Walmart workers demand better wages

The Mark · Nov 28, 2012

Jerry said:
I worked for Wall-Mart for 3 years. I did cashiering, cart collecting (which are the people who do carry-outs, aka fit the TV into the car), I've unloaded deliveries, worked in the backroom warehouse, layaway, sold guns and fishing/hunting licenses and bag-tags at sporting goods, and my fav job: outside lawn&guarded during the summer.

I've also been shot at and mortared in Afghanistan.

Losing a child is stressful. Divorce is stressful. Combat is stressful. Preparing to take in 2 small nieces because my sister had a very good chance of dying in brain surgery a couple years ago was stressful.

Only whiny little bitches with no life experience think helping some customers, pushing some carts and stocking shelves is stressful.

Ever been a "lead Tank" in a 40-man raid in World of Warcraft? Even that is more stressful than any job at Wall-Mart.

I was thinking more the managerial slots, in terms of stress. Especially if the minions (such as yourself in this case :2razz

are lazy or whatnot. With you around the manager probably wasn't as stressed.

Jerry · Nov 28, 2012

The Mark said:
I was thinking more the managerial slots, in terms of stress. Especially if the minions (such as yourself in this case :2razz are lazy or whatnot. With you around the manager probably wasn't as stressed.

I don't see any salaried managers protesting. So far these are all cashiers and shelf-stockers.

The Mark · Nov 28, 2012

Jerry said:
I don't see any salaried managers protesting. So far these are all cashiers and shelf-stockers.

Well you must understand, Jerry, that there is a difference between one such as yourself, and some random highschooler. They just can't TAKE the stress, man!

Ok I'm being a bit facetious here... :mrgreen:

LaMidRighter · Nov 28, 2012

The Mark said:
Well you must understand, Jerry, that there is a difference between one such as yourself, and some random highschooler. They just can't TAKE the stress, man!

Ok I'm being a bit facetious here... :mrgreen:

Sheesh. If people think their Walmart jobs are stressfull they should try waiting tables in a busy restaurant, when it's asses and elbows in the foyer it's nothing but pressure in the dining room. Management's favorite gripe "Make your tables happy, but hurry them up for God's sake!"

Kal'Stang · Nov 28, 2012

Jerry said:
I worked for Wall-Mart for 3 years. I did cashiering, cart collecting (which are the people who do carry-outs, aka fit the TV into the car), I've unloaded deliveries, worked in the backroom warehouse, layaway, sold guns and fishing/hunting licenses and bag-tags at sporting goods, and my fav job: outside lawn&guarded during the summer.

I've also been shot at and mortared in Afghanistan.

Losing a child is stressful. Divorce is stressful. Combat is stressful. Preparing to take in 2 small nieces because my sister had a very good chance of dying in brain surgery a couple years ago was stressful.

Only whiny little bitches with no life experience think helping some customers, pushing some carts and stocking shelves is stressful.

Ever been a "lead Tank" in a 40-man raid in World of Warcraft? Even that is more stressful than any job at Wall-Mart.

I was going to respond to what he said but quite frankly....you can't top this.

cpwill · Nov 28, 2012

Boo Radley said:
Lets be clear, as we do tend to talk apples and oranges when we talk. We're not talking just stock persons. The comment referred to work force, below the CEO. This includes many who work in the information-driven economy, effected profoundly by it, who are still lagging light years behind the CEO.

Yes and no. Knowledge workers tend to be swallowed up in the averages. Mathematicians can incredible bank if they are good at programing.

There is no logical rationale for this gap.

Certainly there is. You appear to be assigning "illogical" to "that which I do not understand"; usually this is a fallacy in foreign policy analysis but you appear to have imported it.

Now, any business is free to be illogical and throw their money away as much as they want

And those who do so will be eaten alive by the merciless competition of the market. So how are those companies with highly paid CEO's doing, anywho? Getting eaten alive by the companies who don't pay enough to attract the highest-quality personnel? Realize that the CEO's you are complaining about are the creme de la creme of the business management sector - they are the Bo Jacksons, the Nolan Ryan's, the superstars of their field.

Nonsense. First, Knowledge workers as a term includes more than CEOs.

Agreed. Which is why pulling CEO's in particular out is silly. Why not pull out CFO's, or IT programmers?

You're not trying to sneak something past are you?

