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26 reported killed in Newtown [W:72/89]

When is the right time to talk about gun control? It's an honest question. Can you answer that? We have got to talk about it sometime, and it has to be before this happens again and again. How many innocent lives have to be lost before we start the conversation? I wish we had talked about it and acted before this happened. Maybe we can get it done before the next time sweet and innocent lives are lost.

It's never the right time to talk about gun control in the midst of an ongoing tragedy. Using tragedy as a political club is not only distasteful, it's disrespectful to the victims and their families, who should be the focus of our concern. So please try to contain yourself.
 
We do allow people to deend themselves. People can purchase simi automatic weapons and thousands of rounds of amo on line. We have hardly no gun control laws as it is now. Allowing people to defend themselves by owning weapons hasn't solved the problem. Obviously, your solution hasn't been working.
The teachers were not allowed to concealed carry, my solution has not been implemented.
 
Instead of claiming the shooter was evil, lets take a look at the shooters mental state. Perhaps if we had already had health care implemented, the sick individual who took these inocent lives would have gotten the mental health care he obviously needed and that would have prevented such a horrible situation. We have to address these problems. We can't just claim people like the shooter are evil and we can't do anything to prevent this sort of thing. These things will continue to happen over and over agian until we address the problems and come up with common sense solutions.
The GOP are against health care for all and gun control. I would like to know why.

There is another issue here. Where does it say that all shooters are mentally ill? What if a person who has a low stress threshold or low emotional tolerance goes in and buys a gun? He would certainly pass any system check we have now. And then one day something happens and he pops off.

How are we going to detect that with the system currently in place. NOt at all. We need better evaluations and longer ones such as a behavioral stress test (about a week of testing), even then.

We just ALL have to admit that this is not working and create a better system instead of living in a delusional world like some or being ostriches.

Just plain stupid.
 
I am not talking about an all out ban on guns. I am talking about gun control. I am not dillusional in thinking that it will prevent all gun crimes, but when a man can order thousands of rounds of amo on line and multiple simi atuo riffles and enter a movie theater and kill in mass in just a few seconds, something is obviously wrong here. That should have raised a few red flags. However, we have no laws preventing someone from stock pilling weapons and amo that are designed to kill mass amounts of people. If those laws were in place, we act on situations when these red flags come up. I believe in the right of citizens to own guns, but it is time to start the conversation. That is the first step.

Stop I have tried this guy is totally engrossed. Anyone who suggests any action against guns or controls or even suggesting a rational course of action is immediately labeled by him as a gun control freak, even if they (like me) own guns.
 
We do allow people to deend themselves. People can purchase simi automatic weapons and thousands of rounds of amo on line. We have hardly no gun control laws as it is now.

So? Would you rather people only have access to muzzle loaded black powder guns? You say semi-auto as if it were some kind of superior dangerous technology. Actually you said simi but...

Allowing people to defend themselves by owning weapons hasn't solved the problem. Obviously, your solution hasn't been working.

What is the problem? Violence? If you really ever expect that, or the existence of war, to be "solved" you have irrational expectations.
 
Is it time to talk about gun control now? This is getting ridiculous. We never find the time to talk about gun control. These sort of things don't happen in England, and they have very strong gun control laws. The NRA needs to get out of the way and let the conversation begin.

This is NOT the time to turn this tragedy into a political football. How dare you!!
 
LOL If you've ever tried to talk about gun control on the Gun Control Forum you'd quickly know the answer to your question. The gun nut trolls will you shout you down and make any rational discussion about it impossible.

Yep and don't think I haven't tried. I have come to the conclusion that a good many of them are delusional because they cannot and will not even consider that any part of their ideology is wrong, flawed or irrational. this is not normal.
 
It's never the right time to talk about gun control in the midst of an ongoing tragedy. Using tragedy as a political club is not only distasteful, it's disrespectful to the victims and their families, who should be the focus of our concern. So please try to contain yourself.

SO when is the time? After? how soon after? and I am not talking about on this site but nationally. Not a jab BTW but an honest question.
 
Because Healthcare is not a right and the right to defend yourself IS.

Healthcare is a responsibility. Gun control is seeking to usurp the ability of someone to defend themselves from others. Gun control ensures that the only people that are carrying are criminals. Why is the gun violense so bad in Chicago when they have gun control?

I would agree tentatively that pychiatric care may have helped. But even the best healthcare cant always predict when someone will have a psychotic break that allows them to engage in this sort of behavior.

The problem with a free society is that its not very neat and its not very controlled, but people are free to make their own choices. Unfortunately some of those choices are so horrific that we turn away from our principles and seek to control what others do, when something like this is both hard to predict and hard to prevent.

