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Two Gunmen at Newtown, Conn., Elementary School Shooting, One Dead [W:449/490/584]

Mycroft said:
But it's the one you mentioned...so it's the one I responded to.

You...bringing up your imagined "Things We Hate" list is nothing more than a non-response. Try addressing what I said to you.
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Oh it is a response but like another harump right wing member it isn't the one you like. You are just another nit picker.
 
Saboteur said:
Well for those that do not ignore me.

There is supported evidence that smoking a cigarette will give me a terminal disease resulting in my death, perhaps before 'my time'. Also if I smoke in doors the second hand smoke could potentialy affect the health of someone in the same room in the same way according to unsupported evidence. Therefore my personal choice to smoke must be regulated to where I cannot smoke in public due to the danger to others.

Meanwhile, your personal choice to own a gun, which is a tool that has no other purpose on this earth but to affect the health of everyone it is pointed at won't even be considered for debate just because we're all supposed to trust that you won't use it to kill someone. Well I'm sorry but I don't trust you because you have a gun which tells me you will kill someone. Because in the light of this and all the other tragic shootings this month alone, pretty much tells me that And that in light of all the other tragic shootings this month alone pretty much tells me that
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All people that smoke in under ventilated areas "shoot" people will their smoke. Not everyone who has a gun, even in public, does. Your comparison is not a good one.
 
What a terrible tragedy. There have been so many shooting incidences recently, it seems like there's one every day. Condolences to all of the familes who have lost innocent loved ones. Seems especially hard this time of year. :(
 
Dr_Patrick said:
I don't think guns should be banned, for the record. I think more needs to be done to prevent mentally ill people from getting their hands on them so easily, though.
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I own a shotgun, a 22, and two pistols. I live in a very rural area and I use the rifles for predators. I would have a very hard time getting a rifle into a building that had 'watched' doors. The pistols, I have used for predators(when I pulled up and a skunk was in the process of tearing a hole in my dog on the porch). I can see a use for them(pistols) but not so much. Mostly I have taken the pistol(tiny 22) with me on road trips when it was just me and the kids. I would give up my pistols if it meant that every pistol was melted down and made into something less destructive. You are right, guns are made to kill. There is a time for everything, including killing(rabies outbreaks in rural areas, coons eating my chickens etc), The problem is that I would give up my pistols because agreeing to be one of "everyone" would decrease the gun violence many times over, but "everyone", the ones who would do harm with them, aren't going to give them up any more than they have given up any other crime. I don't know how he got a rifle in the door unless no one was watching the door. Our school recently began locking the doors and now has a camera and a button in the office. They turned it off recently(laziness) I bet it comes back on now.
I do understand the point, guns don't kill people, but people can kill more people faster with a gun than with a knife or golf club or rock. I also know that I would be at the mercy of my environment without one.
 
Caine said:
Gun Control isn't the answer.

I fail to see how you can blame the tool for what happened. I don't care if there is this and the mall shooting, or 15 more shootings after this... it will NEVER be the GUN'S fault.



I do find it interesting that we have had such an increase in shootings here lately......very convenient for the gun control crowd.
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HA! Why don't you let Fox News and World News Daily on your discovery! It's time for a new cycle of conspiracy nuttery / theories!
 
Saboteur said:
Well for those that do not ignore me.

There is supported evidence that smoking a cigarette will give me a terminal disease resulting in my death, perhaps before 'my time'. Also if I smoke in doors the second hand smoke could potentialy affect the health of someone in the same room in the same way according to unsupported evidence. Therefore my personal choice to smoke must be regulated to where I cannot smoke in public due to the danger to others.

Meanwhile, your personal choice to own a gun, which is a tool that has no other purpose on this earth but to adversly affect the health of everyone it is pointed at won't even be considered for debate just because we're all supposed to trust that you won't use it to kill someone. Well I'm sorry but I don't trust you because you have a gun which tells me you will kill someone and in the light of this and all the other tragic shootings this month alone as evidence, it is in fact gauranteed.

This means that your personal choice to own a gun must be regulated to the point that it be rendered inoperable due to the fact that it is a danger to others.
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My ownership/possession of a gun does not harm you.
My owernship/possession of a gun does not place you in a condition of clear present and immediate danger.

Thus, your argument fails.
 
notquiteright said:
Actually I remember Ronnie Reagan, hallowed be his name, as turning many mentally ill out of Gubmint run 'nut farms' which were closed down. I thought 'conservatives' hated the liberals because they want to restrict firearm ownership to a wide variety of 'coddled' trouble-makers.

Where do we draw the line on restricting firearm ownership due the mental illness, trouble making, criminal behavior?