No, I am discussing how large economic change has shifted us to where the leveraging of knowledge produces either vastly greater return, or vastly greater loss; putting quality knowledge work at a premium.

Second, what someone is paid is not necessarily related to any objective measure of worth.

In Government, yes. In the market, much less so.

Certainly the CEO who badly managed his company and lost it can't be actually worth much.

If he did indeed mismanage his company, he is certainly not worth as much as one who managed it well.

Harry Guerrilla · Nov 28, 2012

Boo Radley said:
Not a monopoly. And yes, of course you'd take it. But understand where it came from and why.

Saying it's not, doesn't make it so.
There is but one source, the employer can buy labor from, at one set price.
It is by definition, a monopoly.

Wiki said:
A monopoly (from Greek monos μόνος (alone or single) + polein πωλεῖν (to sell)) exists when a specific person or enterprise is the only supplier of a particular commodity......Monopolies are thus characterized by a lack of economic competition to produce the good or service and a lack of viable substitute goods.[2] The verb "monopolize" refers to the process by which a company gains the ability to raise prices or exclude competitors. In economics, a monopoly is a single seller. In law, a monopoly is a business entity that has significant market power, that is, the power, to charge high prices.[3] Although monopolies may be big businesses, size is not a characteristic of a monopoly. A small business may still have the power to raise prices in a small industry (or market).[4]

Monopoly - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

OscarB63 · Nov 28, 2012

Jerry said:
I worked for Wall-Mart for 3 years. I did cashiering, cart collecting (which are the people who do carry-outs, aka fit the TV into the car), I've unloaded deliveries, worked in the backroom warehouse, layaway, sold guns and fishing/hunting licenses and bag-tags at sporting goods, and my fav job: outside lawn&guarded during the summer.

I've also been shot at and mortared in Afghanistan.

Losing a child is stressful. Divorce is stressful. Combat is stressful. Preparing to take in 2 small nieces because my sister had a very good chance of dying in brain surgery a couple years ago was stressful.

Only whiny little bitches with no life experience think helping some customers, pushing some carts and stocking shelves is stressful.

you have to understand that less than one percent of the population has our unique set of experience. for those of us who have experienced the stress of combat....everything else is pretty much a walk in the freakin park.

Ever been a "lead Tank" in a 40-man raid in World of Warcraft? Even that is more stressful than any job at Wall-Mart.

hey...I'll put the stress of being the main healer in a 40-man raid in EQII up against the stress of being lead tank anyday.

Boo Radley · Nov 28, 2012

Kal'Stang said:
Union claimed that Boeing was Union Busting due to some comments made by one of the higher ups. Court agreed.

It would be interesting to read. But if the company broke a law, would you prefer the court ignore that?

Boo Radley · Nov 28, 2012

cpwill said:
Yes and no. Knowledge workers tend to be swallowed up in the averages. Mathematicians can incredible bank if they are good at programing.

Certainly there is. You appear to be assigning "illogical" to "that which I do not understand"; usually this is a fallacy in foreign policy analysis but you appear to have imported it.

And those who do so will be eaten alive by the merciless competition of the market. So how are those companies with highly paid CEO's doing, anywho? Getting eaten alive by the companies who don't pay enough to attract the highest-quality personnel? Realize that the CEO's you are complaining about are the creme de la creme of the business management sector - they are the Bo Jacksons, the Nolan Ryan's, the superstars of their field.

Agreed. Which is why pulling CEO's in particular out is silly. Why not pull out CFO's, or IT programmers?

No, I am discussing how large economic change has shifted us to where the leveraging of knowledge produces either vastly greater return, or vastly greater loss; putting quality knowledge work at a premium.

In Government, yes. In the market, much less so.

If he did indeed mismanage his company, he is certainly not worth as much as one who managed it well.

OK, you're doing the excessive breaking again. I don't want you to miss the points while doing so. Mathematicians get no where near CEOs, not in the same stratosphere. So, they prove my point, and not yours.

And while you seem to believe that when anyone calls your nonsense what it is that this means they "don't" understand, the fact remains that CEOs are above, by light years, knowledge workers. It is knowledge workers who were are largely comparing them against. Not merely manual laborers.

And people are not paid what they are worth in an objective manner, even in the market. I know many think the market is magic, but they tend to both overpay and under pay, and do often get worth wrong. Businesses in the market place do fail, and this has not stopped no matter how long the market has been in place. GM did hire poor CEOs and mismanage there company. So did Hostess. And we could build quite a list if we wanted to.

