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[R.I.P.] Kansas City Chiefs Player, UMaine Graduate Kills Girlfriend, Self

Neomalthusian said:
I'm not claiming he was a great guy. Just saying it is not in fact "obvious" to any of us that "selfish, greedy" describes or explains why he did this. It's heinous, but we have no idea the real nature of this guy's ****ed-up-ness.
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I don't care about the nature of his ****ed-up ness. I care about the fact that he cold-bloodedly murdered an innocent person. Screw him.
 
Manc Skipper said:
My comment is entirely informed on the topic. What is your expertise?
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I have close family members involved in being treated for depression, and in the past, or in the beginning if you will was intimately involved with doc's at John's Hopkins in Baltimore with their treatment in understanding what was going on...I'll just leave it there.

Someone in severe depression is physically and mentally slowed to the point that they lack the volition if not the motivation to kill themselves. People in severe depression, treated with electroplexy are notoriously at most at risk of suicide around the third or fourth treatment, when their mood is still low, but they are more alert, aware and oriented, so that they are capable of acting on their thoughts.
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That may be totally true in terms of depression alone, however with illness such as bi-polar often includes times of mania, as well as times of deep depression. At the times of mania is often accompanied with a lack of sleep for up to days if not a week or more. This can bring on near psychotic behavior. I am not saying that this is 100% the case with this person, but to just jump to extreme, derogatory illustration of this mans motive without knowing is IMHO, a deplorable way of approaching it.

Those who behave in a selfish way don't always believe they are doing so. Given the circumstances of this case, having murdered someone, the realisation that his career, if not his life, was essentially finished, moved him to kill himself to avoid those consequences of what he'd done.
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That could very well be the case as well. IDK....but all I am saying I guess is we should find out before we just start with the conclusion.

Isn't amazing though, that some could say that I am taking the liberal side of things in this thread, and still being attacked by other libs taking what could be considered the conservative side of the argument....I guess it is just a contrarian approach....But still funny to see. :peace:
 
tererun said:
You mean the guy who played a game for a living and made huge amounts of money for doing so felt sad? Oh give me a break. I have the same to say about this that i did about kurt nobrain wacking himself. If you cannot find happiness with millions of dollars and a job that involves playing then you are are doing it wrong. If you want to quit the game with everything going for you then do it and stop taking out other people. Just don't tell me i have to care or give sympathy to the man and the screw ups who raised such a defective person.
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At least Cobain didn't decide to murder some innocent person before killing himself. You know what - if you're that ****ed-up then go ahead - kill yourself. Just don't take somebody else with you as some sort of statement.

I find this sympathy for the perpetrator of his horror amazing. I guess that's why I'm only 'slightly liberal' as opposed to the full fledged kind.
 
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Wiggen said:
I don't care about the nature of his ****ed-up ness. I care about the fact that he cold-bloodedly murdered an innocent person. Screw him.
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Am not defending the player but am not so ready to fully condemn him to eternal hell. There is something about this case that just indicates we don't know all the facts.

Don't know if he had mental depression or chemical imbalance. Do know that he didn't go kill another boyfriend, family member, or just someone walking down the street.

Also did not do an OJ Simpson and try to deny it. He accepted his wrongdoing and gave his thanks to his coaches and then ended his life.

We will probably never know what went on between them. Women have killed their lovers and were found innocent due to being in abusive relationship. Obviously she could not physically abuse a football player but there is also mental abuse where you can push somebody over the line. Or as many suggest he may have just been a monster but I don't think so. The worst of this is that he has made his child an orphan and the child will never have the priviledge of knowing his parents.

Some here have even blamed his parents which I find completely off the chart.
 
I hope he's rotting in the worst sewer in all of Hell

He made his choices. May his name be spat upon for eternity.
 
j-mac said:
I have close family members involved in being treated for depression, and in the past, or in the beginning if you will was intimately involved with doc's at John's Hopkins in Baltimore with their treatment in understanding what was going on...I'll just leave it there.
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I have 35 years RN experience within Psychiatry...
That may be totally true in terms of depression alone, however with illness such as bi-polar often includes times of mania, as well as times of deep depression. At the times of mania is often accompanied with a lack of sleep for up to days if not a week or more. This can bring on near psychotic behavior. I am not saying that this is 100% the case with this person, but to just jump to extreme, derogatory illustration of this mans motive without knowing is IMHO, a deplorable way of approaching it.
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You first excused his murderous behaviour with speculation on severe depression, now you sidestep to bipolar once that has been confounded. Suicide during mania is rare due to a tendency to euphoria. (or feeling of extreme wellbeing) Your wild swings in attempting to justify your initial sympathy toward a murderer are all too obvious.