Providing healthcare for our citizens doesn't have to be a right. However, it does provide for the general wealfare of the public, which is constitutional. Our society can and will benefit from providing healthcare because a healthy society is good for everyone. There are many situations where someone who has mental health problems seek help and can not get it. THere are family members that also try to help those individuals get help. When no help is available, those people end up becoming a burden on society in many ways. Rather than have those people be that burden, don't you think it would be better for all of society if everyone could get health care? It would actually be cheaper. We can't prevent every bad situaiton, but we would prevent some and I see that as a good thing.
As for gun control, that does not mean gun ban. Why do people like you assume gun contro is gun ban. People do not need thousands of rounds of amo and a stock pile of simi automatic weapons to defend themselves. Some people shouldn't have guns, and if laws are in place to prevent these kind of people from having guns, law enforcement would have the power it needs to put these people behind bars.
 
This is NOT the time to turn this tragedy into a political football. How dare you!!

When is the time? If we don't do something soon, this will continue to happen. Sense Columbine, we have laxed our gun laws. That has only cost more innocent lives and we are no where near finding a solution for the problem. The reason we are no where near finding a solution for the problem is because no time is a good time to take about gun control and gun violence. Shame on all of us for letting these things contrinue to happen.
 
18 Children were killed in their Kindergarten classroom, as well as 8 other adults. My heart goes out to the families, and breaks for the victims.
 
This is NOT the time to turn this tragedy into a political football. How dare you!!

It should have been turned into a political football about 10 shootings ago.. How many people have to die before righties come to terms with the fact that the NRA is nothing more than a murderers friend.. We need effective gun control and we need restrictions on they types of guns the public can own..
 
18 Children were killed in their Kindergarten classroom, as well as 8 other adults. My heart goes out to the families, and breaks for the victims.

I couldn't agree more..

So sad.. Such a tragic event..
 
So? Would you rather people only have access to muzzle loaded black powder guns? You say semi-auto as if it were some kind of superior dangerous technology. Actually you said simi but...



What is the problem? Violence? If you really ever expect that, or the existence of war, to be "solved" you have irrational expectations.

There is no reason for a citizen to have weapons designed to kill in mass. Me saying this does not mean I think people should only be able to have muzzle loaded guns. I have no problem with sane law abiding citizens having hand guns, rifles, and or shot guns for protection or hunting. I do have a problem with people being able to get online and order thousands of rounds of amo and guns designed to kill in masses in a matter of seconds. I do have a problem with guns being sold with no background checks. I have a huge problem with people who have a history of violence being able to just go buy a gun and weapon and in a matter of hours kill people.
Recently, a man in Florida killed a teenager because his music was too loud and he refused to turn it down.
If you can't see there is something wrong, then I don't know what to tell you. If we see there is a problem but are not willing to at least try to find a viable solution then you are a big part of the problem.
 
There is another thread about the Conn. shooting and I think it says it all.

WOuld be nice but will never happen.

Damn Shame.

When will it end and when will the gunnies realize the futility of their position.

Sadly, the gunnies are unwilling to see the problem. The only time they will realize the futility of their position is if or when their own children are killed in gun violence.
 
This is NOT the time to turn this tragedy into a political football. How dare you!!

I agree, should have been done a long time ago.
 
This is NOT the time to turn this tragedy into a political football. How dare you!!
Somehow I think the victims and their families would disagree with you.


"...After nearly being killed and becoming permanently disabled as a result of an assassination attempt on Reagan in 1981, Brady became an ardent supporter of gun control."
James Brady - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


Family Of Colorado Shooting Victim Calls For Gun Control Following School Shooting | WBNS-10TV Columbus, Ohio

Movie theater shooting victim pushes for gun control | WTNH.com Connecticut

Governor Hickenlooper: 'The Time Is Right' To Talk Gun Laws



NOW is the time to talk about gun control.
 
It's never the right time to talk about gun control in the midst of an ongoing tragedy. Using tragedy as a political club is not only distasteful, it's disrespectful to the victims and their families, who should be the focus of our concern. So please try to contain yourself.

See, that's the problem. We don't talk about it before the tradedies, we don't talk about it during the tragedies, we don't talk about it after the tragedies. It's not a political issue. It is a problem that needs to be solved to prevent the next tragedy. I think its more disrespectful of the victims to allow thier deaths to be in vain by not talking about what caused their deaths and how we can prevent future tragedies.
 
There is no reason for a citizen to have weapons designed to kill in mass.

What the heck are those, and how do you distinguish these "weapons designed to kill in mass" from other weapons? There are a great many reason for a citizen to own semi-auto rifles.

Me saying this does not mean I think people should only be able to have muzzle loaded guns. I have no problem with sane law abiding citizens having hand guns, rifles, and or shot guns for protection or hunting.