Boo Radley · Nov 28, 2012

Harry Guerrilla said:
Saying it's not, doesn't make it so.
There is but one source, the employer can buy labor from, at one set price.
It is by definition, a monopoly.

Monopoly - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

I admire your creative use of language, but the the employer is not the buyer. The worker is. And the worker chooses. They have options, and often can choose between unions and approaches. So, no, it is not a monopoly.

Harry Guerrilla · Nov 28, 2012

Boo Radley said:
I admire your creative use of language, but the the employer is not the buyer. The worker is. And the worker chooses. They have options, and often can choose between unions and approaches. So, no, it is not a monopoly.

There is nothing creative about it.
The employer is buying labor from the employee.
Wiggle and deflect any way you want, it doesn't change that.

Boo Radley · Nov 28, 2012

Harry Guerrilla said:
There is nothing creative about it.
The employer is buying labor from the employee.
Wiggle and deflect any way you want, it doesn't change that.

No wiggling, no deflecting. The employer doesn't buy the union, the employee does. You are in fact being creative.

Jerry · Nov 28, 2012

OscarB63 said:
hey...I'll put the stress of being the main healer in a 40-man raid in EQII up against the stress of being lead tank anyday.

My shammy healer is going to hit 90 today (even if it kills me), so I'll soon find out

OscarB63 · Nov 28, 2012

Jerry said:
My shammy healer is going to hit 90 today (even if it kills me), so I'll soon find out

haven't played WoW in nearly a year. my daughter convinced me to switch over to RIFT. so far, i like it much better. much more flexibility with character types. only 4 basic "types" (warrior, cleric, scout and mage) but the amount of customization is almost limitless. i have a 'cleric' that does almost as much damage as a tank would. If you have the time and $$$, i highly recommend giving it a tryout.

Jerry · Nov 28, 2012

OscarB63 said:
haven't played WoW in nearly a year. my daughter convinced me to switch over to RIFT. so far, i like it much better. much more flexibility with character types. only 4 basic "types" (warrior, cleric, scout and mage) but the amount of customization is almost limitless. i have a 'cleric' that does almost as much damage as a tank would. If you have the time and $$$, i highly recommend giving it a tryout.

The last time I heard about Rift, they hadn't gotten rid of the botting exploits yet, and addons weren't allowed.

Mustachio · Nov 28, 2012

Jerry said:
I worked for Wall-Mart for 3 years. I did cashiering, cart collecting (which are the people who do carry-outs, aka fit the TV into the car), I've unloaded deliveries, worked in the backroom warehouse, layaway, sold guns and fishing/hunting licenses and bag-tags at sporting goods, and my fav job: outside lawn&guarded during the summer.

I've also been shot at and mortared in Afghanistan.

Losing a child is stressful. Divorce is stressful. Combat is stressful. Preparing to take in 2 small nieces because my sister had a very good chance of dying in brain surgery a couple years ago was stressful.

Only whiny little bitches with no life experience think helping some customers, pushing some carts and stocking shelves is stressful.

Ever been a "lead Tank" in a 40-man raid in World of Warcraft? Even that is more stressful than any job at Wall-Mart.

Ahh, a classic internet response. You worked at "Wall-Mart" for three years and worked at every single position inside the store. You should have also said that you worked at a Wal-Mart in every state, that would have been a good touch. But if you want people to think you worked at Wal-Mart for three years I would suggest that you spell it correctly. That put a damper on it for me.

Anyway, to respond to the substance of your comment - what you just said could be applied to any job in the world. You could say "waiter? I fought in all the wars and only a donkey loving caviar eatin' son of a jerk face would think being a waiter is stressful!" Would this comment be of any meaning? Sure it would, but only to you. People get stressed out at their jobs, especially when they make very little money and have no prospects for the future.

LaMidRighter said:
Sheesh. If people think their Walmart jobs are stressfull they should try waiting tables in a busy restaurant, when it's asses and elbows in the foyer it's nothing but pressure in the dining room. Management's favorite gripe "Make your tables happy, but hurry them up for God's sake!"

It seems like people in this thread think I work at Walmart. First, If I worked there I would say Wal-Mart. Second, I went to Walmart for the first time in 2006 while passing through Hastings, Minnesota, and I didn't go there again after that until 2011. I'm not Walmart lover. I loathe Walmart. Third, I have had a lot of jobs in my life, and I have had a lot of unfortunate medical problems. Neither stress or experiences have been lacking in my case.

