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Egypt's Muslim Brotherhood accused of paying gangs to rape women[W:58]

Wiggen said:
Sorry, I couldn't read anything after that opening. If you aren't right wing in your posts, the pope is a southern baptist.
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I definitely lean to the right but part company over issues like abortion, population, the environment, religious fundamentalism etc. and I tow no partys line.
 
Blue_State said:
Not get involved...if we wanted to get involved, put boots on the ground.

I voted for not getting involved and cut off funding.
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We didn't get involved, unless you count statements as involvement.
 
Fisher said:
Yes. That is exactly it. You may not realize it because it does not match your panties, but if the Suez falls into the hands of radicals, there will have to be a war in which, you know, people die and stuff, to re-open the canal to western commerce. But hey, as long as they die free, why should we have the foresight to avoid their deaths?
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They won't close the Suez Canal... Tourism is dead.. and Egypt earns 5 billion a year from the Suez Canal.
 
Fisher said:
Yes. That is exactly it. You may not realize it because it does not match your panties, but if the Suez falls into the hands of radicals, there will have to be a war in which, you know, people die and stuff, to re-open the canal to western commerce. But hey, as long as they die free, why should we have the foresight to avoid their deaths?
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"Radicals" or not why the hell would the ruling power in Egypt close the Suez Canal? That's ridiculous.

Call them "radicals" all you want, Mursi and the Muslim Brotherhood are rational actors. Their primary goals are self-interested - gaining power and influence and ensuring the long term survival of their regime. Closing the Suez Canal is directly detrimental to both those goals.
 
the_recruit said:
"Radicals" or not why the hell would the ruling power in Egypt close the Suez Canal? That's ridiculous.

Call them "radicals" all you want, Mursi and the Muslim Brotherhood are rational actors. Their primary goals are self-interested - gaining power and influence and ensuring the long term survival of their regime. Closing the Suez Canal is directly detrimental to both those goals.
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Yes they are rational actors..

Lebanon: Something curious is happening to Sunni Islam

The Muslim News
 
Actually Obama has not been silent on this issue...
Obama tells Morsi violence in Egypt 'unacceptable'
"The White House says President Barack Obama has called Egyptian President Mohammed Morsi to express "deep concern" about the deaths and injuries of protesters in Egypt.

A White House statement says the president told Morsi that he and other political leaders in Egypt must make clear to their supporters that violence is unacceptable.

The statement Thursday night said that Obama welcomed Morsi's call for a dialogue with opposition leaders in Egypt but stressed that such a dialogue should occur without preconditions. "
 
Wiggen said:
Right Wing Definition of 'real leadership' - intervention in the domestic affairs of another nation in order to benefit the United States. The Caveat to that definition is that it only constitutes 'real leadership' if it turns out well. If it doesn't, it's bad leadership.
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You are talking about Neoconservatives here, but you forget that there are also Neoliberals. They don't do it by invading other nations, but by economic activities that cause children to starve to death. But the Neoliberal goal is exactly the same as the Neoconservative goal. Barack Obama is mostly a Neoliberal, and his goal is not too much different than Bush's was. He is just using different methods to achieve that goal. Obama, like Bush, is doubling down on the philosophy that we are America and **** everybody else. That philosophy will come back to bite him on the ass too, just like Iraq came back on Bush. In fact, let me go out on a limb and say something that is probably going to piss you off. Obama = Bush. You might not like that comparison, but it's the truth.
 
One thing I have learned during my years at DP is that anything bad that happens anywhere in the world can be rationalized as Obama's fault by some people. Sometimes I just want to bang my head on the keyboard, and weep for the de-evolution of our species.
 
Back to the OP for a moment.

First, I don't believe this accusation. I guess everyone has forgotten when the arab spring was starting in egypt and that us female reporter got attacked in Tahrir square and felt up by a bunch of guys. It's a problem there, just like a similar problem where a few guys pinched my wifes ass in Rome.

Second, the supposed "liberals" that are protesting morsi's stupid move to temporarily take power, and protest the constitution drafting process. Morsi said it was only until the constitutional referendum took place, but trusting him is probably a hard thing for some to do.

Morsi called for the constitutional committee to hurry up and they did. The draft of the new egyptian constitution looks to be a pretty darn good document to set Egypt up as a modern democracy.

Perhaps the fear mongers and doom sayers about the Muslim Brotherhood should look to see exactly how pragmatic they have become and how undemonic they actually are.

the only reason that the opposition parties are complaining is because they walked out of the drafting committee. A move that was pretty damn stupid, "we don't think you'll be fair so we won't participate in drafting it". Like not participating in the voting process and then protesting the outcome. Stupid and stupider.

