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Judge finds NC "Choose Life" plate unconstitutioonal

Simon W. Moon said:
so the first amendment only deal with freedom of speech you say?
Perhaps you should heed the advice of the following poster:
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Now you're just being absurd.

This case has nothing to do with establishing a religion. Or the free expression of religion. Or peaceful assembly. Or the press.

Technically, being a nonsense lawsuit, it had nothing to do with abridging freedom of speech, either, but that's your untenable claim, not mine.
 
Simon W. Moon said:
We're drifting into your pet issue?
Is that why you have trouble staying on topic of govt controlled public venues for political expression?
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Sorry that I can type more than two complete sentences while addressing my concerns with an issue thoroughly, and in an articulate manner.

Sorry if I just cant address you with a simplistic two sentences.
 
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Mr.Nick said:
I could care less if a pro-choice group wanted a plate that said "pro-choice." Apparently that has already happened, and they were (wrongly) shot down.
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I couldn't care much less about what you could care less about.
Mr.Nick said:
The government has no right to interpret slogans - we don't need the government defining language for us.
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1) The courts looked to the people who brought the "Choose Life" slogan to the state to interpret it.
2) The government did not define language.
3) Courts have to interpret things all the time.

Mr.Nick said:
Furthermore this is so goddamn stupid considering bumper stickers are available that read: "pro-life" and "pro-choice."
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The fact that there are bumperstickers in the world is irrelevant to the question of whether or not the govt should make forums for political expression which it controls available to all of its citizens.
 
Mr.Nick said:
I could care less if a pro-choice group wanted a plate that said "pro-choice." Apparently that has already happened, and they were (wrongly) shot down.
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Disagreed. If the people of North Carolina wanted a state legislature that would approve of pro-abortion messages on custom state license plates, they would have voted for such a legislature. They did not. There is no obligation on the part of the legislature to allow any custom license playes whatsoever, and they certainly could not hope to have a plate for every fringe minority group.
 
JayDubya said:
Now you're just being absurd.
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It seems that you're the one who posted that the only way the legislature of NC would run afoul of the text of the First Amendment.
JayDubya said:
And I say again that in no way was the legislature of North Carolina abridging the freedom of speech of its citizens... Which is the only way it would actually run afoul of the text of the First Amendment.
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I found that assertion absurd as well. Especially from someone who has emphasized his knowledge of the FA.
But, I didn't make that statement.
:shrug:
 
Nice selective quoting, there.
 
Simon W. Moon said:
So a meager attempt at a cursory Google could never turn up info like this, right?
Latest Audited Financial Statement
http://www.plannedparenthood.org/files/PPFA_FY_11_990_-_public_disclosure.pdf
PPFA Annual Report
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I'm an accountant (at least trained accountant) and I know how easy it is to screw with the books.

Shifting money is so damn easy it's pathetic... PP could use the damn money for medical instruments, list it as such and put the abortion costs under that - there really is nothing stopping them from doing that either.

Hell they could report a abortion as a vagina exam...

I love how fraud doesn't exist in the progressive mind but when it does or is proven they somehow will attempt to justify it - which you will promptly attempt to do after you read this post.
 
JayDubya said:
There is no obligation on the part of the legislature to allow any custom license playes whatsoever, and they certainly could not hope to have a plate for every fringe minority group.
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The legislature is free to not offer any special license plates at all.
and they are free to offer special license plates for most every political expression which the people of NC wish to have. They are not free to offer special license plates to some but not all.
 
The SCOTUS has allowed for time, place, and manner restrictions that are content neutral. To me this could be both a place or a manner restriction. Either way, North Carolina only requires back plates last I heard so get an Choose Life plate and stick it on the front. Put on all the bumper stickers you want. Have your car wrapped in images of aborted babies if you so desire. I think that personalized plates and theme plates are little more than a huge waste of money that the state will gladly take from you.
 
Mr.Nick said:
I'm an accountant (at least trained accountant) and I know how easy it is to screw with the books.
Shifting money is so damn easy it's pathetic... PP could use the damn money for medical instruments, list it as such and put the abortion costs under that - there really is nothing stopping them from doing that either.
Hell they could report a abortion as a vagina exam...
I love how fraud doesn't exist in the progressive mind but when it does they somehow will attempt to justify it - which you will promptly attempt to do after you read this post.
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So, we're going from they keep their books "sealed"to the new assertion that they play funny with their books?
 
Mr.Nick said:
I'm an accountant (at least trained accountant) and I know how easy it is to screw with the books.

Shifting money is so damn easy it's pathetic... PP could use the damn money for medical instruments, list it as such and put the abortion costs under that - there really is nothing stopping them from doing that either.

Hell they could report a abortion as a vagina exam...