The really unfortunate thing is that there are no Walmart employees here to talk to your firsthand. But I have been happy to stand up for them as I would be to stand up for anybody being exploited by anyone anywhere. Just like I said - Walmart comes to a community, kills local commerce, takes on the displaced employees and hire them to work long hours for little money and bare bones benefits because they know they can take advantage of these people. That's the truth.

LaMidRighter · Nov 28, 2012

Mustachio said:
It seems like people in this thread think I work at Walmart.

If I thought you ever worked for the company I would have said so. My commentary was on the griping about how hard the employees "feel" they have it versus reality.

First, If I worked there I would say Wal-Mart. Second, I went to Walmart for the first time in 2006 while passing through Hastings, Minnesota, and I didn't go there again after that until 2011. I'm not Walmart lover. I loathe Walmart. Third, I have had a lot of jobs in my life, and I have had a lot of unfortunate medical problems. Neither stress or experiences have been lacking in my case.

Fine, but stress is very relative. And it seems like some either can't handle job responsibility OR they want to be overcompensated by overplaying their "hardships", either way it's not a commentary on your situation but rather at will employees wanting to run the business. When one is employed they know the conditions at hiring, it's fair to ask for changes, but not so much to demand them.

The really unfortunate thing is that there are no Walmart employees here to talk to your firsthand. But I have been happy to stand up for them as I would be to stand up for anybody being exploited by anyone anywhere. Just like I said - Walmart comes to a community, kills local commerce, takes on the displaced employees and hire them to work long hours for little money and bare bones benefits because they know they can take advantage of these people. That's the truth.

Defend them all you like, it doesn't change the facts at hand; They are at will employees, easily replaceable, have little leverage(generous appraisal), and demand they be compensated at higher levels than their demand commands.

Mustachio · Nov 28, 2012

LaMidRighter said:
Defend them all you like, it doesn't change the facts at hand; They are at will employees, easily replaceable, have little leverage(generous appraisal), and demand they be compensated at higher levels than their demand commands.

This thread is about employees demanding better wages, but the vast majority of their employees never say anything and they never would say anything. They are subjected to the same things we've all been subjected to as base level employees. Being asked to cover for other employees or every other employee, preventing us from having benefits and being eligible for a promotion. We're not going to stop corporations from treating their employees that way, which is why we should require them to provide health care to any employee who makes the majority of their income in that job. I also think we should have a minimum wage increase for employees depending on that job to pay their bills or for those who have children. Again, this thread is about employees speaking up for themselves, but that's pretty rare. Has anyone in this thread ever gone on strike? Has anyone posting here picketed their employer? Have you tried to start a union?

LaMidRighter · Nov 28, 2012

Mustachio said:
Mustachio said:

This thread is about employees demanding better wages, but the vast majority of their employees never say anything and they never would say anything.

Click to expand...

I can acknowledge that, and that's fine. My comments are targeted to specific employees trying to play boss, and the unions trying to force the hand of the company to pay what they want. Employment is not supposed to work that way.

They are subjected to the same things we've all been subjected to as base level employees. Being asked to cover for other employees or every other employee, preventing us from having benefits and being eligible for a promotion.

Click to expand...

That is base level employment though, you've got to start somewhere. The idea though isn't to bring pay and benefits to an inflated value but rather to encourage the employees to increase theirs.

We're not going to stop corporations from treating their employees that way, which is why we should require them to provide health care to any employee who makes the majority of their income in that job. I also think we should have a minimum wage increase for employees depending on that job to pay their bills or for those who have children.

Click to expand...

Negative. There is no reason to give the government any more authority than it has asserted for itself, there is already too much intervention in the market.

Again, this thread is about employees speaking up for themselves, but that's pretty rare.

Click to expand...

This thread is about employees demanding more value than they command, that isn't "speaking up" for oneself, that is the definition of feeling entitled to that which hasn't been earned. I've paid my dues, and I will have to pay more, the difference is I take what is offered happily and look up.

Has anyone in this thread ever gone on strike?

Click to expand...

Not me, and I never will.

Has anyone posting here picketed their employer?

Click to expand...

I'll tell you this, I'd like to turn my ideas into reality and become an employer, I would rather fire an employee than have them assert my risk should be their overall reward.

