• This is a political forum that is non-biased/non-partisan and treats every person's position on topics equally. This debate forum is not aligned to any political party. In today's politics, many ideas are split between and even within all the political parties. Often we find ourselves agreeing on one platform but some topics break our mold. We are here to discuss them in a civil political debate. If this is your first visit to our political forums, be sure to check out the RULES. Registering for debate politics is necessary before posting. Register today to participate - it's free!

Walmart workers demand better wages

ttwtt78640 said:
What? Minimum wage is set by the gov't not Walmart or McDonalds. When did these entry level, low/semi-skilled positions pay more? What has changed, IMHO, is the ability to imply that now any job should allow a comfortable, independent existance. When I worked a single, full time job, at the minimum wage I knew, full well, that I would not be able to afford renting without a roommate, driving a "good" car and certainly did not expect to be able to support any dependents on that pay. What many now seem to expect is that these same entry level jobs will somehow allow us to live comfortably by either forcing their pay rates up or to supplement that meager income with gov't assistance making a single "McJob" become sufficient for independent living, or even raising a family.
Click to expand...

Actually, these jobs were paid higher before Walmart took over the world. That is simple fact. As to extending our arguments to mean that we think that Walmart jobs should yield a 'comfortable' existence, that is your doing, and is on you. Please quote where someone said they wanted Walmart work to yield a comfortable life.
 
I think companies like Walmart, Exxon, Enron, BP, Bank of America, Citi, Chase, McDonald's, etc use people up as employees and customers. They don't go away but they're eventually labeled for what they are, the big nasty.
 
Dezaad said:
You haven't proven your assertions either. Very few of us ever do here, actually. We state our opinions and give indications as to the basis on which we formed them, but vanishingly rarely does anyone here ever make an explicit and sound logical argument. What is your point?
Click to expand...

For their to be exploitation, there has to be few or no choices of an alternative.
Walmart does not have a monopoly on unskilled labor.

Payscale says that Walmart pay's it's employees, on average, 3% below market, but they do not include the benefits like in the store discount card, which can more than make up the difference.

Problem is here, that big companies tend to pay more in tax advantaged benefits, rather than direct cash compensation.
Why? because it benefits the employer and employee, more than you think.
 
Mycroft said:
Do you really think a corporation such as Walmart got rich by avoiding taxes?
Click to expand...
Oh no. I'm sorry but I'm not going down that road; I would like to stay on the one that you started to go down however. Please note that you did state:
earlier said:
As I have with other posters, I reject your contention that Walmart has any responsibility or mandate to improve the general state of our economy or to reduce the number of people who take government benefits. Their only responsibility it toward maximizing the profits of their stockholders.
Click to expand...

Now seeing that Walmart would be poorer if those tax cuts and loopholes were removed, I stand by my earlier insertion. ;)
 
Harry Guerrilla said:
There is no reason for them to unionize other than exploitation.
Their job skills and abilities are not sufficient enough to warrant special protections.
Click to expand...

BS!

Just like the corporate mantra is corporate profits at all cost, regardless of how it affects our workers, the workers mantra should be, individual profits at all cost, regardless of how it affects Walmart.

Turn about is fair play!
 
ttwtt78640 said:
What? Minimum wage is set by the gov't not Walmart or McDonalds. When did these entry level, low/semi-skilled positions pay more? What has changed, IMHO, is the ability to imply that now any job should allow a comfortable, independent existance. When I worked a single, full time job, at the minimum wage I knew, full well, that I would not be able to afford renting without a roommate, driving a "good" car and certainly did not expect to be able to support any dependents on that pay. What many now seem to expect is that these same entry level jobs will somehow allow us to live comfortably by either forcing their pay rates up or to supplement that meager income with gov't assistance making a single "McJob" become sufficient for independent living, or even raising a family.
Click to expand...

All your opponents want is for wallmart to pay a simple living wage for the person earning it. We're not asking for it to support a family, just the person earning it. Stop blowing things out of proportion.