Semi automatic rifles? Or bolt action only? How about youth model 22's? What issue do you have with "semi-auto" because the technology is not "designed to kill people in mass."

I do have a problem with people being able to get online and order thousands of rounds of amo and guns designed to kill in masses in a matter of seconds.

Thousands of rounds of ammo is not much really, especially if you go shooting once or twice a month and go through at least 300 rounds. When it comes to ordering guns online you must have one delivered to an FFL, and go through the regular NICS check and paperwork.

It only takes a few dozen, maybe a few hundred to commit a mass shooting. Amounts that would not raise an eyebrow, but people who go to the range buy much more than that regularly online because its cheaper to buy in bulk. You couldn't in any way limit mass murderers, however any attempt to would restrict responsible citizens who practice safe shooting.

I do have a problem with guns being sold with no background checks. I have a huge problem with people who have a history of violence being able to just go buy a gun and weapon and in a matter of hours kill people.

So you're opposed to the cash and carry of rifles and shotguns? All guns have background checks, only handguns have waiting periods.

Recently, a man in Florida killed a teenager because his music was too loud and he refused to turn it down. If you can't see there is something wrong, then I don't know what to tell you. If we see there is a problem but are not willing to at least try to find a viable solution then you are a big part of the problem.

See here is where we disagree. Of course we who are opposed to gun control abhor violence and see something wrong with an insane person breaking the law and harming someone, especially with a firearm.

As for finding a viable solution, no "common sense gun control" can prevent insane people from doing insane things, criminals will not obey the laws against murder so they will not obey any alleged "viable solution" and all such things do are limit the law abiding gun owner. Much has been passed that still does not stop these mass shootings. In fact evidence indicates that these gun free zones only disarm the law abiding who could make a difference in such target rich environments.

Magazine limits, waiting periods, background checks, all largely ineffective. Outright bans and confiscations are even worse than gun violence. What works is more good people with guns.
 
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There is another issue here. Where does it say that all shooters are mentally ill? What if a person who has a low stress threshold or low emotional tolerance goes in and buys a gun? He would certainly pass any system check we have now. And then one day something happens and he pops off.

How are we going to detect that with the system currently in place. NOt at all. We need better evaluations and longer ones such as a behavioral stress test (about a week of testing), even then.

We just ALL have to admit that this is not working and create a better system instead of living in a delusional world like some or being ostriches.

Just plain stupid.

I agree with you 100%. We need to improve our background checks by including a mental test. We require police officers to pass a mental evaluation before we give them guns. I am not against gun ownership of responsible citizens. The key is to determine who is responsibie enough to own a deadly weapon.
 
This is a terrible tragedy. I didn't hear the news until later in the afternoon, when the death toll and what had happened was pretty much known, and it all rolled over me like a tidal wave. I felt like someone had gut-punched me, I'm sure I turned pale and looked shocked. It is just inconcievable to me that someone could get so wrong in the head (or heart) as to murder a classroom full of little children. Horrendous, inconcievable, evil act.

As a parent it just tore a hole in me... I could so easily imagine myself in the place of the parents who lost a child today, and the utter horror and emptiness they must feel, the terrible way that the question "WHY?" must echo through their souls.

My heart goes out to them, and also my prayers.

Now we have those who are capitalizing on this tragedy to push their agenda, or who are reacting on emotion to call for instant action of some sort, typically gun control, without taking the time to allow emotions to cool and reason to prevail. To those let me say this: in the heat and heartbreak of such a tragedy is NO TIME to try to set public policy.

Wild emotion and heated reactions have no place in legislation.

We have as of yet far too little information to make judgements and decisions that will turn into legislative policy. We have no idea if any form of gun control would have changed the outcome of this tragedy. The odds are it would not have, since guns are readily available on the black market for those who cannot buy legally.

Many other things have a much better chance of actually CHANGING the outcome of such an event... better school security for starters: I have many questions about how he got in armed and why he was not stopped by an armed school resource officer, questions I as yet have no answers for. In the longer term, changing the way we handle mental illness in this country is very important... HOW did someone get this messed up in the head without someone realizing it and taking steps to intervene?

But even so, as I said, this is the wrong time for proposing policy or legislation. It will be days or weeks (or longer) before we have enough information to form an accurate picture of how and why this happened, and what could be done that would ACTUALLY help prevent such things, rather than JUST being feel-good actions that won't really change the situation.

Now is the time to grieve and pray; the time to hug your children and give thanks that they are safe and well; the time to reflect on the preciousness and fragility of life, and to think on those who have lost loved ones today.

Please, don't turn this tragedy into a political football with the blood not even dry and facts few and far between.
 
Please, don't turn this tragedy into a political football with the blood not even dry and facts few and far between.

