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Democrats threaten violence on Michigan House floor

How does personal choice lower wages? The ones concerned about union busting are the union management as the workers will still have their jobs
Taking away union influence does lower wages.
That is why the Koch bros fund such actions, that is why you support it, you are a corporatist too.
 
Yes, but we're not talking about golden parachutes and such for corporate executives, are we? I suggest you steer away from this topic for the sake of what is left of your failed argument.

No, we aren't...is it your assertion that middle management are awarded 'golden parachutes'?

Unfortunately I have allowed you to steer me away from my original argument…Your original point was based on the a presumption that the 'scab' cannot get a better deal than the union for HIS individual compensation. Consider if the 'scab' did individually negotiate a better compensation package AND through fair negotiation discovery the union finds out the 'scab's' package then moves their goal to his should the 'scab' then receive the negotiation fee the union would have justified?

To which your response was ‘I can see this happening in fantasyland’ obviously subliminally admitting failure then diverting me into some rabbit hole…my bad…carry on.
 
Umm get the facts Rick Perry created more minimum wage jobs than threst of the country because of right to work. You keep talking about fact yet you provide no links, really all your doing at this point is blowing hot air. Texas is anti Union state created by Republicans we all know the other crap Perry and Republicans have done. Do we need to get in to the wasted money on toll roads. Poor education bad health insurance, Alll do to right to work.

Do you really think that any politician can create a job? Really?
 
I don't bother with anti-union propaganda from Koch supported websites, yes, I do ignore this tripe.

Again, this is yet another tangent away from the fact that these effort in MI are state level actions by the Koch brothers to lower worker wages. You support these actions because you are a corporatist too. It is that simple.

You're wrong...

Do you even know what "right to work" means?

It means that an individual has the right to NOT join a labor union if they don't want to. Which of course means the labor unions will be ripping people off less, and the labor unions don't want that to happen. As a matter of fact labor unions are opposed to "right to work" because they damn well know their unions are nothing more than a racket and if the individual has the right not to join their union they generally wont. They will pocket those union dues instead of the union taking them, they will go to work when the union strikes... You know why? because all hazards the unions claim they're protecting the worker from are already federal law - in reality the unions do nothing more than extort money out of businesses via threats of work stoppages. I suppose their leverage would go away if people had the RIGHT to NOT join a union..

Now, with that said I would be willing to wager my life on the notion that the majority of the simpletons protesting pro-union even understand a damn thing I said, which is pretty funny considering that is probably why they need unions in the first place - because those pro-union clowns in Michigan are absolute idiots, hence they need the labor unions because they would be fired in 2 seconds if they didn't have unions protecting them.
 
I really hate having to repeat myself:

No one is forced to join a union. However, a scab will be required to pay 85% of the standard union dues in the form of a negotiations fee as return for the union wage he is earning, a wage which the union obtained at its own expense.

What "Right to Work" really amounts to is giving the scab the right to collect a union wage without paying the negotiations fee, thus garnering a significantly higher wage for the scab than the dues-paying union member. Obviously, the intent of so-called "Right to Work" is to encourage union members to jump ship and join the scabs by giving a financial incentive to do so.

"Right to Work" is just a veiled method of union-busting.

Is this different than someone getting government benefits without having ever paid taxes?
 
Again, that is not any unions webpage, it is a Koch bros front organization.

Edit, sorry, got my corporatist mixed up, it is a Rick Berman front group.

So the site is misquoting union management salaries? Prove it?
 
Taking away union influence does lower wages.
That is why the Koch bros fund such actions, that is why you support it, you are a corporatist too.

That is your opinion yet you have not provided me one corporation that pays what you would consider a non liveable wage?
 
So the site is misquoting union management salaries? Prove it?
I said it before, I am not going to waste my time with anti-union front sites that are funded directly by corporatists like Rick Berman.

Whether you choose to believe the propaganda is up to you, but you would being a corporatist yourself.

I'm still asking, what does this tangent have to do with the fact that all of this is simply designed to lower wages.
 
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No, we aren't...is it your assertion that middle management are awarded 'golden parachutes'?

Unfortunately I have allowed you to steer me away from my original argument…Your original point was based on the a presumption that the 'scab' cannot get a better deal than the union for HIS individual compensation. Consider if the 'scab' did individually negotiate a better compensation package AND through fair negotiation discovery the union finds out the 'scab's' package then moves their goal to his should the 'scab' then receive the negotiation fee the union would have justified?

We already have considered this, Dickieboy, and have deemed it pure fantasy since no industrial size employer is going to individually negotiate legally binding contracts with every one of its individual employees. The expense alone would make this impractical, if not impossible. Thus, your hypothetical can only occur in fantasyland. This is the point.

