after time I support the 2nd amendment I agree that honest responsible people should have the right to own and bear guns and to defend themself against any that would wish them harm.

However if gun control is to remain the same and you actually believe this will not happen again and more frequently?

Then gentlemen you are playing long odds , real long odds.

You do know that gun sales have doubled in one state and gone up in many more ;to place all these guns in different peoples hands with the current gun control , and expect no shootings of innocent people, you might has well play the lottery and hope the only ticket you buy is a 90 million dollar winner.

Say these people buying guns are friends of people who want to protest Wall Street.:peace
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You're scared of OWS? Anarchists? What? I assure you that anyone from those groups planning to do harm through gun play, are not buying them through legal means.
 
presluc said:
Strickter gun control was ask for long before VT, and long before the gun control laws were changed.
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The AR-15 used in the Newton shooting was legal under the 1994 AWB.
The handguns were purchaed under CT laws which requires a permit.

Specifically, what "strickter" gun laws would have stopped the Newtown shooting?
Please be sure to describe exactly how the laws would have stopped it.
 
H. Lee White said:
The AR-15 used in the Newton shooting was legal under the 1994 AWB.
The handguns were purchaed under CT laws which requires a permit.

Specifically, what "strickter" gun laws would have stopped the Newtown shooting?
Please be sure to describe exactly how the laws would have stopped it.
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Perhaps if the victims of gun violence were allowed to sue the gun manufacturers who by and large are the ones mainly responsible for promoting the gun violence and profiting the most off the blood of gun violence victims, then perhaps they wouldn't have had the incentive to keep promoting those types of weapons to vulnerable, gullible, law abiding citizens like Nancy Lanza.


.
 
ttwtt78640 said:
Yes it did; and with very little additional gov't control. There are many, common sense things that can be done to improve any system. Adding full blown gun owner certification and an all gun registration system is not in that category, IMHO. Offering reasonably priced training in gun safety and the applicable laws for civilian personal defense, to all, would go a lot further, and be met with much less resistance. Even gun owners may agree that a small level of reasonable, additional gov't involvement may be for the common good. However, attempting to twist a long held Constitutional right into a mere state issued privilege will not fit that bill. It is better to attempt to attain change by evolution rather than revolution, IMHO. The longest journey started but with a single step, but it must be taken in the right direction. ;)
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The right direction was the Brady bill, some ask for more didn't get it untill after the VT.shootings then after a long debate got that.

Sir I think you have me mistaken as somebody that wants no guns in America , this is false I have said I support the 2nd amendment on more than one post on this thread.

You also think I have a policy all set out for stricter gun control, again this is false I have no policy nor would I ask the gun owners of America to go by what I think would make gun control better., I don't have the answers.

However, after Aurora, after Newtown, after firemen being shot in Pennsylvania all within 2 months time.

After seeing the deaths of 20 kids under the age of 10 shot and killed.
I have a question.
CAN AMERICA KEEP THE 2ND AMENDMENT AND DO BETTER ON GUN CONTROL, OR IS THIS THE BEST WE CAN DO???:peace
 
j-mac said:
You're scared of OWS? Anarchists? What? I assure you that anyone from those groups planning to do harm through gun play, are not buying them through legal means.
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Cho the VT killer bought the guns he used at a pawn shop.:peace
 
presluc said:
The right direction was the Brady bill, some ask for more didn't get it untill after the VT.shootings then after a long debate got that.

Sir I think you have me mistaken as somebody that wants no guns in America , this is false I have said I support the 2nd amendment on more than one post on this thread.

You also think I have a policy all set out for stricter gun control, again this is false I have no policy nor would I ask the gun owners of America to go by what I think would make gun control better., I don't have the answers.

However, after Aurora, after Newtown, after firemen being shot in Pennsylvania all within 2 months time.

After seeing the deaths of 20 kids under the age of 10 shot and killed.
I have a question.
CAN AMERICA KEEP THE 2ND AMENDMENT AND DO BETTER ON GUN CONTROL, OR IS THIS THE BEST WE CAN DO???:peace
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Probably not much better, as cetification of "criminal" insanity is hard to get, and rightfully so. The concern I have is that attempting to "pre-classify" those that might commit a gun crime is very tricky business indeed. Many friends and neighbors attested to the fact that these future "mass killer" folks were "odd" yet none described them as dangerous or reported them to authorities.
 
H. Lee White said:
The AR-15 used in the Newton shooting was legal under the 1994 AWB.
The handguns were purchaed under CT laws which requires a permit.

Specifically, what "strickter" gun laws would have stopped the Newtown shooting?
Please be sure to describe exactly how the laws would have stopped it.
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I know what living in a small town means and I have a question.

Why does a sub school teacher need a AR-15 and handguns?

Was it because of the crime in Newtown being so high? don't think so.

Perhaps the gun dealer didn't ask enough questions.
But has I said in a previous post I do not have the answers mearly questions.

My one question remains "CAN AMERICA KEEP THE 2ND AMENDMENT AND IMPROVE GUN CONTROL, OR IS THIS THE BEST AMERICA CAN DO?:peace
 
presluc said:
After seeing the deaths of 20 kids under the age of 10 shot and killed.
I have a question.
CAN AMERICA KEEP THE 2ND AMENDMENT AND DO BETTER ON GUN CONTROL, OR IS THIS THE BEST WE CAN DO???:peace
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I’ve been having similar thoughts, if from the other side.

My thought was: “Are events like this the price of freedom? And, if so, are we willing to pay it?”
 
ttwtt78640 said:
Probably not much better, as cetification of "criminal" insanity is hard to get, and rightfully so. The concern I have is that attempting to "pre-classify" those that might commit a gun crime is very tricky business indeed. Many friends and neighbors attested to the fact that these future "mass killer" folks were "odd" yet none described them as dangerous or reported them to authorities.
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So technically you are saying gun control doesn't need looked into or discussed it's fine the way it is right?
Somebody said the same thing to me right after the V T killings before they changed the law.

So the proposal of gun safety class should be taken by all gun owners is wrong
The class on the best way to keep your gun from getting into others hands another proposal for all gun owners is wrong.
A proposal that whenever your gun is not in use a gun lock be placed on the trigger guard and gun locks should be purchased with guns that is wrong.

So you're saying nothing wrong with gun control at all leave it the way it is,
Very well we have no more to debate nor to discuss.
The next time there is a person with the gun and innocent people or kids wind up dead ask yourself a question.
COULD WE DO BETTER?.
bye.:peace
 
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