IMHO, it's only natural to expect that. When a person spends their days earning for a corporation, does that same corporation not have an obligation to them?
 
waas said:
All your opponents want is for wallmart to pay a simple living wage for the person earning it. We're not asking for it to support a family, just the person earning it. Stop blowing things out of proportion.

IMHO, it's only natural to expect that. When a person spends their days earning for a corporation, does that same corporation not have an obligation to them?
Click to expand...

The problem is that living wages are subjective.
Walmart employees always have the option of buying shares with a bonus, to earn additional quarterly profits.
 
Harry Guerrilla said:
For their to be exploitation, there has to be few or no choices of an alternative.
Walmart does not have a monopoly on unskilled labor.
Click to expand...
That is an oversimplified model of the dynamic in play.

Payscale says that Walmart pay's it's employees, on average, 3% below market, but they do not include the benefits like in the store discount card, which can more than make up the difference.
Click to expand...
Over time, Walmart's way of doing business have moved the market average down. Other stores have had to compete with a company that successfully exploited its workforce, and to meet that aggressive competitor in the marketplace, have had to behave more like Walmart. To quote current averages is meaningless in this kind of a context.

Problem is here, that big companies tend to pay more in tax advantaged benefits, rather than direct cash compensation.
Why? because it benefits the employer and employee, more than you think.
Click to expand...
 
So are Walmart workers part of the 47% that don't pull their weight?
 
The only reason for them to unionize is because they can not keep their jobs any other way if they 'strike'.

In this economy if they walked off the job there are 100 people to replace them.

Everyone wants to look at the whole 'living wage' equation from one side. The income side. They never want to look at the spending side. Either it is dismissed as having to accept inflation, or over spending is dismissed as private. It is still inappropriate to put the full burden on the employer. They need a job done, they are willing to pay X amount. They should have no other obligations to provide anything else.

If things cost too much, well you can't be blaming Wal-mart for that!
 
Dezaad said:
That is an oversimplified model of the dynamic in play.
Click to expand...

Not at all.

Dezaad said:
Over time, Walmart's way of doing business have moved the market average down. Other stores have had to compete with a company that successfully exploited its workforce, and to meet that aggressive competitor in the marketplace, have had to behave more like Walmart. To quote current averages is meaningless in this kind of a context.
Click to expand...

Walmart can not have that power, they're reach is limited to some retail and grocery goods.
Walmart has virtually little effect on low skilled fast food and other similar industry wages.

Not only that but many companies in the same sector, have a different market preference which can support higher wages, Publix and Target for instance.
 
Dezaad said:
That is an oversimplified model of the dynamic in play.

Over time, Walmart's way of doing business have moved the market average down. Other stores have had to compete with a company that successfully exploited its workforce, and to meet that aggressive competitor in the marketplace, have had to behave more like Walmart. To quote current averages is meaningless in this kind of a context.
Click to expand...

I don't believe that. WalMart has sucked up 1.5 million retail workers from the labor market. If anything, if their pay was as bad as it's purported to be, market forces should have forced other retailers to pay better than WalMart in order to attract employees.

Retail has always been low pay.

When a company is unionized, it's costs go up by 25 to 35%. Talk about putting WalMart at a competitive disadvantage. The last WalMart store unionized was in Canada. WalMart shut down the store.

What Is the Cost of Unions? - Adams, Nash, Haskell & Sheridan - Labor Relations Consultants
 
Harry Guerrilla said:
They organize into a union, in order to exploit.
Creating a labor monopoly, to artificially drive up wages, is exploitation.
Click to expand...

OOOOHHHH!~!!!! I thought you meant they organized into a labor union to STOP being exploited.
 
haymarket said:
OOOOHHHH!~!!!! I thought you meant they organized into a labor union to STOP being exploited.
Click to expand...

