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‘Fiscal Cliff’ Could Put Millions of Taxpayers Into ‘AMT Shock’ [W:66]

j-mac said:
Could you explain the following parts for me?
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Would it help?

j-mac said:
"Promoting the availability of guaranteed lifetime income products, which transform at least a
portion of retirees’ savings into guaranteed future income, reducing the risks that retirees will
outlive their savings or that their living standards will be eroded by investment losses or inflation."
Hmmmm...Sounds like a take over to me....
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Promoting availability of financial products sounds the same as stealing someone's 401k to you.
That's...well...not sure what to say. If the actual words themselves don't convince you, I doubt that even more words would have much impact.

Do you remember sentence diagramming?

j-mac said:
Now come on, we are young, but we weren't born yesterday. We all know how progressives work, using baby steps to achieve their goals....This to me is not what I think most people want.
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inorite?
Increasing access to Treasury Inflation-Protected Securities (TIPS) and I Savings Bonds is the first step to us all becoming socialist Islamo-Atheists at gun point.
 
specklebang said:
With interest rates artificially low and "real world inflation" extremely high and a Federal Reserve trying to destroy the dollar enough to make paying debts easier for them, this isn't a very good idea.
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I agree, but this is a recommendation to the President from Biden none the less.
 
j-mac said:
Could you explain the following parts for me?
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Sounds like "We are going to force every retirement plan to buy huge chunks of US bonds because China ain't going to do it forever."
 
Simon W. Moon said:
Would it help?


Promoting availability of financial products sounds the same as stealing someone's 401k to you.
That's...well...not sure what to say. If the actual words themselves don't convince you, I doubt that even more words would have much impact.

Do you remember sentence diagramming?

inorite?
Increasing access to Treasury Inflation-Protected Securities (TIPS) and I Savings Bonds is the first step to us all becoming socialist Islamo-Atheists at gun point.
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Oh, I see, so you are supposed to post something and not have to bother with input when snarky, childish crap is easier....Why'd you post it then if you didn't want to talk about it?

Good grief.
 
Fisher said:
Sounds like "We are going to force every retirement plan to buy huge chunks of US bonds because China ain't going to do it forever."
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That's what I read as well. But according to Simon we have a problem sentence diagraming.....So....
 
j-mac said:
Oh, I see, so you are supposed to post something and not have to bother with input when snarky, childish crap is easier....Why'd you post it then if you didn't want to talk about it?
Good grief.
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I don't mind talking about it.
I was just pointing out that the words you quoted don't seem to mean what you think they mean. Imho, the meanings of words is an important element of a conversation.
:shrug:
 
Have we ever in American history had a government that became the enemy of the American people? If you have a decent job, if you have a family to support, if you have worked hard all of your life, you are looking over your shoulder full time because you know that Obama is after you and everything that you have.

Obama has favorites that he wants to reward by destroying you and your family.
 
Fisher said:
Sounds like "We are going to force every retirement plan to buy huge chunks of US bonds because China ain't going to do it forever."
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And it will be hailed as one of the greatest "protections" since SS itself was instituted. With one more crash people will be standing in line to get this done.
 
Simon W. Moon said:
I don't mind talking about it.
I was just pointing out that the words you quoted don't seem to mean what you think they mean. Imho, the meanings of words is an important element of a conversation.
:shrug:
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Yep, and now your just not being honest, because I started my quotes with

j-mac said:
Could you explain the following parts for me?
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To which you childishly replied

Simon W. Moon said:
Would it help?
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So save it brother, you don't want to discuss anything.
 
j-mac said:
That's what I read as well. But according to Simon we have a problem sentence diagraming.....So....
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Well perhaps he is correct but there are only two real vehicles that meet this: "Promoting the availability of guaranteed lifetime income products, which transform at least a
portion of retirees’ savings into guaranteed future income" which are either bonds or annuities and when you add in "Transparency and Reliability" then it sounds like public bonds to me.
 
Lutherf said:
And it will be hailed as one of the greatest "protections" since SS itself was instituted. With one more crash people will be standing in line to get this done.
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Well given the economic discussions by the leftists here, I am inclined to believe the rational will be "Well we really don't have to pay the bonds because we pay them social security so it is just a matter of how we account for it."
 
Lutherf said:
And it will be hailed as one of the greatest "protections" since SS itself was instituted. With one more crash people will be standing in line to get this done.
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It was a sunny day in Philadelphia in 1787, and the Constitutional convention had just finished its work. A woman, watching the esteemed gentlemen congratulate themselves, approached one of the young nation's leading statesmen, Ben Franklin. "Mr. Franklin, what kind of government have you given us?" she asked. "A Republic, madam..." Franklin quickly answered, "if you can keep it."

Amerikan Expose - Articles - A Republic If We Can Keep It
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True today, as it was then.
 
