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No Fiscal Deal Without Higher Tax Rates On Rich, Obama Says

j-mac said:
Ok, maybe I assumed prematurely, So you're saying that you don't think that raising taxes would hurt Repubs? Tell me why you think that?



Good, now all we need is to agree on how to do that....What is your suggestion?
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I have long advocated that tax rates on ALL Americans earning dollar one go up by five points across the board. Further, the special rates for both capital gains and estate taxes should be abolished and both simply treated as income according to the regular schedules. FICA should be paid on 100% of income by 100% of earners not simply the 93% who pay on 100% of income today.

As for spending I would cut it by at least $400 billion this year.
 
haymarket said:
What I said was clear and unmistakable as I have now reprinted it several times in response to a claim made by American right here in this thread:



Are we clear on this?
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DBAJ....But I'll let it go.

I have long advocated that tax rates on ALL Americans earning dollar one go up by five points across the board. Further, the special rates for both capital gains and estate taxes should be abolished and both simply treated as income according to the regular schedules. FICA should be paid on 100% of income by 100% of earners not simply the 93% who pay on 100% of income today.
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So you are advocating a wealth tax on top of income taxes? Good luck with that one....FICA, is interesting though, I have also questioned why there is a cap on earnings for that tax.

As for spending I would cut it by at least $400 billion this year.
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can you be specific?
 
TurtleDude said:
its interesting that the welfare socialists are not calling for spending cuts

they merely don't like the rich or more likely, their own failure to be rich despite thinking they are smarter and more worthy than the rich, and merely want to punish people who have the wealth these welfare socialists think they themselves should have

its governmental vandalism that motivates them-if they cannot have something they don't want others to have it.

this crap about deficit reduction is just that. you all don't want deficit reduction because you want more and more government spending to justify economic vandalism imposed on those more prosperous than you are
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What they want to do is tax the successful, those who went for the American Dream and achieved it.

They must know, they have been told often enough, that 'taxing the rich' will do nothing to solve the debt problem or any budgetary problems. It is a drop in that hole filled bucket.

It is a jealousy tax, a green-eyed tax, a tax on those who have achieved something in their lives against those who don't have a clue about how wealth is either created or managed.
 
j-mac said:
DBAJ....But I'll let it go.



So you are advocating a wealth tax on top of income taxes? Good luck with that one....FICA, is interesting though, I have also questioned why there is a cap on earnings for that tax.



can you be specific?
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Where did I mention a special wealth tax?

On cuts - mostly from the military budget. And of course cutting down on the debt will save in paying interest revenues as well from year to year in the future so there is a cut there as well.
 
haymarket said:
Where did I mention a special wealth tax?

On cuts - mostly from the military budget. And of course cutting down on the debt will save in paying interest revenues as well from year to year in the future so there is a cut there as well.
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So then what is different from going off the cliff then?
 
haymarket said:
None of that answers the question that you led with: how does raising tax rates to Clinton levels on the rich damage the republican party?
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The goal is to get some republicans to bolt on the issue of raising taxes at all.
It fractures the ability of republican leaders to keep their caucus together on issues and votes.

Its a party plank, the goal of this is not to get revenue, this proposal will net around 80billion/year. The odds that this will be mitigated by tax avoidance remain high. Even the President admitted this is not about revenue its about "fairness". If its about fairness, eliminating tax avoidance is a much more surefire way of accomplishing it.

There are a ton of ways to raise revenue that republicans are not just willing to go to but WANT to go to. By insisting on this one they are showing its about politics and not financial responsibility.
 
haymarket said:
Where did I mention a special wealth tax?

On cuts - mostly from the military budget. And of course cutting down on the debt will save in paying interest revenues as well from year to year in the future so there is a cut there as well.
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If you cut the military budget by 10% you have only cut the budget entire by 2% at best. Social spending makes up 66% of the budget. Eventually we will have to address that spending, it can only be kicked down the road for so long.
 
TurtleDude said:
YOu still don't get it. unless the middle class stops demanding more spending the deficit will always grow
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I have called for cutting spending as well. But, any spending requires a method of paying for it. Anyone seeking only one of these options is the person who doesn't get it.
 
Boo Radley said:
I have called for cutting spending as well. But, any spending requires a method of paying for it. Anyone seeking only one of these options is the person who doesn't get it.
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Great. so we are in agreement. Stop borrowing from China, and those entitlements that can not be paid for without borrowing to do it gets cut.
 
keymanjim said:
And when they send their money overseas to avoid that wholly unfair tax, what do your do?
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We still tax them. See USA taxes are based on CITIZENSHIP, not the location of them or the money.
 
j-mac said:
Hey, we can look at the bright side....When it takes a trunk load of money to buy a loaf of bread, I can pay off my house in about a week....;)
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That's probably the long term plan because there is no other way $16,000,000,000,000 (and counting) can ever be repaid. Meanwhile the president and his people are turning Black against White, Women against Men, and everyone against "the rich".
 