Despite that the resulting document includes:

Egypt is an Islamic country and sharia forms the basis of its laws***
freedom of speech, religion, media, assembly, movement
gender equality in all laws
outlawing any political party that does not support gender equality
balance of powers - parliament, shura (senate), president, justice
term limits on all elected positions
presumption of innocence
habeus corpus
free healthcare
free education including post secondary (both genders)

and a bunch of other pretty decent stuff.

here is an english translation of the draft. Its a tad long

Egypt's draft constitution translated | Egypt Independent


*** for the paranoid, sharia has huge amounts of stuff that is simply not applicable in the 21st century. Just like christians and jews no longer think that death is the appropriate punishment for cursing one's parents or hitting them. the term "sharia forms the basis of the laws" means that Egypt will have Islamic law which will be a mixture of sharia and english common law. (habeus corpus being but one example).

this is a good start. The saudis/wahabiis are scared poopless about it and it appears that there are some of their paid "rabblerousers" in the crowd of "liberal" protesters. What is going on there is not all what it seems.
If morsi can hold things together until the draft is debated and a final version is presented for the referendum, then Egypt will have lain the foundation for a bright and stable future. They will once re-gain their pre-eminent place in the arab world.
 
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sawyerloggingon said:
Obama still remains silent on the Muslim Brotherhood and Egypt's new dictator he helped install, amazing!


"Egypt’s embattled Muslim Brotherhood regime is paying gangs of thugs to rape women and beat men who gather in Tahrir Square to protest the power grab of President Mohamed Morsi, say activists.
In a bitter replay of the Arab Spring protests that brought down President Hosni Mubarak nearly two years ago, protesters have flooded the Cairo square to denounce Morsi, who has stripped the judiciary of power and is rushing through an Islamist constitution. And while Mubarak is now in prison for using violence to quell protests targeting him, Morsi’s regime is now accused of doing the same.
“This is still happening now,” Magda Adly, director of the Nadeem Center for Human Rights, told The Times of London. “I believe thugs are being paid money to do this ... the Muslim Brotherhood have the same political approaches as Mubarak.”


Read more: Egypt's Muslim Brotherhood accused of paying gangs to rape women | Fox News


Another link if you hate FOX to much to look.

Rape gangs of Tahrir Square | The Times


Question now is, where is the obama media on this story?
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This story is a lie..........
 
TheDemSocialist said:
Actually Obama has not been silent on this issue...
Obama tells Morsi violence in Egypt 'unacceptable'
"The White House says President Barack Obama has called Egyptian President Mohammed Morsi to express "deep concern" about the deaths and injuries of protesters in Egypt.

A White House statement says the president told Morsi that he and other political leaders in Egypt must make clear to their supporters that violence is unacceptable.

The statement Thursday night said that Obama welcomed Morsi's call for a dialogue with opposition leaders in Egypt but stressed that such a dialogue should occur without preconditions. "
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One private phone call compared to public statement after public statement when obama wanted Mubarak out, see the difference?
 
DiAnna said:
One thing I have learned during my years at DP is that anything bad that happens anywhere in the world can be rationalized as Obama's fault by some people. Sometimes I just want to bang my head on the keyboard, and weep for the de-evolution of our species.
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You miss the point. Why is obama so silent about what is happening in Egypt now when he was so vocal before? Any ideas?
 
Jonsa said:
Back to the OP for a moment.

First, I don't believe this accusation. I guess everyone has forgotten when the arab spring was starting in egypt and that us female reporter got attacked in Tahrir square and felt up by a bunch of guys. It's a problem there, just like a similar problem where a few guys pinched my wifes ass in Rome.

Second, the supposed "liberals" that are protesting morsi's stupid move to temporarily take power, and protest the constitution drafting process. Morsi said it was only until the constitutional referendum took place, but trusting him is probably a hard thing for some to do.

Morsi called for the constitutional committee to hurry up and they did. The draft of the new egyptian constitution looks to be a pretty darn good document to set Egypt up as a modern democracy.

Perhaps the fear mongers and doom sayers about the Muslim Brotherhood should look to see exactly how pragmatic they have become and how undemonic they actually are.

the only reason that the opposition parties are complaining is because they walked out of the drafting committee. A move that was pretty damn stupid, "we don't think you'll be fair so we won't participate in drafting it". Like not participating in the voting process and then protesting the outcome. Stupid and stupider.

