• This is a political forum that is non-biased/non-partisan and treats every person's position on topics equally. This debate forum is not aligned to any political party. In today's politics, many ideas are split between and even within all the political parties. Often we find ourselves agreeing on one platform but some topics break our mold. We are here to discuss them in a civil political debate. If this is your first visit to our political forums, be sure to check out the RULES. Registering for debate politics is necessary before posting. Register today to participate - it's free!

Walmart workers demand better wages

Bobcat said:
by putting two unrelated curves on a chart you are the one embarrassing yourself. How about a curve comparing oyster harvests to the income of native americans living on reservations?
Click to expand...
ttwtt78640 said:
Corelation does not indicate causation. One could just as easily show corelation of the increased use of computers, the increase in fuel effeciency of cars or the increased availability of new technology allowing production per worker to increase. You simply show close (but not exact) corelation of two factors, but not causation.
Click to expand...

They are not unrelated at all though, it goes EXACTLY as expected, you can also track it on the way up ... Unionization happened in the later 30s and 40s and created the worlds best middle class.

You have a theory, you have rational expectations and the evidence points it out ... its not JUST corrolation, we have a causal explination.

Bobcat said:
Then why do you support obama? MOst of his campaign contributions came from rich people. Do you think any hollywood people or rappers contributed to Romney?
Click to expand...

Where do I support Obama?
 
Bobcat said:
right, but I beat you too it :) see # 797
Click to expand...

Indeed you did. Is it not amazing that "facts" can be so easily manufactured to "prove" any argument to those wanting to believe it. :)
 
RGacky3 said:
They are not unrelated at all though, it goes EXACTLY as expected, you can also track it on the way up ... Unionization happened in the later 30s and 40s and created the worlds best middle class.

You have a theory, you have rational expectations and the evidence points it out ... its not JUST corrolation, we have a causal explination.



Where do I support Obama?
Click to expand...

Is 50% exactly the same as 15%? Please use the same scale on each line and the ratio of the curve does not match at all, only the direction of the curve matches.
 
RGacky3 said:
They are not unrelated at all though, it goes EXACTLY as expected, you can also track it on the way up ... Unionization happened in the later 30s and 40s and created the worlds best middle class.

You have a theory, you have rational expectations and the evidence points it out ... its not JUST corrolation, we have a causal explination.



Where do I support Obama?
Click to expand...

LOL, your chart has been debunked, lets move on.

if you don't support obama, who do you support? you say that your are a socialist, obama is a socialist. Seems like you are the perfect obamabot.
 
ttwtt78640 said:
Is 50% exactly the same as 15%? Please use the same scale on each line and the ratio of the curve does not match at all, only the direction of the curve matches.
Click to expand...

THey are measuring 2 different things, but the velocity pretty much match, except it still happens as expected, unions decline, and so do middle class incomes.
 
Bobcat said:
LOL, your chart has been debunked, lets move on.

if you don't support obama, who do you support? you say that your are a socialist, obama is a socialist. Seems like you are the perfect obamabot.
Click to expand...

It hasn't been debunked, just ignored.

Obama is not a socialist ...
 
RGacky3 said:
THey are measuring 2 different things, but the velocity pretty much match, except it still happens as expected, unions decline, and so do middle class incomes.
Click to expand...

there is no cause and affect relationship between those two measures. you have put a red herring on the table and it smells pretty bad as it rots.
 
RGacky3 said:
It hasn't been debunked, just ignored.

Obama is not a socialist ...
Click to expand...

Correct---technically, obama is a marxist collectivist. Marx said "from each according to his abilities, to each according to his needs" Obama wants to redistribute income and wealth and provide for everyone's "needs".
 
Bobcat said:
there is no cause and affect relationship between those two measures. you have put a red herring on the table and it smells pretty bad as it rots.
Click to expand...

Yes there is ... The cause is lack of labor power, in the form of Unions, and thus collective wage bargaining and decision making power, thus lower wages and more layoffs and outsourcing thus lower aggrigate demand thus lower sales ...
 
RGacky3 said:
Yes there is ... The cause is lack of labor power, in the form of Unions, and thus collective wage bargaining and decision making power, thus lower wages and more layoffs and outsourcing thus lower aggrigate demand thus lower sales ...
Click to expand...

wrong, but if believing that makes you happy, go right ahead.
 
Bobcat said:
Correct---technically, obama is a marxist collectivist. Marx said "from each according to his abilities, to each according to his needs" Obama wants to redistribute income and wealth and provide for everyone's "needs".
Click to expand...

Marx did say that, but that actually first came from the Book of acts in the bible and was no means Marx's creation, or really a integral part of Marxism which is positive economics not normative.

Also Obama doesn't want to redistribute wealth and income any more than any other president in history.
 
RGacky3 said:
They are not unrelated at all though, it goes EXACTLY as expected, you can also track it on the way up ... Unionization happened in the later 30s and 40s and created the worlds best middle class.

