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No Fiscal Deal Without Higher Tax Rates On Rich, Obama Says

kamikaze483 said:
What put Obama over the edge in this election was the laziness and stupidity of his own base. That the majority of people would rather have things provided to them for free- through the work of other people- that to earn it for themselves.

Take out all welfare recipients from the election- remove their right to vote- and we would have had an entirely different result.
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Conjecture and a healthy dose of "Sour Apples" to boot. Nothing really worth taking heed of here.

Yeah you're thinking of a Plutocracy:Let me google that for you

Quite different from what the founders envisioned, in addition to most sane folks in current times.
 
j-mac said:
Here is what I think at this time Republicans should do...

3. WALK AWAY from the table and vote "present" just like Obama has for most of his political career, and hang this hike, and the resulting recession around his, and the democrat's necks.
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Why would your ideal scenario entail a recession cheered on due to political bias? A tad petulant no?
 
a351 said:
Hardly. One has to examine just who this new revenue will stem from and the immediate effect it will have on said individual's financial standing. An effective tax hike on an individual making $35,000 will have a much greater impact than that same hike on someone earning tenfold that amount. As will lets say, closing the Mortgage Interest Deduction versus Charitable deductions. Not all taxes and deductions are created equal, nor are consumers and their respective psyches.
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If the deductions being proposed are tailored to effect the same group of tax payers, and not touch those in the lower income levels, then there is NO difference. The only reason you don't like it is because demo's are in this childish Marxist mindset where they have created a boogyman of "rich people" to attack...Man you libs are gullible.
 
kamikaze483 said:
Indeed the people chose. What put Obama over the edge in this election was the laziness and stupidity of his own base. It should not be with boastfulness that you make this claim. It should be with solemn sadness. That the majority of people would rather have things provided to them for free- through the work of other people- that to earn it for themselves.

Take out all welfare recipients from the election- remove their right to vote- and we would have had an entirely different result. Of course the welfare people vote to continue the freebies.
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No it was the contempt you and other conservatives expressed for the working class and what they have suffered, just as you did above, that lost the election for you.

So, all I can say is keep it up and we will take the House too in 2014! :cool:
 
Catawba said:
No it was the contempt you and other conservatives expressed for the working class and what they have suffered, just as you did above, that lost the election for you.

So, all I can say is keep it up and we will take the House too in 2014! :cool:
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As a "working man" the only contempt I see are those that think I need their handout.
 
j-mac said:
If the deductions being proposed are tailored to effect the same group of tax payers, and not touch those in the lower income levels, then there is NO difference.

The only reason you don't like it is because demo's are in this childish Marxist mindset where they have created a boogyman of "rich people" to attack

Man you libs are gullible.
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Well, the deductions you spoke of brought forth by Mcconnell will inevitably effect those outside of the top income brackets, due to Mathematical constraints. I was simply refuting the notion that all tax hikes and deductions are created equal as you implied previously.

Tax hikes of this magnitude are of a Marxist mindset? Perhaps you meant Ike? Reagan? JFK? Carter? Historical accounts of taxation in the 20th century are readily available to those who are curious.
 
a351 said:
Why would your ideal scenario entail a recession cheered on due to political bias? A tad petulant no?
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Too damned bad....We are gonna hang this around your neck, and in future classrooms it'll be taught that this country went through a near Marxist take over brought on by arrogant little liars that wanted what someone else earned.
 
Catawba said:
No it was the contempt you and other conservatives expressed for the working class and what they have suffered, just as you did above, that lost the election for you.

So, all I can say is keep it up and we will take the House too in 2014! :cool:
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I think not. I and most people I know have the utmost respect for the working class.
 
a351 said:
Well, the deductions you spoke of brought forth by Mcconnell will inevitably effect those outside of the top income brackets, due to Mathematical constraints. I was simply refuting the notion that all tax hikes and deductions are created equal as you implied previously.

Tax hikes of this magnitude are of a Marxist mindset? Perhaps you meant Ike? Reagan? JFK? Carter? Historical accounts of taxation in the 20th century are readily available to those who are curious.
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Taxes are goin' up on everyone, either in the open, or hidden in crappy legislation like Health Care. The progressive trash won't be happy until everyone is equally poor.
 
j-mac said:
Too damned bad....We are gonna hang this around your neck, and in future classrooms it'll be taught that this country went through a near Marxist take over brought on by arrogant little liars that wanted what someone else earned.
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LOL! " A near Marxist takeover." Apparently the future will also be overwhelmingly occupied by crackpot revisionist historians as well. But on the real, wishing a recession and hardship upon your fellow Americans due to political sour apples doesn't exactly scream Apple pie and Baseball does it?
 