If there are alternatives, labor has choices and attempts at exploitation are limited.
Unionizing Walmart employees is just an attempt at them, creating a monopoly on labor.

Something that would otherwise be illegal, as it is purposefully anti competitive.
 
Dezaad said:
That is an oversimplified model of the dynamic in play.

Over time, Walmart's way of doing business have moved the market average down. Other stores have had to compete with a company that successfully exploited its workforce, and to meet that aggressive competitor in the marketplace, have had to behave more like Walmart. To quote current averages is meaningless in this kind of a context.
Click to expand...

Typical liberal talking points. No one has to work for Walmart, period. Further there are people standing in line hoping to get a job at Walmart, hardly they are being exploited.
 
DA60 said:
Thoughts anyone?
Click to expand...

I hope those workers are successful in getting a union, raising their wages and actually being able to work full time employment at those stores. Especially seeing how Wal-mart practically destroyed the mom and pop shops competitions that would have otherwise employed people with full time work at a decent wage. Wal-mart if full of **** when they say most of their workers are content,I known people who worked at Wal-mart.None of them don't have anything good to say about Wal-mart and dislike the fact Wal-mart most only hires part-time employees instead of full time employees. Many people only work there because there is nowhere else they can get employed at especially when there is high unemployment.
 
The terminology "Living Wage" propagated by collectivist drones is a misnomer. It assumes that 1. wealth is a zero sum game, and that money, and wealth is static. 2. It assumes that business is not, or should not be there to make money.

Both are fallacies.

The bluster at some WalMart's through out the country organized and mugged for the camera's by bused in UFCW union actors was just that, a show. The quicker that the drones realize they are being played by communist voices in Unions the better off we will be in this nation.
 
RLN said:
Oh no. I'm sorry but I'm not going down that road; I would like to stay on the one that you started to go down however. Please note that you did state:

Now seeing that Walmart would be poorer if those tax cuts and loopholes were removed, I stand by my earlier insertion. ;)
Click to expand...

shrug...you sent me down that road.

My road had nothing to say about taxes and loopholes...rather it's about whether Walmart is responsible for improving the economy or reduce the number of people taking advantage of government entitlements.
 
waas said:
All your opponents want is for wallmart to pay a simple living wage for the person earning it. We're not asking for it to support a family, just the person earning it. Stop blowing things out of proportion.

IMHO, it's only natural to expect that. When a person spends their days earning for a corporation, does that same corporation not have an obligation to them?
Click to expand...

You've just explained why companies are sending American blue collar jobs to China as fast as they can.
 
Dezaad said:
Actually, these jobs were paid higher before Walmart took over the world. That is simple fact. As to extending our arguments to mean that we think that Walmart jobs should yield a 'comfortable' existence, that is your doing, and is on you. Please quote where someone said they wanted Walmart work to yield a comfortable life.
Click to expand...

Show me how Walmart pays its employees less than Target, Kmart or any other of their true competition. Looking a job ads (Austin area) I see equally low pay offered at many auto parts retail stores, e.g. Advance Auto parts and Autozone, yet they require "experience" that Walmart does not.
 
jamesrage said:
I hope those workers are successful in getting a union, raising their wages and actually being able to work full time employment at those stores. Especially seeing how Wal-mart practically destroyed the mom and pop shops competitions that would have otherwise employed people with full time work at a decent wage. Wal-mart if full of **** when they say most of their workers are content,I known people who worked at Wal-mart.None of them don't have anything good to say about Wal-mart and dislike the fact Wal-mart most only hires part-time employees instead of full time employees. Many people only work there because there is nowhere else they can get employed at especially when there is high unemployment.
Click to expand...

At what point should Walmart have stopped growing, because they were a mom and pop store?
 
I'm not a Wal mart fan by any means. I actually try to avoid the place as much as possible, unless I'm in the mood to go look at some mutants. But, I don't see what Wal mart does that is any different than any other retailer, restaurant, etc., in regards to employee treatment?
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top Bottom