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Iranian ministry suggests openness to nuclear talks

ecofarm said:
1. The people of Iran need help, and they are asking for it.
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They are?
I know certain opposing political parties are, but the people as a whole or a majority i dont know about that.
I would love to see regime change in Iran but thats the job of Iranians not us.

2. Nukes in the hands of the world's terrorist nation is stupid and cannot be allowed.
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I agree its stupid but we dont even know if they want nukes.

3. Iran could develop like an Asian Tiger under some semblence of democracy and human rights.
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They could

4. Hamas.
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Hate them

5. Hez.
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Dont like em

6. Syria.
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Trick situation


We should cut off the head of the snake, and set people free.
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How so?
 
TheDemSocialist said:
Thats not a negotiation thats an ultimatum......
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Then we need an ultimatum. Iran should receive no leniency nor should they be able to negotiate into allowing themselves to having nuclear capabilities.
 
digsbe said:
Then we need an ultimatum. Iran should receive no leniency nor should they be able to negotiate into allowing themselves to having nuclear capabilities.
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Both Obama and Israel have given Iran an ultimatum.... I think you might of missed that..
 
We won't invade Iran's sand with boots so much as we will invade their airspace with lots and lots of BOOM BOOM generating flying thingamajigs....
 
It's Carter and North Korea all over again

The despots always play the left for the chumps that they are
 
TheDemSocialist said:
How so?
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Iran has social capital, Iraq did not (Saddam killed everything slightly threatening, like Stalin). Iran, with no UN sanctions, an IAEA cooperative 20% program (if that's even feasible regarding efficiency), international development investment, a semblence of democracy, human rights and civil rights... Could be a great nation. An Asian Tiger. A leader of modern development. If, instead, it pursues 'death to america/israel', a rogue nuke program, horrible oppression, disgusting hate, terrorism and religious absolutism then we all lose.

With nukes, nothing can oppose or intervene. We will be allowing another nK. We will be condemning millions of our brothers and sisters to darkness for generations and perhaps even the unleashing of a modern, if dirty, nuke. When Chernobyl melted, there was radiation in cow milk - in Brazil - a couple weeks later.

We cannot oppose tyranny that has nukes.

Shall we damn them? I say no. I say they are with me.

Me say war.
 
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International investment; building schools, infrastructure and tech. No sanctions. No money wasted on brutal oppression, Hamas, Hez and Assad. Development.

Let's do it.
 
digsbe said:
Then we need an ultimatum. Iran should receive no leniency nor should they be able to negotiate into allowing themselves to having nuclear capabilities.
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Giving them the room to negotiate with us is leniency. And they should have leniency without leniency there will be no negotiations. This will not be a zero sum game.
 
ecofarm said:
Iran has social capital, Iraq did not (Saddam killed everything slightly threatening, like Stalin). Iran, with no UN sanctions, an IAEA cooperative 20% program (if that's even feasible regarding efficiency), international development investment, a semblence of democracy, human rights and civil rights... Could be a great nation. An Asian Tiger. A leader of modern development. If, instead, it pursues 'death to america/israel', a rogue nuke program, horrible oppression, disgusting hate, terrorism and religious absolutism then we all lose.

With nukes, nothing can oppose or intervene. We will be allowing another nK. We will be condemning millions of our brothers and sisters to darkness for generations and perhaps even the unleashing of a modern, if dirty, nuke. When Chernobyl melted, there was radiation in cow milk - in Brazil - a couple weeks later.

We cannot oppose tyranny that has nukes.

Shall we damn them? I say no. I say they are with me.

Me say war.
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War? War is not the answer. War never makes anything better. Plus how do we know that Iranian people will greet us as liberators. It could turn out worse. Just look at Iraq right now..
 
TheDemSocialist said:
War never makes anything better.
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Nonsense. Iraq is FAR better off today than it was under 17 UNSCRs, sanctions, legal FGM, legal honor killings, women treated as property and a mass-raping genocidal dictator. Today, there's hope.
 
ecofarm said:
Nonsense. Iraq is FAR better off today than it was under 17 UNSCRs, sanctions, legal FGM, legal honor killings, women treated as property and a mass-raping genocidal dictator. Today, there's hope.
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:roll:
Iraq is a giant failed state.
Averaging a terrorist attack a day.
Terrorism running rampant.
Corruption.
 
TheDemSocialist said:
:roll:
Iraq is a giant failed state.
Averaging a terrorist attack a day.
Terrorism running rampant.
Corruption.
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Saddam had waged multiple wars with neighbors, committed genocide twice, sold 'food for oil' to the tune of 400k dead children, did not permit human rights and ruled as an absolute dictator.

17 UNSCRs
Sanctions
Legal FGM
Legal Honor killings
Legal acid in face
Legal rape


All gone. Plus voting, even women.
 
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ecofarm said:
Saddam had waged multiple wars with neighbors, committed genocide twice, did not permit human rights and ruled as an absolute dictator.

17 UNSCRs
Sanctions
Legal FGM
Legal Honor killings
Legal acid in face
Legal rape


All gone. Plus voting, even women.
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Iraq was however stable, and still made millions of iraqis alive still. If the Iraqi people wanted Saddam gone they could of done it themselves, the Arab Spring is proof of this.

I'm not saying Iraq was some sort of paradise im simply saying that Iraq is not doing better there is little hope, half destroyed country, terrorism running rampant, economy is failing, and its a giant failed state.
 