Catawba said:
Since 60% of Americans say let the tax cuts expire for the rich, I trust they will make the right decision, or, rightfully face the consequences in 2014. :cool:
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Republicans and Democrats have sharply different reactions to the government's taking such an active role in equalizing economic outcomes. Seven in 10 Democrats believe the government should levy taxes on the rich to redistribute wealth, while an equal proportion of Republicans believe it should not. The slight majority of independents oppose this policy.

Bottom Line

While a solid majority of Americans, 57%, believe money and wealth in the U.S. should be more evenly distributed among the people, fewer than half favor using the federal tax code to do so. The fault line in these views is distinctly partisan, with most Democrats championing redistribution and most Republicans opposing it......snip~

Americans Divided on Taxing the Rich to Redistribute Wealth

Seems the majority of Americans don't favor using the Federal tax Code to do so......seems that's where some of the confusion comes in. Or that Progressives refuse to acknowledge that fact while saying 60% percent say go ahead and tax the Rich. :rolleyes:
 
j-mac said:
Taxes are goin' up on everyone

hidden in crappy legislation like Health Care
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That's a prediction, not an affirmative statement.

Yeah.. no, the ACA does indeed include a handful of taxes, but not everyone will be affected. Concentrated increases on non essentials take the prominent role.
 
a351 said:
LOL! " A near Marxist takeover." Apparently the future will also be overwhelmingly occupied by crackpot revisionist historians as well. But on the real, wishing a recession and hardship upon your fellow Americans due to political sour apples doesn't exactly scream Apple pie and Baseball does it?
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No, revisionists are what we have now in progressives that are constantly using imaginative language to twist and spin....Either way, the concept is simple, I think we learned it in the 8th grade. When the treasury prints money, they have to have a mechanism to claw that excess back in, Obama, and progressive liberals in Congress have ensured that the pain will be felt by everyone....My choice is only in whether we take responsibility for our foul up in putting this goofball in office, or pass it on to our children....I say we be adults and take the pain we created.
 
a351 said:
That's a prediction, not an affirmative statement.
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I got a pretty good track record so far....

Yeah.. no, the ACA does indeed include a handful of taxes, but not everyone will be affected. Concentrated increases on non essentials take the prominent role.
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It has been laid out recently more than once how this will effect everyone...So I won't reprint it....Just because you stand there with your fingers in your ears screaming 'nuh, uh" doesn't mean that it won't take place...Read up on it young man.
 
j-mac said:
No, revisionists are what we have now in progressives that are constantly using imaginative language to twist and spin

When the treasury prints money

they have to have a mechanism to claw that excess back in,

My choice is only in whether we take responsibility for our foul up in putting this goofball in office, or pass it on to our children....I say we be adults and take the pain we created.
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Imaginative huh? Sort of reminds me of this guy who was braying about future heroics that included snuffing out a discreet plot to overthrow the entire country, earning the admiration of school children cross' the land.

Bureau of Engraving and Printing.

What excess? Do we have an excess currently? Or could tax hikes simply serve to alter how said money travels about rather than eliminate it completely?

Wait so "Taking responsibility" would entail causing a Recession as you gleefully suggested prior? In what dimension would these two concepts mesh in the slightest?
 
j-mac said:
I got a pretty good track record so far....



It has been laid out recently more than once how this will effect everyone...

Read up on it young man.
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Take heed Miss Cleo! Go ahead and add this one to the future scrap pile:
j-mac said:
in future classrooms it'll be taught that this country went through a near Marxist take over
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In regards to taxation? Nah, it hasn't and with good reason, most wouldn't want to put their name behind such a Pants on Fire style claim.

I've read into the effects of taxation within the ACA and the official figures don't mesh with your arm chair analysis. Not surprising really.
 
kamikaze483 said:
I think not. I and most people I know have the utmost respect for the working class.
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Yeah, this sounds like a lot of respect you are showing -

kamikaze483 said:
What put Obama over the edge in this election was the laziness and stupidity of his own base.
Click to expand...

That the majority of people would rather have things provided to them for free- through the work of other people- that to earn it for themselves.
Click to expand...

Take out all welfare recipients from the election- remove their right to vote- and we would have had an entirely different result. Of course the welfare people vote to continue the freebies.
Click to expand...

....................
 
Catawba said:
Yeah, this sounds like a lot of respect you are showing -







....................
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I stand behind all that. That has nothing to do with the "working" class. I respect people who work and who choose to live by the fruit of their own labor. When you primarily depend on government handouts, you are not "working class." The working class works.
 
MMC said:
Republicans and Democrats have sharply different reactions to the government's taking such an active role in equalizing economic outcomes. Seven in 10 Democrats believe the government should levy taxes on the rich to redistribute wealth, while an equal proportion of Republicans believe it should not. The slight majority of independents oppose this policy.