I love how fraud doesn't exist in the progressive mind but when it does or is proven they somehow will attempt to justify it - which you will promptly attempt to do after you read this post.
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Wow. That's some pretty significant cognitive drift you're engaging in. You've shifted from "PP does use public money to fund abortions" to "well... maybe they're cooking the books and that's why it doesn't look like that's happening." Hilarious.

Also still off topic. Really really off topic.
 
JayDubya said:
Nice selective quoting, there.
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Do you wish to say that I left out a relevant part of your statement which changes the meaning of what I quoted?
If so, you may.
But I will ask you to provide that relevant part of your statement which changes the meaning of what I quoted.
 
JayDubya said:
Disagreed. If the people of North Carolina wanted a state legislature that would approve of pro-abortion messages on custom state license plates, they would have voted for such a legislature. They did not. There is no obligation on the part of the legislature to allow any custom license playes whatsoever, and they certainly could not hope to have a plate for every fringe minority group.
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Why the hell would a "pro-life" initiative even be on the ballot? Sure it is a state issue but it is a petition issue that was sent directly to the state government.

If the petition meets the standard requirements it is introduced on the floor and it will be voted on, if it is passed then it is "law" however it can be challenged in court and this seems to be the case here.
 
Aderleth said:
Wow. That's some pretty significant cognitive drift you're engaging in. You've shifted from "PP does use public money to fund abortions" to "well... maybe they're cooking the books and that's why it doesn't look like that's happening." Hilarious.

Also still off topic. Really really off topic.
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Oh, yeah I forgot every democrat and every public funded organization is 100% honest and republicans are the liars..

Nancy Pelosi is George flippin Washington....

Yeah, keep on believing our government doesn't fund abortions with tax dollars.
 
Mr.Nick said:
Oh, yeah I forgot every democrat and every public funded organization is 100% honest and republicans are the liars..
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That seems unlikely. Although it's an admirable attempt to continue to completely derail this thread.

Mr.Nick said:
Yeah, keep on believing our government doesn't fund abortions with tax dollars.
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Well, since the evidence tends to suggest that's the case, and you've offered absolutely nothing beyond speculation to counter that evidence, I will continue to do so.
 
Mr.Nick said:
Oh, yeah I forgot every democrat and every public funded organization is 100% honest and republicans are the liars..
Nancy Pelosi is George flippin Washington....
Yeah, keep on believing our government doesn't fund abortions with tax dollars.
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Drifting further and further away from the topic at hand are ya?

Maybe you need some other threads to fully impart your wisdoms.
 
Simon W. Moon said:
Again, the issue isn't about the gov "endorsing political speech." The issue us that govt controlled venues for public political speech must be available to all of the citizens.
Though you're getting warmer.
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Given that the plate's message is ultimately chosen and approved by the legislature through passage of an amendment, I don't see how this is public political speech, it's essentially the State of NC's political speech.
 
Taylor said:
Given that the plate's message is ultimately chosen and approved by the legislature through passage of an amendment, I don't see how this is public political speech, it's essentially the State of NC's political speech.
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It's not. They don't just have the one plate, they have a bunch of them. Essentially what they've done is to supply the public with the means to communicate the message they (individual members of the public) want to communicate. Hence, it's a public forum created by the government for public speech. The opinion goes into this issue in some detail.
 
Simon W. Moon said:
So, we're going from they keep their books "sealed"to the new assertion that they play funny with their books?
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Both...

Once is in the correct columns then you show the book off.

I've seen cooked books before, I'm not a CPA tho, but what I did and recommended was nothing but "creative accounting advice."
 
Simon W. Moon said:
Drifting further and further away from the topic at hand are ya?

Maybe you need some other threads to fully impart your wisdoms.
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You want to talk about license plates or the philosophy behind the issue at hand.
 
Aderleth said:
It's not. They don't just have the one plate, they have a bunch of them. Essentially what they've done is to supply the public with the means to communicate the message they (individual members of the public) want to communicate.
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Nope. Hence the legislative process and need to approve every word put on the plate.
 
Taylor said:
Given that the plate's message is ultimately chosen and approved by the legislature through passage of an amendment, I don't see how this is public political speech, it's essentially the State of NC's political speech.
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The court heard that issue and addressed that in the ruling. A link has been provided up thread. Also a link to the ruling is available from the article linked in the OP.
 
Mr.Nick said:
Both...
Once is in the correct columns then you show the book off.
I've seen cooked books before, I'm not a CPA tho, but what I did and recommended was nothing but "creative accounting advice."
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So the books are sealed and available via Google. I must used the word sealed differently than you do.
 
Taylor said:
Nope. Hence the legislative process and need to approve every word put on the plate.
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You obviously haven't read the opinion. You might want to do so before commenting further.
 
BayToBay said:
It's not. The harm is in that you think only your motto should be an option.

Your argument is dishonest. It is clear what "choose life" implies to any informed person.
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Well it can 'imply' anything to anyone who lacks comprehension skills but in my case "Choose Life" means "Choose Life", and I'm not outraged at that point of view.
 
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