Have you tried to start a union?

Click to expand...

See above, and I would shutter a company before I would allow a union to be formed.

Harry Guerrilla · Nov 28, 2012

Boo Radley said:
No wiggling, no deflecting. The employer doesn't buy the union, the employee does. You are in fact being creative.

See you keep changing the relationship.
The employer is buying labor, from the union, they have to negotiate with, the union.
The union is a monopoly on labor, for the employer.

DVSentinel · Nov 28, 2012

Boo Radley said:
It would be interesting to read. But if the company broke a law, would you prefer the court ignore that?

Depends on the law. There are many laws that I don't like that I think it would be ok for courts to ignore. Oh wait a minute, scratch that, if I wanted to ignore law or the Constitution, I would be a Union loving Liberal.

Mustachio · Nov 28, 2012

LaMidRighter said:
I've paid my dues, and I will have to pay more, the difference is I take what is offered happily and look up.

I'll tell you this, I'd like to turn my ideas into reality and become an employer, I would rather fire an employee than have them assert my risk should be their overall reward. See above, and I would shutter a company before I would allow a union to be formed.

What you are saying is that it is selfish to ask for more, but not selfish to refuse to give from what you have. If your car breaks down on the highway, is it selfish to ask for a ride back into town? If a man gets on the bus to go to work and finds he has no change in his pocket, is it selfish to ask for change from another passenger? And is it respectable to have a pocket full of change but refuse to lend a hand to this man asking nothing more than a few quarters that may very well end up underneath your couch cushion? Now consider the same situation with the knowledge that right before the man got on the bus, his change was stolen. Did the individuals in Walmart's board room ever ask for more? Did they ever speak up for themselves, demand they be fairly compensated for their work? Do you really think the millionaires in this country made it to where they are without ever taking a penny more than what they were given?

Have you ever considered that maybe you're not an employer because you have never asked for more? If you refuse to see virtue in the "have nots" standing up for themselves, that's fine. But you are mistaken in presuming the virtue of the "haves" in this matter. These are people who were given everything and still demanded more. You can stand up for them, but make no mistake about who you are standing up for.

Jerry · Nov 28, 2012

Mustachio said:
What you are saying is that it is selfish to ask for more, but not selfish to refuse to give from what you have. If your car breaks down on the highway, is it selfish to ask for a ride back into town? If a man gets on the bus to go to work and finds he has no change in his pocket, is it selfish to ask for change from another passenger? And is it respectable to have a pocket full of change but refuse to lend a hand to this man asking nothing more than a few quarters that may very well end up underneath your couch cushion? Now consider the same situation with the knowledge that right before the man got on the bus, his change was stolen. Did the individuals in Walmart's board room ever ask for more? Did they ever speak up for themselves, demand they be fairly compensated for their work? Do you really think the millionaires in this country made it to where they are without ever taking a penny more than what they were given?

Have you ever considered that maybe you're not an employer because you have never asked for more? If you refuse to see virtue in the "have nots" standing up for themselves, that's fine. But you are mistaken in presuming the virtue of the "haves" in this matter. These are people who were given everything and still demanded more. You can stand up for them, but make no mistake about who you are standing up for.

You get paid what you're worth, not a penny more. If you want more, earn it.

Boo Radley · Nov 28, 2012

Harry Guerrilla said:
See you keep changing the relationship.
The employer is buying labor, from the union, they have to negotiate with, the union.
The union is a monopoly on labor, for the employer.

That is simply not true. The union doesn't hire anyone, so it can't sell it to the employer. The union merely works for employees, hired by the employer, to negotiate a contract. All employees are hired by the company. You are the one mischaracterizing the relationships.

Walmart workers demand better wages

The Mark

Sporadic insanity normal.

Jerry

The Mark

Sporadic insanity normal.

LaMidRighter

Klattu Verata Nicto

Kal'Stang

cpwill

Harry Guerrilla

OscarB63

Farts in Elevators

Boo Radley

Boo Radley

Boo Radley

Harry Guerrilla

Boo Radley

Jerry

OscarB63

Farts in Elevators

Jerry

Mustachio

LaMidRighter

Klattu Verata Nicto

Mustachio

LaMidRighter

Klattu Verata Nicto

Harry Guerrilla

DVSentinel

Mustachio

Jerry

Boo Radley