Grant said:
That's probably the long term plan because there is no other way $16,000,000,000,000 (and counting) can ever be repaid. Meanwhile the president and his people are turning Black against White, Women against Men, and everyone against "the rich".
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Oh yeah, by that time we'll be a diminished cesspool, but I think that is the plan of our anti colonialist n chief as well.
 
j-mac said:
Oh yeah, by that time we'll be a diminished cesspool, but I think that is the plan of our anti colonialist n chief as well.
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It's difficult to believe but the evidence keeps growing, doesn't it? How else to explain it?
 
Grant said:
It's difficult to believe but the evidence keeps growing, doesn't it? How else to explain it?
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I just don't know anymore....I mean, take a look in here at the level of posting. The contempt, the hatred, the total revision of what is said, sometimes within the same page of a thread, the obfuscation. The increase of more radicalized leftest poster, more progressives hiding their true leans. The defense of Obama even in the face of liberal media outlets saying the opposite. More and more people that I have known for a long time in here have turned more shrill, and short in their responses....

This can only be explained by one thing, the country as a whole is wedging further apart, and more caustic, and this imho, is being done deliberately by Obama, and progressives, to destroy the republican party, I think that is behind this manufactured fiscal cliff, and everything behind the motive of Obama, and progressives.
 
j-mac said:
I just don't know anymore....I mean, take a look in here at the level of posting. The contempt, the hatred, the total revision of what is said, sometimes within the same page of a thread, the obfuscation. The increase of more radicalized leftest poster, more progressives hiding their true leans. The defense of Obama even in the face of liberal media outlets saying the opposite. More and more people that I have known for a long time in here have turned more shrill, and short in their responses....

This can only be explained by one thing, the country as a whole is wedging further apart, and more caustic, and this imho, is being done deliberately by Obama, and progressives, to destroy the republican party, I think that is behind this manufactured fiscal cliff, and everything behind the motive of Obama, and progressives.
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Any chance you're just reading them wrong? There does seem to be issues with comprehension. That was pointed out rather clearly. If you keep getting what is said wrong, should we blame what is said, or you? I mean this as a fair question.
 
Boo Radley said:
Any chance you're just reading them wrong? There does seem to be issues with comprehension. That was pointed out rather clearly. If you keep getting what is said wrong, should we blame what is said, or you? I mean this as a fair question.
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So being insulting, is fair to you eh....Go away Joe.
 
TurtleDude said:
this crap about deficit reduction is just that. you all don't want deficit reduction because you want more and more government spending to justify economic vandalism imposed on those more prosperous than you are
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Neither side thinks the debt is a problem, if they did, both sides would not have have unanimously agreed last week to authorizing $650 billion dollars in military spending for next year. The vote was 98 - 0!
 
Catawba said:
Neither side thinks the debt is a problem, if they did, both sides would not have have unanimously agreed last week to authorizing $650 billion dollars in military spending for next year. The vote was 98 - 0!
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do you know what have been the most wasteful wars in USA history

the war on poverty

followed closely by the war on drugs

the former creates millions of dependents who are self regenerating

the second has created millions of people with felony records and often become real criminals or wards of the state
 
minnie616 said:
But letting the Bush tax cuts expire is NOT raising taxes.
It is just allowing a temporary tax cut to expire.

When the Bush tax cuts were first passed they were temporay cuts and had a "sunset" attached to them.

.

read more:

How Will The Expiring Bush Tax Cuts Affect You? - Forbes.com
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How long did we have these tax cuts? Long enough for them to effect the economy in such a way that remove them would cause a serious change
 
TurtleDude said:
do you know what have been the most wasteful wars in USA history

the war on poverty

followed closely by the war on drugs

the former creates millions of dependents who are self regenerating

the second has created millions of people with felony records and often become real criminals or wards of the state
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What about giving millionaires and billionaires tax breaks that didnt need them? Does this count as welfare or free handouts that produced nothing.
 
American said:
How long did we have these tax cuts? Long enough for them to effect the economy in such a way that remove them would cause a serious change
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yeah the bush tax rates have lasted longer than any tax rates since the start of the RWR administration
 
TaraAnne said:
What about giving millionaires and billionaires tax breaks that didnt need them? Does this count as welfare or free handouts that produced nothing.
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who says they don't NEED them

what a stupid comment. The GOVERNMENT DOES NOT NEED MORE MONEY-it wastes too much as it is. Your posts demonstrate a rather significant lack of understanding of what is a handout

until the top one percent pay less than ONE percent of the Federal tax bill they are not getting handouts
 
TurtleDude said:
who says they don't NEED them

what a stupid comment. The GOVERNMENT DOES NOT NEED MORE MONEY-it wastes too much as it is. Your posts demonstrate a rather significant lack of understanding of what is a handout

until the top one percent pay less than ONE percent of the Federal tax bill they are not getting handouts
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So your are says Buffett doesnt know what he is talking about either because he pretty much said the exact same thing. Tax breaks are hand outs. Medicare, Medicade, SS, and other social services are not hand outs they are paid into over time so who really doesnt understand what a handout is I thing that would be you.
 
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