Fisher said:
Well given the economic discussions by the leftists here, I am inclined to believe the rational will be "Well we really don't have to pay the bonds because we pay them social security so it is just a matter of how we account for it."
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I never even though of that. I wouldn't be surprised if after this stupid idea would be implemented into failure that some idiot would suggest means testing next. "Well, you were FORCED to divest your retirement plans into our bonds, but you have plenty of money in your bank account so we'll "withold" a portion of your portfolio because you don't need it".
 
Well, a recommendation is only that. None of the rulers want to simplify tax codes because they have too many friends that benefit from the special exceptions buried in other legislation. Even the IRS does not know the tax codes. Those who benefit pay big bucks to attorney/CPA specialists to discover these.

Since there doesn't seem to be any chance of any agreement on taxes coming up, I doubt any new exotic crap like this will become reality. Not that it isn't a govmint mans dream but not very plausible. I hope.


j-mac said:
I agree, but this is a recommendation to the President from Biden none the less.
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Fisher said:
Well given the economic discussions by the leftists here, I am inclined to believe the rational will be "Well we really don't have to pay the bonds because we pay them social security so it is just a matter of how we account for it."
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The leftists around here seem to be convinced that as long as we have checks left in the checkbook we can never be broke. It's truly stunning.
 
LaMidRighter said:
I never even though of that. I wouldn't be surprised if after this stupid idea would be implemented into failure that some idiot would suggest means testing next. "Well, you were FORCED to divest your retirement plans into our bonds, but you have plenty of money in your bank account so we'll "withold" a portion of your portfolio because you don't need it".
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"Ponzi schemes with bonds have worked so well for the social security system, it clearly will work with private plans too. We be sooooo smart. Wanna take a Sauna? I'll massage your back...."
 
tererun said:
OMG the republ;ican BS fear factory is at it again. We must stop the black president from raising taxes on the rich white people who do not even care about 99 percent of other white people as long as they don't pay taxes. Anyway, why is this fear unfounded for most of us?

Average income for full time employed people in the US is 39k (less for the 50 percent of us with a vagina). So this is not even a concern for most of us considering the lowest number they gave for having this tax is in the 48 thousand range. Now before the reps start saying average means over 50 percent of us might have trouble with this you need to understand the mathmatics of avergae, and if you are about to claim something like that you are not smart enough to be in this conversation. The reality is that most full time working americans fall below the average due to the rather large disparity between top incomes and the lowest incomes. So this is not a concern for most americans. For those of you who take the standard deduction and do not itemize this is not even a concern for you as you are already paying enough.

Who is this going to effect? People who make a lot of money and end up with huge deductions and pay little to no taxes. AKA the way more rich than you are. They want you to be afraid because the fiscal cliff is going to really hurt them. They want you to be as afraid as they are because their cliff is bigger than your small slope. So they grabbed a term only they are familiar with and are now shaking it in front of you claiming you will be horribly destroyed if you don't call up your senator in a panic and have a meltdown like they are. However, if you are actually worried do yourself a favor. Find your house reps contact info and anyone with an R next to their name call them up and tell them to quit screwing around and dump norquist and his insanity like the rest of the reps who want to be elected next term. If we get the budget there is no fiscal cliff to worry about and this doesn't mean a thing. Oh, and before the republicans bitch it is the job of congress to pass a budget. It is not their job to pitch another hissy fit because the black guy is still president. get on their ass and tell them to do their job or your state will find a person who can.

You republicans are really getting desperate. obama beat your ass and now has your people by the short and curleys. it is time to raise taxes on the rich. Most people do not know what AMT is because they never need to worry about it. They pay their share of taxes already. they don't have huge deductions they abuse. They don't write off millions of dollars in taxes like the rich do. What is worse is that most of you republicans are poor or lower middle class anyway. You are not rich. This will never apply to you because you will never be rich even with all the opportunities in america. Your money is yours. the black man is not going to redistribute it, and if he actually did redistribute you would get the money because you are not even close to being above that line.

So calm down, stop panicking, and relax. They will handle this before the cliff because it is their cliff. Why they set it up for themselves i will never understand, but they did. They will cave in because it is their loss and not ours. The people who are going to be hammered by this cliff are the rich. this is why the rich people in congress will never let it actually happen because they have so much to lose by this. It is their money, and they own all the big stuff in america. They won't sink it because they like their stuff. They are holding their stuff hostage. This is a bit of comedy done in blazing saddles where the sherrif holds himself hostage with his own gun and all the ignorant townspeople fall for it while the audience of intelligent people laughs. Only this time it is real life and house reps are holding themselves hostage and most of us are going shoot, we dare you.
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Not as bad as your heroes who say that Republicans are taking the food out of the mouths of hungry children, and making senior citizens eat dog food.

Daily Kos: House Republicans pushing $16 billion in food stamp cuts

Clinton offensive against GOP moves to next target -- foes' school-lunch plan - Baltimore Sun

Fear of Hunger Stalks Many Elderly - Page 2 - New York Times

Bruce Gabriel: Don
 
specklebang said:
OMG. Are you serious? Do you have a link about this?

While I don't have a 401K I know what they are and if the government grabs them I will be marching along with all the other victims.