If we don't turn it into a political football then we don't even talk about it, let alone change it.. How many changes have been made due to the countless shootings we have had.. Be it a shopping mall, a movie theatre, Virginia Tech, Safeway parking lot, or a kindergarten class?? When is it ok to talk about?? When is it ok to make some changes?? How many more children have to die before it is ok to turn this tragedy into a topic of discussion for change?? When?? When it isn't a member of someone else's family or someone else's child, but one of your own??

This is the best time to talk about.. How dare you say those 20 children's lives mean nothing.. To mean the are a scream for change.. So how about we get to it!!
 
If we don't turn it into a political football then we don't even talk about it, let alone change it.. How many changes have been made due to the countless shootings we have had.. Be it a shopping mall, a movie theatre, Virginia Tech, Safeway parking lot, or a kindergarten class?? When is it ok to talk about?? When is it ok to make some changes?? How many more children have to die before it is ok to turn this tragedy into a topic of discussion for change?? When?? When it isn't a member of someone else's family or someone else's child, but one of your own??

This is the best time to talk about.. How dare you say those 20 children's lives mean nothing.. To mean the are a scream for change.. So how about we get to it!!


First of all, I didn't say those 20 children's lives mean nothing... and only a huge partisan hack would dare imply I said such a thing when I didn't.

I try not to take things personally on this forum but that **** was totally uncalled for and insulting as hell.


Who the **** do you think you are putting such heinous words in my mouth? You sure as hell don't know me. You apparently have no clue what I was talking about... or else you just don't care, because you're too caught up in the drama of your personal agenda to know **** from shlock.

I said that a time of heated passions and heartbreaking loss was no time to try to set public policy, and it isn't. Legislating from hysteria never solves anything and usually creates more problems.

Get a clue.
 
First of all, I didn't say those 20 children's lives mean nothing... and only a huge partisan hack would dare imply I said such a thing when I didn't.

I try not to take things personally on this forum but that **** was totally uncalled for and insulting as hell.


Who the **** do you think you are putting such heinous words in my mouth? You sure as hell don't know me. You apparently have no clue what I was talking about... or else you just don't care, because you're too caught up in the drama of your personal agenda to know **** from shlock.

I said that a time of heated passions and heartbreaking loss was no time to try to set public policy, and it isn't. Legislating from hysteria never solves anything and usually creates more problems.

Get a clue.

You have to understand that a lot of people are getting tired of the 'Let's not turn this into a political football' people.. When do we talk about this issue?? How many people have to die before we can turn this into a political football..

You get a clue!! How many laws were changed in Virginia after 33 people were killed at Virginia tech.??? NONE!!! Not a single law?? So you tell all of us when you will be ready to talk about change in the gun laws?? When will you be ready to take some responsibility for your own views???

When are you willing to man up to reality.. Instead of calling someone a political hack.. You are damn right it, it is an emotional time.. 18 CHILDREN are dead!! And all you can say is 'Let's not turn this in to a politcal football??' And you tell me to get a clue??

The problem is, if we don't talk about it now, it never gets talked about.. And you know it.. That is the problem with you right wingers.. It is never a good time to talk about it.. Just as long as it is your family that is killed you are ok with it..

So tell me I am wrong Goshin!! Tell me when you will be willing to talk about some dramatic changes to the current gun laws in hopes of at least keeping events like this down to a minimum.. Instead of a several times a year occurance it is now..

There was no insult in my post.. I simply called it like I see it.. You would rather hope and prey than do something that could prevent more people dying.. Read your post yourself.. To you this issue is just a political football.. What an insulting thing to say about 27 people that died today.. It is sure comforting to know that you see them as a politcal football.. You are right it is insulting.. But you are not the one being insulted..

We should talk about this issue now.. Now is the best time.. Because so many people have died.. And right wingers just can't bring upon themselves to actually seriously talk about this problem..
 
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You have to understand that a lot of people are getting of the 'Let's not turn this into a political football' people.. When do we talk about this issue?? How many people have to die before we can turn this into a political football..

You get a clue!! How many laws were changed in Virginia after 33 people were killed at Virginia tech.??? NONE!!! Not a single law?? So you tell all of us when you will be ready to talk about change in the gun laws?? When will you be ready to take some responsibility for your own views???

When are you willing to man up to reality.. Instead of calling someone a political hack.. You are damn right it, it is an emotional time.. 18 CHILDREN



Legislating from hysteria is foolish... and your posts certainly sound hysterical, and not in the funny way either.

Fine, if you're going to insist on instantly politicizing a tragedy with dead children.... tell me what gun control law would have prevented this crime, and I'll tell you why it is unlikely to work.


Real solutions that will actually make a real difference are not going to be found in sound-bite hysteria, but in careful and reasoned thought after the passions have cooled.
 
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