I don't see arming teachers as a well thought out 'conservative' solution. Imagine arming one of the biggest remaining Unions left in this country. :shock:

I don't see many 'conservative' CCW's stepping forward to start teaching in the public school system and frankly not so sure many teachers would wish to add to their classroom burden with firearm instruction and routine quals. I don't see any insurance company underwriting a school district where armed teachers are not trained at least as well as rookie cops in legal issues, marksmanship, and unlike CCWs they will be expected to move TOWARD armed gunman, not merely stand their ground in self defense. Bit more to that than just running down the hall waving your .380 in the air...
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I don't give a damn what Reagan did a billion years ago before we had school shootings. If you are not willing to address the underlying cause of violence, then I don't really care what you have to say about guns because that is precisely the reason nothing gets done--liberals afraid to lose the crack vote are serving this nation well apparently. Some people might actually believe they need their guns now more than ever because of the growing violence in the face of the refusal of the left to do anything meaningful other than whine about guns......
 
I don't believe it was a conspiracy. I believe it was a selfish indignant, self righteous little t*rd who was jealous of his parents not paying enough attention to him.
 
jakiejakester said:
HA! Why don't you let Fox News and World News Daily on your discovery! It's time for a new cycle of conspiracy nuttery / theories!
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Oh, your not the least bit interested in how seemingly normal people go completely nuts with little to no warning?

Example: The Miami Zombie (Who turned out to have just a small bit of pot in his system) who was an apparently normal guy on a trip and decides to start eating a homeless dude's face off?
 
ThePlayDrive said:
I'm getting sick of this ****. These kinds of shootings are becoming too regular. I don't know who, but who ever has the job of examining patterns in the shooters needs to get working and find a way to help stop this. And I don't want to hear any BS about "well, some people are bad and you can't stop them." That argument is almost as bad as "God did it."
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This is totally idiot, random violence cannot be stopped.
 
Saboteur said:
On the grounds that guns have no other function than to kill. It should be assumed that if someone wants a gun they will use it for its intended purpose.
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Yes but what's the context murder or self defense?
 
notquiteright said:
Oh it is a response but like another harump right wing member it isn't the one you like. You are just another nit picker.
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It's actually a typical liberal response. When you can't cogently respond to a comment directed toward you, you respond with something that has no relevance.

You would do more for your credibility if you had just remained silent.
 
tessaesque said:
How about after the bodies of DEAD CHILDREN go cold, for the love of Christ! These families can't even begin processing the loss of life and people are raging over an issue that is already beat into the goddamn ground. If I were one of those parents I'd tell every zealot from both sides to shut up for a minute. How disrespectful.
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I see your point; that was not my intention and I wouldn't actually go up to these parents and say this. However, I don't live in that area, it hasn't affected me personally, but it still makes me upset and I still feel terrible for the victims. I guess it's just natural for me, someone who lives thousands of miles away, to think about gun control when I hear about this. In fact, whenever I hear about a shooting, my mind immediately jumps to the issue of gun control, that's just how I am. This is, after all, a political debate forum, I'm just expressing my point of view.
 
YoungConserv said:
And it's a lot easier to defend yourself with a fire arm a luxury the ten adults today where not afforded.
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Yeah, right! Imagine how many fewer people would be dead in the USA if we had gun control laws like England does? In England if lovers get in a fight one of them doesn't pull out a gun and kill the other one. In England if people get in a fight on the street they don't pull out a gun and kill. The amount of real people that would not be killed each year if we had England's gun control laws is HUGE.
 
Fisher said:
I don't give a damn what Reagan did a billion years ago before we had school shootings. If you are not willing to address the underlying cause of violence, then I don't really care what you have to say about guns because that is precisely the reason nothing gets done--liberals afraid to lose the crack vote are serving this nation well apparently. Some people might actually believe they need their guns now more than ever because of the growing violence in the face of the refusal of the left to do anything meaningful other than whine about guns......
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LMAO, I am old and was on active duty when Reagan was President, it wasn't quite a BILLION years ago... ;)

Good broad strokes but what do 'we' do about the underlying causes of violence? Ummmm just what are they again? :confused:

Now 'conservatives' have fought tooth and nail against dealing with trouble-makers and the mentally ill, a broad brush there paints men who's wife takes out a protective order to get divorce help. A domestic incident when 20 gets a man banned from firearm ownership 20 years later.

But I did ask a question, just where do we draw the line? Not political white wash of underlying whatever, real lines please....
 