That could very well be the case as well. IDK....but all I am saying I guess is we should find out before we just start with the conclusion.
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Then don't make assumptions that he's mad and not just bad. My comment on selfisheness is not only observed from personal and professional experience, it is a widely held belief. Try google.
Isn't amazing though, that some could say that I am taking the liberal side of things in this thread, and still being attacked by other libs taking what could be considered the conservative side of the argument....I guess it is just a contrarian approach....But still funny to see. :peace:
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There's nothing funny about it. Neither is it a polarised political position.
 
Manc Skipper said:
I have 35 years RN experience within Psychiatry...

Suicide during mania is rare due to a tendency to euphoria. (or feeling of extreme wellbeing) Your wild swings in attempting to justify your initial sympathy toward a murderer are all too obvious.
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Actually suicide is very high in the depression or mixed mania period. There are two phases to bipolar.
 
Watching this on the news, I was instantly furious when they said "no word yet on whether the team plans to commemorate him." How in the heck are you going to consider for even an instant commemorating a POS murderer? I hope he gets a one-way ticket to hell, even just for the cowardly suicide. I hate how society considers looking past the crap athletes and celebrities did while alive and only see the positive as soon as they're dead. I don't believe in the stupid free pass for drugs or other wrongful acts just for obtaining some fame.
 
j-mac said:
You really have zero understanding of mental illness do you, and to be so brash, and abrasive in attacking not only the victims of this tragedy, but the victim's parents as well? That's just deplorable....Do me a favor, and don't respond to my postings anymore, you have nothing to offer but vitriol, and hatred. Go away.
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Why are you talking mental illness? he just shot his girlfriend. He is famous and there is little chance for him to hide. He didn't kill himself because he was mentally unstable, he killed himself to avoid going to jail and living the life he screwed up. No, I don't have sympathy for him. I have sympathy for a lot of people, but not this one. Life was pretty good for this guy. He makes millions of dollars, plays a game, has a girlfriend who was stupid enough to love him, and pretty much could go and do anything he wanted. Football gets you down? Finish the season, collect your money, and go find something you enjoy. It is not like this guy was poor and stuck where he was. he could have gone anywhere from where he was. Instead it was all just so hard for him that he had to shoot his girlfriend. No, he did not shoot himself first, he decided to shoot his girlfriend. So really this probably boils down to some stupid domestic thing and he pissed his life away because he couldn't stand the pain of his girlfriend doing whatever it is she did. I am not amused when whiny little emos spend all their time lamenting over some lost love, and i am certainly not going to be impressed when some jock with everything does it. You play football and make lots of money, i am sure there is more than one woman out there to polish your knob for you. You want me to have sympathy show me someone who has no opportunities and decides they cannot take it. Don't bring up some guy who shot his bitch for some stupid reason then figured out jail sucked and his life was ruined and offed himself. No, there is a special place in hell for this bastard.
 
Manc Skipper said:
I have 35 years RN experience within Psychiatry...
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Ok, am I supposed to bow now, or what?

You first excused his murderous behaviour with speculation on severe depression, now you sidestep to bipolar once that has been confounded. Suicide during mania is rare due to a tendency to euphoria. (or feeling of extreme wellbeing) Your wild swings in attempting to justify your initial sympathy toward a murderer are all too obvious.
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I "excused" nothing. I merely stated that there was something about this story that leaped off the page and screamed mental illness.

In a prospective study, 186 unipolar depressives and 220 cases of bipolar disorder meeting DSM-III criteria for major depression or mania were followed up. Subjects were classified according to polarity and the presence or absence of schizophrenic symptoms, into four diagnostic subgroups: unipolar depression, bipolar disorder, unipolar schizoaffective disorder and bipolar schizoaffective disorder. At the last follow-up in 1985, 53% of the patients had deceased. Eleven percent of the sample (17% of all deaths) had committed suicide. The risk of suicide was associated with clinical severity and onset prior to the age of 60. However, there was no difference in suicide rates according to sex or diagnostic subgroup. Late onset of affective illness was associated with chronicity, which occurred in 10 to 19% of cases. Recovery was more frequent among unipolar than among bipolar patients. The 5-year remission rates (i.e. 26% in unipolars, 16% in bipolars) were independent of the number of episodes.

Outcome of a clinical cohort of unipolar, bipolar and schizoaffective patients. Results of a... - Abstract - Europe PubMed Central
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Suicide, which is both a stereotypic yet highly individualized act, is a common endpoint for many patients with severe psychiatric illness. The mood disorders (depression and bipolar manic-depression) are by far the most common psychiatric conditions associated with suicide. At least 25% to 50% of patients with bipolar disorder also attempt suicide at least once.