TheDemSocialist said:
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[FONT=Georgia, serif]Read more @:Iranian ministry suggests openness to talks - The Washington Post[/FONT]

[FONT=Georgia, serif]It seems many in the "hawkish" Iranian Intelligence agency are pushing for diplomacy over force in their talks about their nuclear program. This should defiantly be seen as a plus. [/FONT]
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Of coure they are willing to talk. It buys them time. They are only vulnerable to attack UNTIL they acquire nuclear capability. So the left hand talks while the right hand continues developing nukes. Isnt that obvious to everyone by now?
 
TheDemSocialist said:
Iraq was however stable, and still made millions of iraqis alive still. If the Iraqi people wanted Saddam gone they could of done it themselves, the Arab Spring is proof of this.
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You prefer brutal genocidal dictatorship without human rights to fledgling democracy. Great.

It's Saddam's fault that the country is bereft of social capital. He killed every free and critical thinker that dared say anything he didn't like. That's why Iraq is a failed state today; not because dictatorship is better than fledgling democracy but because Saddam killed all the social capital. It will take a generation or two (barring immigration) for that social capital to be at a reasonable level.

As a democrat, one would think you'd be familiar with the "prior administration" excuse.
 
Fletch said:
Of coure they are willing to talk. It buys them time. They are only vulnerable to attack UNTIL they acquire nuclear capability. So the left hand talks while the right hand continues developing nukes. Isnt that obvious to everyone by now?
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WE DONT EVEN KNOW IF THEY WANT NUCLEAR BOMBS! OUR OWN INTELLIGENCE AND ISRAELI INTELLIGENCE HAVE ADMITTED THIS!!!!

And why would the just suddenly attack even if they got a bomb?
 
TheDemSocialist said:
WE DONT EVEN KNOW IF THEY WANT NUCLEAR BOMBS! OUR OWN INTELLIGENCE AND ISRAELI INTELLIGENCE HAVE ADMITTED THIS!!!!

And why would the just suddenly attack even if they got a bomb?
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Dont be naive. And I wasnt referring to them attacking but them being attacked prior to getting the bomb. No one is going to bomb them if they have the ability to respond with nukes.
 
ecofarm said:
You prefer brutal genocidal dictatorship without human rights to fledgling democracy. Great.
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I agree with people in their own country deciding whats best for them.
I agree that we should not be the policemen of the world.
I agree that we should not invade a country on false pretenses.
I agree with self determination.

Also you act like the current Iraq's human rights record is soo good right now.. :roll: News flash its not
Iraq Human Rights | Amnesty International USA
World Report 2012: Iraq | Human Rights Watch
United Nations News Centre - UN report: human rights situation in Iraq remains fragile


It's Saddam's fault that the country is bereft of social capital. He killed every free and critical thinker that dared say anything he didn't like. That's why Iraq is a failed state today; not because dictatorship is better than fledgling democracy but because Saddam killed all the social capital. It will take a generation or two (barring immigration) for that social capital to be at a reasonable level.
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Iraq's economy is fragile because infrastructure is still recovering, because of extremly corrupt government.


As a democrat, one would think you'd be familiar with the "prior administration" excuse.
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Im a "democrat" :lamo Good one..
 
Fletch said:
Dont be naive.
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Its not naive:
"The White House, the Pentagon, U.S. intelligence, and reportedly even Israeli intelligence and leaders of the Israeli military, as well as the International Atomic Energy Agency (IAEA) all have reached the same conclusions about Iran's nuclear program:

1) Iran does not have a nuclear weapon-it only has a civilian nuclear program at this point
2) Iran is not building a nuclear weapon
3) Iran has not made the decision of whether or not to build a nuclear weapon in the future"

FCNL: U.S. & Israeli Officials: Iran is NOT Building Nuclear Weapons
U.S. does not believe Iran is trying to build nuclear bomb - Los Angeles Times
BBC News - Iran undecided on nuclear bomb - Israel military chief
U.S. Intelligence Agencies Agree: No Evidence of Iranian Nuclear Weapons Program :
Leon Panetta admits Iran is not developing a nuclear weapon | End the Lie – Independent News

And I wasnt referring to them attacking but them being attacked prior to getting the bomb. No one is going to bomb them if they have the ability to respond with nukes.
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Ok thanks for the clarification.
 
ecofarm said:
Obama supporter or Romney opposer?
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Voted for Obama because i consider him the lesser of two evils.
Voting for someone does not make you their party.

Anyway, hope you got the joke.
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What joke?

In the case of Iraq's development, it's true.
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Yup thats the only reason. :roll:
 
ecofarm said:
Blaming Bush for today's economy being like blaming Saddam for today's Iraq.
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I got that.. But i dont see how that plays into this argument...
We destroyed their economy. We bombed the **** out of their economy. Their government is filled with corruption. The door is open to terrorist. Averaging a terrorist attack per day. I say that yes, part of the reason is Saddam but it goes way beyond that as well.
 
TheDemSocialist said:
I got that.. But i dont see how that plays into this argument...
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Saddam killed everyone with half a brain and an ounce of conscience. What is there to not understand regarding this being a post-Saddam development difficulty.

Their government is filled with corruption.
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Saddam killed 200k Kurds in a couple years with chemical weapons wiping out entire towns, women and children dead in the streets by the thousands. His own citizens. You think that's not corrupt?
 
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