Cilogy said:
I see your point; that was not my intention and I wouldn't actually go up to these parents and say this. However, I don't live in that area, it hasn't affected me personally, but it still makes me upset and I still feel terrible for the victims. I guess it's just natural for me, someone who lives thousands of miles away, to think about gun control when I hear about this. In fact, whenever I hear about a shooting, my mind immediately jumps to the issue of gun control, that's just how I am. This is, after all, a political debate forum, I'm just expressing my point of view.
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What we should be thinking about is why on earth this locked down school buzzed this guy in without even having a look at him or the two huge guns he was carrying with him. Safety measure in place. Ignored. That's the real lesson here....for tomorrow, next week and next year.
 
MaggieD said:
What we should be thinking about is why on earth this locked down school buzzed this guy in without even having a look at him or the two huge guns he was carrying with him. Safety measure in place. Ignored. That's the real lesson here....for tomorrow, next week and next year.
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True, and though it's terrible that even the principal was killed, that school disctrict is probably gonna get a lot of flack for this, and I almost think they deserve to.
 
"After a shooting spree, they always want to take the guns away from the people who didn't do it. I sure as hell wouldn't want to live in a society where the only people allowed guns are the police and the military.". - William S. Burroughs
 
Cilogy said:
I see your point; that was not my intention and I wouldn't actually go up to these parents and say this. However, I don't live in that area, it hasn't affected me personally, but it still makes me upset and I still feel terrible for the victims. I guess it's just natural for me, someone who lives thousands of miles away, to think about gun control when I hear about this. In fact, whenever I hear about a shooting, my mind immediately jumps to the issue of gun control, that's just how I am. This is, after all, a political debate forum, I'm just expressing my point of view.
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Of course your mind instantly jumps to gun control...

Why else do you think so many shootings are happening lately?
 
Mycroft said:
If this is what you understand "conservatives" hate liberals for, then you don't know much about conservatives.
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Typical right wing whine that is asked no question to be responded to, just nonsense spouted out without thought or reason...
 
I want to commend the work of WFSB. I've been watching their live, online coverage of this event since this morning. Their coverage has been comprehensive. They have been careful to express whether the information they've broadcast is rumor, speculation or confirmed. They are a class act.

You can see their ongoing live coverage here: Channel 3 Eyewitness News Livestream - WFSB 3 Connecticut
 
dirtpoorchris said:
All people that smoke in under ventilated areas "shoot" people will their smoke. Not everyone who has a gun, even in public, does. Your comparison is not a good one.
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What do you do with your gun? Use it for a hammer? a Light switch? Back scratcher? Visual/tactile stimulation?
Listen buddy, I've witnessed the murder of an innocent bystander who was the 22 year old mother of two. At least 3 lives were ruined and I can't get the image of a woman being shot in the face out of my mind because of your precious right to own a tool of destruction so you can feel 'safe' or 'tough' or whatever it does for you.

Besides my point is that everyone who has a gun will kill someone because they wanted to when they bought the infernal thing. Admit it you want to kill someone you fantasize about it all the time. You're probably wishing you could shoot me and everybody else that doesn't agree with you right?
 
notquiteright said:
LMAO, I am old and was on active duty when Reagan was President, it wasn't quite a BILLION years ago... ;)

Good broad strokes but what do 'we' do about the underlying causes of violence? Ummmm just what are they again? :confused:

Now 'conservatives' have fought tooth and nail against dealing with trouble-makers and the mentally ill, a broad brush there paints men who's wife takes out a protective order to get divorce help. A domestic incident when 20 gets a man banned from firearm ownership 20 years later.

But I did ask a question, just where do we draw the line? Not political white wash of underlying whatever, real lines please....
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Maybe if these madhouses didn't lobotomize so many of their patients and build their facilities over underground railroads they would still exist today. (referring to Northern State facility in Washington State)
 
Saboteur said:
What do you do with your gun? Use it for a hammer? a Light switch? Back scratcher? Visual/tactile stimulation?
Listen buddy, I've witnessed the murder of an innocent bystander who was the 22 year old mother of two. At least 3 lives were ruined and I can't get the image of a woman being shot in the face out of my mind because of your precious right to own a tool of destruction so you can feel 'safe' or 'tough' or whatever it does for you.

Besides my point is that everyone who has a gun will kill someone because they wanted to when they bought the infernal thing. Admit it you want to kill someone you fantasize about it all the time. You're probably wishing you could shoot me and everybody else that doesn't agree with you right?
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You have defeated yourself with this.... I hope I NEVER, EVER, EVER have to kill anyone in my life. I think even if my life was threatened I would aim for legs, shoulders, or try to escape if I thought I could.

Deep down I believe if you kill someone eternal life is no longer open to you (through heaven if you want to call it that). Although I can also admit that if I was in a life threatening situation im not sure if I could control my instincts for self preservation.

"Should you see your maker's face tonight,
Look him in the eye.
Look him in the eye and tell him,
I never lived a lie, never took a life,
But surely saved one." ~ TooL
 
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