Suicide and bipolar disorder. [J Clin Psychiatry. 2000] - PubMed - NCBI
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Obviously articles written show that suicide rates for this disorder are prevalent. Anywhere from 17% in one European study, to as much as 50% in an American study. Your conclusions above are misleading.

Then don't make assumptions that he's mad and not just bad. My comment on selfisheness is not only observed from personal and professional experience, it is a widely held belief. Try google.
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35 years eh? Well, maybe that much time in the field has jaded you, or maybe you are just angry, IDK. But, I can only say that studies back up my nod toward not prejudging the event.

There's nothing funny about it. Neither is it a polarised political position.
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I think the role reversal is funny comparatively speaking in the argument on this, not the act that happened for Christs sake....Take a chill pill.
 
tererun said:
Why are you talking mental illness? he just shot his girlfriend. He is famous and there is little chance for him to hide. He didn't kill himself because he was mentally unstable, he killed himself to avoid going to jail and living the life he screwed up. No, I don't have sympathy for him. I have sympathy for a lot of people, but not this one. Life was pretty good for this guy. He makes millions of dollars, plays a game, has a girlfriend who was stupid enough to love him, and pretty much could go and do anything he wanted. Football gets you down? Finish the season, collect your money, and go find something you enjoy. It is not like this guy was poor and stuck where he was. he could have gone anywhere from where he was. Instead it was all just so hard for him that he had to shoot his girlfriend. No, he did not shoot himself first, he decided to shoot his girlfriend. So really this probably boils down to some stupid domestic thing and he pissed his life away because he couldn't stand the pain of his girlfriend doing whatever it is she did. I am not amused when whiny little emos spend all their time lamenting over some lost love, and i am certainly not going to be impressed when some jock with everything does it. You play football and make lots of money, i am sure there is more than one woman out there to polish your knob for you. You want me to have sympathy show me someone who has no opportunities and decides they cannot take it. Don't bring up some guy who shot his bitch for some stupid reason then figured out jail sucked and his life was ruined and offed himself. No, there is a special place in hell for this bastard.
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Well, you have your opinion set....Noted.
 
Internet SOP:

Keyboard commandos, devoid of medical professional credentials, pass harsh judgement regarding a situation without having enough details.

No news at 11.
 
SMTA said:
Internet SOP:

Keyboard commandos, devoid of medical professional credentials, pass harsh judgement regarding a situation without having enough details.

No news at 11.
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hey now, the proper term is armchair psychologists.
 
SMTA said:
Internet SOP:

Keyboard commandos, devoid of medical professional credentials, pass harsh judgement regarding a situation without having enough details.

No news at 11.
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well, there is one detail we all possess. He murdered an innocent woman.
 
j-mac said:
So? The availability of gun ownership in our society has nothing to do with the result in that, if it weren't a gun it may have been a knife, or a bat, or a tire iron....Should we ban bats?
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Not at all. I'm just a bit disturbed about some of the comments people are making now about how this death was the result of "gun violence," as though the gun pulled its own trigger.

j-mac said:
So, a big "eh, so what?" huh? We should just mark it off as a happenstance of life, and not even address this country's dismal record of attention to mental health?
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No, I'm not saying that either. I'm saying that in the grand scheme of things this will be a blip and there will be football next year, ten years from now--even a hundred years from now.
 
Update to the story from the NYPost....

It didn’t help that he was drinking every day and taking painkillers while dealing with the effects of debilitating head injuries, the friend said.

Chiefs chairman Clark Hunt said today that Belcher was "a player who had not had a long concussion history.’’

Belcher, 25, and Perkins, 22, had argued for the last time when she returned home late from a concert Saturday morning. But the Belcher friend said the concert was only a “tipping point.”

“This was the result of a long-term conflict,” the pal said. “She made it clear that she was leaving and would contact a lawyer’’ to fight for custody and child support.

Chiefs linebacker Belcher struggled with head injuries, alcohol and painkillers before he snapped and killed girlfriend: report - NYPOST.com
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Ok, so the mental health issue is settled, turns out he was just a drinker, pill popper, and out of control 25 yr old, that snapped and murdered his girl friend.

Another domestic violence story. Well, at least then he saved us the money of prosecuting, and jailing him for life.
 
Ahlevah said:
Not at all. I'm just a bit disturbed about some of the comments people are making now about how this death was the result of "gun violence," as though the gun pulled its own trigger.