To which your response was ‘I can see this happening in fantasyland’ obviously subliminally admitting failure then diverting me into some rabbit hole…my bad…carry on.

Ah, the Svengali effect. You're not wrong, I'm just making you believe that you're wrong through the power of suggestion. :lamo

This has been fun, you've made me laugh and all, but I've got many errands to run today. Bye.
 
That is your opinion yet you have not provided me one corporation that pays what you would consider a non liveable wage?
I don't know why you think bringing up another losing tangent does your argument any good, and it is not opinion, it is a fact that "RTW" states have lower average wages. Why else would corporatists push and fund such legislation?
 
Again, that is not any unions webpage, it is a Koch bros front organization.

Edit, sorry, got my corporatist mixed up, it is a Rick Berman front group.

Are the numbers in error?
 
We already have considered this, Dickieboy, and have deemed it pure fantasy since no industrial size employer is going to individually negotiate legally binding contracts with every one of its individual employees. The expense alone would make this impractical, if not impossible. Thus, your hypothetical can only occur in fantasyland. This is the point.

There you go building strawmen…are the ONLY employers ‘industrial size’? Does every employer, regardless of size, not hire their employees? Are not verbal employment agreements binding? Are employees not individually interviewed (at least by someone)? In MANY of the non-union facilities that I have been involved in (including some in non-RTW states) individual employees rates were based on production which varied their individual incomes and yes these were individual non-union negotiated contracts. Part of my agreement in nondisclosure prevents me from providing detailed information but it does occur.
 
I said it before, I am not going to waste my time with anti-union front sites that are funded directly by corporatists like Rick Berman.

Whether you choose to believe the propaganda is up to you, but you would being a corporatist yourself.

I'm still asking, what does this tangent have to do with the fact that all of this is simply designed to lower wages.

Amazing how the Koch Brothers infiltrated the Labor Dept.

Not exactly the 99%: Top union leaders
 
How do you know what Wal-Mart pays and what do you define as a minimum wage? You have no idea what the average or even the median salary is at Wal-Mart

There is a thread on Wall Mart and what they pay, sheesh:roll:
 
Are the numbers in error?
If union org's have problem with leadership salaries, that is entirely their own issue, it has nothing to with the fact that union busting efforts are designed to lower wages.
 
We already have considered this, Dickieboy, and have deemed it pure fantasy since no industrial size employer is going to individually negotiate legally binding contracts with every one of its individual employees. The expense alone would make this impractical, if not impossible. Thus, your hypothetical can only occur in fantasyland. This is the point.
Further on this point, are employees not reviewed individually regardless of union affiliation or not? Why? Is this not equally ‘impractical, if not impossible’?
 
Please give a dollar amount that you consider to be a living wage. Thank you.

About three times what the average one bedroom apartment costs.

Rule of thumb for what one can afford as rent is 30% (iirc).
 
How do you know what Wal-Mart pays and what do you define as a minimum wage? You have no idea what the average or even the median salary is at Wal-Mart
You brought up "living" wage, now it is minimum wage. Min wage is not a living wage, and huge majority of WM workers rely on govt assistance, obviously they don't pay a living wage. But keep moving the goalposts around, you always do.
 
Yeah, I know, and I corrected myself...."unionfacts.com" is a Rick Berman anti-union front group.

I don't need to be told via a "fact" site what is true and false. I can form my conclusions on a topic to the words and actions of both sides of the issue.

I used to be member of a union.... Quite frankly I'm sick of the pro-union crowed pretending like anyone who is opposed to the union tactics or is pro-capitalist somehow was never a union member and is certainly not blue collar working class.

People should have the right to join a union or to opt out of joining a union....

I would love for you progressive pro-union folks to tell me why someone shouldn't have the choice as an individual to NOT join the union, or should be required to join a union just so they can put food on the table?

People shouldn't be required to pay someone just so they can work, workers shouldn't be required to strike because the union tells them to strike. Those that do take orders from the unions should be labeled as robot zombies because that's exactly what they are when they strike because they're told to despite the fact many workers are more than content with their job, salaries and benefits.
 
About three times what the average one bedroom apartment costs.

Rule of thumb for what one can afford as rent is 30% (iirc).

So, what would that be in NYC, Van Horn, Tx, San Jose, Ca, Brazil, In? And, how would that wage effect the price of a can of refried beans?
 
I don't need to be told via a "fact" site what is true and false. I can form my conclusions on a topic to the words and actions of both sides of the issue.
Dude, anyone that believes that McD flippers in Chi earn "$12" per need a better source of info.
 
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