Bottom Line

While a solid majority of Americans, 57%, believe money and wealth in the U.S. should be more evenly distributed among the people, fewer than half favor using the federal tax code to do so. The fault line in these views is distinctly partisan, with most Democrats championing redistribution and most Republicans opposing it......snip~

Americans Divided on Taxing the Rich to Redistribute Wealth

Seems the majority of Americans don't favor using the Federal tax Code to do so......seems that's where some of the confusion comes in. Or that Progressives refuse to acknowledge that fact while saying 60% percent say go ahead and tax the Rich. :rolleyes:
Click to expand...


Ah.......the Karl Rove approach to reading public polls. May it work out for you as well as it did your mentor. Was real sorry to hear Fox News was letting Karl go. :cool:
 
kamikaze483 said:
I stand behind all that. That has nothing to do with the "working" class. I respect people who work and who choose to live by the fruit of their own labor. When you primarily depend on government handouts, you are not "working class." The working class works.
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You have no clue that most people on welfare work do you? That is how out of touch and irrelevant your opinion is.
 
Catawba said:
Ah.......the Karl Rove approach to reading public polls. May it work out for you as well as it did your mentor. Was real sorry to hear Fox News was letting Karl go. :cool:
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Gallup......huh? Did you want to tie them to Fox now? then there is those stats that come after an election, eh? Course we can go back to those 76 Cities.....again? Kinda hard to argue with ya own and Brookings now isn't it?
rolleyes.png
 
kamikaze483 said:
No. I do not have that clue.

http://www.urban.org/UploadedPDF/900653.pdf

If these were the numbers in 2002- at a time when the economy was thriving... what would you expect they would be now?
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Let's look at some more up to date numbers:

"1) In 2011, about 49 percent of the population lived in a household where at least one member received a direct benefit from the federal government. A big chunk of these households are retirees. And about 27 percent households benefited from a means-tested poverty program. A quick breakdown:

–Last year, about 29 percent of households received Medicare benefits and 31.6 percent received Social Security. (Obviously there’s a lot of overlap between those two, since those programs mainly benefit retirees.)

–Meanwhile, about 32 million households, or 27.1 percent, benefited from at least one means-tested poverty program. The biggest benefits here were Medicaid (19.5 percent), food stamps (12.7 percent) and subsidized lunches (11.2 percent). Again, there’s some overlap.

–Smaller benefits include public housing (5 percent of households), unemployment (4 percent), and veterans’ compensation (2.6 percent). Only 7 percent of households receive some sort of direct cash assistance, such as the TANF welfare program.

2) The number of households receiving government benefits has steadily risen over time, particularly after the financial crisis. The recent increase can partly be chalked up the recession, which threw a lot of people out of work, and partly due to President Obama’s stimulus programs, which expanded (among other things) unemployment insurance and Medicaid:"

Read more here:

Who receives government benefits, in six charts
 
Catawba said:
Let's look at some more up to date numbers:

"1) In 2011, about 49 percent of the population lived in a household where at least one member received a direct benefit from the federal government. A big chunk of these households are retirees. And about 27 percent households benefited from a means-tested poverty program. A quick breakdown:

–Last year, about 29 percent of households received Medicare benefits and 31.6 percent received Social Security. (Obviously there’s a lot of overlap between those two, since those programs mainly benefit retirees.)

–Meanwhile, about 32 million households, or 27.1 percent, benefited from at least one means-tested poverty program. The biggest benefits here were Medicaid (19.5 percent), food stamps (12.7 percent) and subsidized lunches (11.2 percent). Again, there’s some overlap.

–Smaller benefits include public housing (5 percent of households), unemployment (4 percent), and veterans’ compensation (2.6 percent). Only 7 percent of households receive some sort of direct cash assistance, such as the TANF welfare program.

2) The number of households receiving government benefits has steadily risen over time, particularly after the financial crisis. The recent increase can partly be chalked up the recession, which threw a lot of people out of work, and partly due to President Obama’s stimulus programs, which expanded (among other things) unemployment insurance and Medicaid:"

Read more here:

Who receives government benefits, in six charts
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Lots of reading here. However none of it on topic. The debate we were having was this:

Of the people who receive welfare benefits, how many of them work? You stated that the majority of them work. I showed a graph from a liberal organization which was done based on 2002 numbers.

Though I could not find a more up to date chart, this fact remains: The welfare population DOES NOT fare better in the employment numbers than the overall population of the country. I would be willing to make this "guess":

Less welfare people work now then they did in 2002.

Your claim that the majority of welfare recipients work is invalid and false.
 
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