Despite that the resulting document includes:

Egypt is an Islamic country and sharia forms the basis of its laws***
freedom of speech, religion, media, assembly, movement
gender equality in all laws
outlawing any political party that does not support gender equality
balance of powers - parliament, shura (senate), president, justice
term limits on all elected positions
presumption of innocence
habeus corpus
free healthcare
free education including post secondary (both genders)

and a bunch of other pretty decent stuff.

here is an english translation of the draft. Its a tad long

Egypt's draft constitution translated | Egypt Independent


*** for the paranoid, sharia has huge amounts of stuff that is simply not applicable in the 21st century. Just like christians and jews no longer think that death is the appropriate punishment for cursing one's parents or hitting them. the term "sharia forms the basis of the laws" means that Egypt will have Islamic law which will be a mixture of sharia and english common law. (habeus corpus being but one example).

this is a good start. The saudis/wahabiis are scared poopless about it and it appears that there are some of their paid "rabblerousers" in the crowd of "liberal" protesters. What is going on there is not all what it seems.
If morsi can hold things together until the draft is debated and a final version is presented for the referendum, then Egypt will have lain the foundation for a bright and stable future. They will once re-gain their pre-eminent place in the arab world.
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The Saudis aren't scared poopless at all.

in 2009-2010 and again this year Saudi scholars and clerics have come to the conclusion that because literacy was so terrible people began to think that tribal customs were Sharia law... That has opened the door on redefining Khulwas and ikhtilat.. so reforms are moving along rapidly.

Its allows women to work with men, attend co-ed universities with their faces and hair uncovered.. they will have the vote next year..In Jeddah women wear pastel Abayas .. in Riyadh they decorate the dark ones with embroidery.. Women can now work as waitresses .. others are studying to be doctors, lawyers, engineers etc.

There are female film makers...

The Religious Police have been sharply reigned in and reduced in numbers .. and the new top man is a liberal who supports more freedom for women.

so things are changing at an increasing rate.
 
sawyerloggingon said:
And you know that how?
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From Egyptians who are there in Cairo.

The claims of rape.. are more like jostling or behaving like a masher... and the accusations against Morsi hiring rape gangs is idiotic.

Morsi has also said he will talk with them and they can protest, but he will not tolerate violence.

Many in the crowd are teens.. as young as 15.
 
Fisher said:
Morsiis doing nothing other than follow the Mubarak model. Different name--samemessed up culture. People seem to forget or never knew that there was somequasi-democracy in Egypt before the Arab Spring. We have change without a differencethere. Perhaps if the US had shown some real leadership......
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BH Obama andhis progressive horde did lead. Severalprogressive groups aided and abetted the Arab Spring - not that many Egyptiansand Libyans are actually Arabs - with money, networking advise, etc and BHObama threw Mo under the bus with the help of the Egyptian military. The first major speech BH Obama gave afterthe election was to the very college kids that organized the revolution inEgypt.

As far as hiring islamo dogs to rape women. It would be like hiring kids at Woodstock to smoke pot. Just look the other way and it will happen.
 
sharon said:
From Egyptians who are there in Cairo.

The claims of rape.. are more like jostling or behaving like a masher... and the accusations against Morsi hiring rape gangs is idiotic.

Morsi has also said he will talk with them and they can protest, but he will not tolerate violence.

Many in the crowd are teens.. as young as 15.
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In the courtroom they call that heresay. FAIL
 
Iron River said:


BH Obama andhis progressive horde did lead. Severalprogressive groups aided and abetted the Arab Spring - not that many Egyptiansand Libyans are actually Arabs - with money, networking advise, etc and BHObama threw Mo under the bus with the help of the Egyptian military. The first major speech BH Obama gave afterthe election was to the very college kids that organized the revolution inEgypt.

As far as hiring islamo dogs to rape women. It would belike hiring kids at Woodstock to smoke pot. Just look the other way and it will happen.
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The driving force behind the Arab Spring in Egypt was the economy.. and many in the crowd are teens as young as 15.

There are no "rape" gangs.. just some jostling and mashing.
 
danarhea said:
Ahh yes, just like the US did during Operation Ajax in 1953, when they overthrew the democratically elected leader of Iran and installed the Shah. The blowback from that is something we are witnessing today. And we wonder why they hate us? You can't meddle in the internal affairs of another nation and attempt to rule them by force without ending up with the kluster (insert f word here), that is Iran, and would also be Egypt, if we followed your advise. Whether you like or hate Ron Paul, he hit the nail dead on when he talked about it.
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No. Paul was using BS to defend his INSANE foreign policy, and this idiocy kept him from ever becoming a power player.
 
sharon said:
From Egyptians who are there in Cairo.

The claims of rape.. are more like jostling or behaving like a masher... and the accusations against Morsi hiring rape gangs is idiotic.

Morsi has also said he will talk with them and they can protest, but he will not tolerate violence.

Many in the crowd are teens.. as young as 15.
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You probably believe the Holocaust was a hoax too.
 
sawyerloggingon said:
You probably believe the Holocaust was a hoax too.
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And that Al-Bashir is innocent. And that the Saudis are just the greatest people ever. And that the Iranian regime does no wrong. And that Iraq was better under Saddam. And that Assad should be left alone.

Is there a pattern here?
 
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