You have a theory, you have rational expectations and the evidence points it out ... its not JUST corrolation, we have a causal explination.



Where do I support Obama?
Click to expand...

Perhaps your middle class prosperity/labor trends more closely follow the import/export balance of trade of the US than anything else: Importing Products or Exporting Jobs - IOU Foundation
 
Bobcat said:
wrong, but if believing that makes you happy, go right ahead.
Click to expand...

You have to make an actual argument ... but given this thread, it doesn't seam like your capable of that or understanding the facts, or being in touch with reality at all.
 
RGacky3 said:
Which has to do with destruction of unions as well, since unions protected local jobs.
Click to expand...

Unions do not protect local jobs, they simply increase the cost of labor, not in any way tied to an increase in production of that labor.
 
ttwtt78640 said:
Unions do not protect local jobs, they simply increase the cost of labor, not in any way tied to an increase in production of that labor.
Click to expand...

No, they also restrict purely profitable decision making that hurts labor ... such as outsourcing, productivity has never been the problem in the US.

Union power is a large reason why German industry has not been able to outsource.
 
RGacky3 said:
You have to make an actual argument ... but given this thread, it doesn't seam like your capable of that or understanding the facts, or being in touch with reality at all.
Click to expand...

I find it difficult to argue with a turnip. Your pro-union rants are simply wrong, but as I said, if it makes you feel good, have at it.
 
Bobcat said:
I find it difficult to argue with a turnip. Your pro-union rants are simply wrong, but as I said, if it makes you feel good, have at it.
Click to expand...

So far, I've given evidence, logic, fact, reason and so on ... all you have is "YOU'RE WRONG" ... thats it ... nothing. But by all means continue your nonsense, but don't expect any intellegent people to respect a position you cannot defend.
 
RGacky3 said:
No, they also restrict purely profitable decision making that hurts labor ... such as outsourcing, productivity has never been the problem in the US.

Union power is a large reason why German industry has not been able to outsource.
Click to expand...

Why is there no longer a textile industry in the USA? why is there no longer a commercial shipbuilding industry in the USA? Why are light bulbs made in China? Why are GM cars made in China and Mexico? Unions, my little friend. Unions have destroyed american industries and lost american jobs.
 
RGacky3 said:
No, they also restrict purely profitable decision making that hurts labor ... such as outsourcing, productivity has never been the problem in the US.

Union power is a large reason why German industry has not been able to outsource.
Click to expand...

You are mixing apples and oranges here. Union power, i.e. influence on gov't trade policy, is not the same as productivity. Compare the productivity of non union Toyota and union GM in their US auto plants.
 
Bobcat said:
Why is there no longer a textile industry in the USA? why is there no longer a commercial shipbuilding industry in the USA? Why are light bulbs made in China? Why are GM cars made in China and Mexico? Unions, my little friend. Unions have destroyed american industries and lost american jobs.
Click to expand...

I've answered this already.

This outsourcing happened in the 80s and 90s mainly, AFTER UNIONS WERE WEAKEND ... and after neo-liberal policies ... So obviously its not the unions fault, since those things happened post union decline ....
 
RGacky3 said:
So far, I've given evidence, logic, fact, reason and so on ... all you have is "YOU'RE WRONG" ... thats it ... nothing. But by all means continue your nonsense, but don't expect any intellegent people to respect a position you cannot defend.
Click to expand...

LOL, you amuse me with your libtardian logic. you post a foolish chart comparing to unrelated things and then proclaim your conclusions from that meaningless chart as gospel. :lamo
 
ttwtt78640 said:
You are mixing apples and oranges here. Union power, i.e. influence on gov't trade policy, is not the same as productivity. Compare the productivity of non union Toyota and union GM in their US auto plants.
Click to expand...

I wasn't talking about productivity ... nor influence on gov't trade policy, I was talking about Union influence on corporate policy.
 
haymarket said:
Have you cleaned up behind the elephant? But I bet you can judge that to be a pretty crappy job just the same.

Have you ever climbed into the hold of a garbage truck to scrub it out periodically? But I bet you can judge that to be a pretty lousy job just the same.

Are you following me here or do you need some other examples?

Jobs a little better than minimum wage where your employer actively works to subvert your rights and manipulates your hours so you never qualify for benefits fit right into the definition of a lousy job.

Why is WM the target? Probably because their size and success makes them the poster pin up boy for everything that is wrong with the economic trends these days
*** rabidly anti labor union
*** expects government to subsidize their lousy wages with tax payer funded welfare/food stamp payments to their workers
*** buys products from overseas sweat shops who have stolen millions of American jobs
*** ugly stores where customer service is almost nonexistent
*** drives out smaller stores and businesses from towns all across America
*** bullies towns and cities to get breaks and assistance that other businesses cannot get giving them unfair advantage

and that is just to start
Click to expand...

I agree 100% with your implication. We MUST end welfare NOW to stop the corporate subsidies. If we must have a God-less public policy, the Survival of the Fittest should be our national policy!!!! :bravo:
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top Bottom