More info appreciated.
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Affirmative I will dig up the proposal.
 
PirateMk1 said:
Affirmative I will dig up the proposal.
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This is the 2008 origins of the proposal.
The $6 Trillion 401K Grab | D Sherman Okst | FINANCIAL SENSE
This site has the origins of the braindead idea, basically the worst offenders are taking it seriously enough to debate it as law as early as 2008. When they should have suggested having a court look into the mental status of the idiot who thought it up.
Dems Target Private Retirement Accounts
And this is the dingbat "economist" who thought the damn thing up.
The testimony of Teresa Ghilarducci, professor of economic policy analysis at the New School for Social Research in New York, in hearings Oct. 7 drew the most attention and criticism. Testifying for the House Committee on Education and Labor, Ghilarducci proposed that the government eliminate tax breaks for 401(k) and similar retirement accounts, such as IRAs, and confiscate workers’ retirement plan accounts and convert them to universal Guaranteed Retirement Accounts (GRAs) managed by the Social Security Administration.
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American said:
Not as bad as your heroes who say that Republicans are taking the food out of the mouths of hungry children, and making senior citizens eat dog food.
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If by heroes you are referring to my grandparents who worked all their lives and paid into medicare only to have it threatened by the people they supported for office, then yes that would be them. They are lazy victims anyway. i mean 2 were army vets who came back and worked and worked full time and were loyal to their companies for full retirement. The other two were the lazy female type who raised kids while maintaining full time jobs for over 40 years. Those damned victims! Thn there are my parents who are just about to reach retirement age after working all of their lives and raising children. They seem to be wondering if they will ever get to retire if the republicans have their way. You don't even want to talk to those people about the joys of privatized health insurance. I don't think there is a single one of them that has not been cheated out of health care by those great insurance people they pay to cover their health care. It is just complaint after complaint about fighting the insurance companies to fix broken bones, remove cancerous tumors, and how after jumping through all the hoops for the health care they pay for the insurance company denies payment for treatments they approved time and time again. What do they expect after loyally paying their insurance and getting approval before any treatments or exams happen? One would think they would get the point that you pay health insurance for the fun of it.
American said:
Daily Kos: House Republicans pushing $16 billion in food stamp cuts
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That does not effect them that much now, but considering they may need them in the future to do things like eat despite working all their lives they seem to want it there. Don't ask me they are just silly about things like eating.
approval before any treatments or exams happen? One would think they would get the point that you pay health insurance for the fun of it.
American said:
Clinton offensive against GOP moves to next target -- foes' school-lunch plan - Baltimore Sun
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Yeah, damned great grandchildren and grandchildren wanting to do things like eat at school. Thopse damned lazy victims. The oldest is in first grade, and it is time for him to get a job.
American said:
Fear of Hunger Stalks Many Elderly - Page 2 - New York Times

Bruce Gabriel: Don
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Seriously, what do you have against old people who built this country anyway? They actually worked all their lives building things like utilities, roads, teaching, and even having their own businesses. What is your problem with them anyway?
 
j-mac said:
Yep, and now your just not being honest, because I started my quotes with
To which you childishly replied
So save it brother, you don't want to discuss anything.
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If you can look at language which says things like "Promoting the availability of" and "give workers a simple way to" and see "theft of private property" it becomes a serious question as to whether or not further explanation will make any difference.
 
LaMidRighter said:
This is the 2008 origins of the proposal.
The $6 Trillion 401K Grab | D Sherman Okst | FINANCIAL SENSE
This site has the origins of the braindead idea, basically the worst offenders are taking it seriously enough to debate it as law as early as 2008. When they should have suggested having a court look into the mental status of the idiot who thought it up.
Dems Target Private Retirement Accounts
And this is the dingbat "economist" who thought the damn thing up.
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here's her actual testimony
in case anyone is interested.

- THE IMPACT OF THE FINANCIAL CRISIS ON WORKERS' RETIREMENT SECURITY

Doesn't seem that she actually said what it's said she said.

Funny thing that. How does that keep happening?
 
Skimming the articles, I think the notion of "grabbing 401ks" is a bit excessive. Apparently, there are some modifications to the system that MIGHT be initiated but nothing indicates that your present 401K wil;l be tampered with or "grabbed".

So hold on to your wallet. Congress has many options when it comes to tapping this vast reservoir. It could eliminate the deduction altogether or just for top earners, further restrict the amount that is deductible (currently $17,500; for those over 50, $23,000), start taxing retirement savings growth, or take back the part that has grown tax-free.

In the throes of a retirement savings crisis, none of these options is appealing. But that last one is most troublesome. At stake is any savings that has accrued tax-free in a Roth IRA. Tax-deferred growth could be a target too if you find yourself in a lower tax bracket in retirement. There is no discernible momentum behind such measures. But a retroactive tax on this sheltered income has been a worry from the start. And now these accounts have a meaningful total—and everything is on the table.



Read more: Fiscal Cliff: Why Congress Might Have to Mess with the 401(k) | TIME.com
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