No, I'm not saying that either. I'm saying that in the grand scheme of things this will be a blip and there will be football next year, ten years from now--even a hundred years from now.
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You're right...Turns out it was just a run of the mill domestic violence issue. Sorry I jumped to conclusions with you.
 
j-mac said:
Ok, so the mental health issue is settled, turns out he was just a drinker, pill popper, and out of control 25 yr old, that snapped and murdered his girl friend.
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Notice we never hear anything about "pill violence." Even the "Twinkie Defense" is out the window now. It's always the gun's fault.
 
tererun said:
Just don't tell me i have to care or give sympathy to the man and the screw ups who raised such a defective person.
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:shock: Seems a bit screwed up to me to blame the parents for the acts of their child, especially without knowing all of the facts.
 
j-mac said:
Update to the story from the NYPost....



Ok, so the mental health issue is settled, turns out he was just a drinker, pill popper, and out of control 25 yr old, that snapped and murdered his girl friend.

Another domestic violence story. Well, at least then he saved us the money of prosecuting, and jailing him for life.
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Then that is what it was. I just wasn't prepared to jump on the condemnation wagon so quickly.

Just amazing that one who reaches the NFL which was probably a dream of his from childhood and once he makes it he throws everything away.

My heart goes out to the two families and especially the child who lost both parents.
 
Ahlevah said:
:shock: Seems a bit screwed up to me to blame the parents for the acts of their child, especially without knowing all of the facts.
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Oh yeah, we should not place any blame on the people who had responsibility for raising him for most of his life, and their lessons to him for any of his actions. No responsibility at all seems to be the modern parental motto. I am not trying to place full blame on them, but when your drug addicted pro-football thuggin son goes out and pop-s his girlfriend over some domestic dispute and then blows his braine out because he knows what he did was wrong and punishment is something this pansy couldn't deal with, perhaps somewhere back there was something that his parents could have done to avoid this. Some lesson was missed or not taught.
 
Wiggen said:
well, there is one detail we all possess. He murdered an innocent woman.
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Many soldier, police officers and average citizens have killed innocent people in error or due to psychiatric issues. It doesn't make them monsters or animals.
 
tererun said:
Oh yeah, we should not place any blame on the people who had responsibility for raising him for most of his life, and their lessons to him for any of his actions. No responsibility at all seems to be the modern parental motto. I am not trying to place full blame on them, but when your drug addicted pro-football thuggin son goes out and pop-s his girlfriend over some domestic dispute and then blows his braine out because he knows what he did was wrong and punishment is something this pansy couldn't deal with, perhaps somewhere back there was something that his parents could have done to avoid this. Some lesson was missed or not taught.
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Do you have kids yet? I'm guessing you don't or that if you do, they're wee ones. Why? Because if you did, I think you'd understand that parents can only do so much to encourage a child in the direction he or she should go. My kids, both now 20-somethings, had minor scrapes with the law when they were teens, and I absolutely disavowed any responsibility then or now for their choices. I didn't teach or model what they did.

I don't understand either why some who choose suicide decide to take out their loved ones first, but there are many reasons ranging from fear that they won't be able to go on alone to punishing others.

I mean, you don't even know why this young man killed himself after murdering his girlfriend. You're assuming that he did it because he was too cowardly to face the legal music. You don't know any of this.

And none of us do and maybe never will. Here are some facts, though. His mother had moved in to help take care of the baby. Sounds generous to me. She's also the one who called the cops after Perkins (the girlfriend/mother of Zoey) was shot. Sounds responsible to me.

Neighbors reported Belcher peeling out in his Bentley. Imagine being 25 and driving a car like that...might skew your perceptions and inflate your ego a bit. The couple had been fighting a lot, and Belcher was furious that Perkins had gone out to a concert and not returned home until after 1 in the morning. I've read multiple accounts of her threatening to leave him, and this is a classic domestic-violence scenario.

Anyway, a 3-month old baby has lost both her parents, an innocent woman is dead, and a 25-year old who clearly didn't have the maturity to handle the "slings and arrows" of ordinary life and its frustrations found a permanent solution to a temporary problem.

So maybe Belcher was a spoiled, immature brat. But you have just a whole lotta nerve sitting in judgment of this guy who was still just a kid and may have had substance-abuse/party problems. It's a tragedy all-around, but condemning the parents doesn't exactly make you look reasonable either.
 
On another note...does anyone else seem to think this is happening waay to much lately in pro sports...suicides I mean...what the hell is going on...its not like these people are poor they are making major bucks...im not getting it...ok this was a crime of passion but still theres some mental breakdown going on here
 
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