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Twinkies maker Hostess going out of business

There is no maybe because nobody ever has their own motivations or agenda, or just their own POV for that matter, left unsaid behind a public statement they release?

:rofl

Are you for real?

Exactly. Same for the bakers, they are not personally obligated to keep Hostess afloat. Yes, even if the Teamsters want them to. They may have self-interest in doing so but they do get to decide on the existence and parameters of that self-interest.

And they chose suicide. Fine for them, I guess, if that's their choice; they can live with it. The only problem is the other 3/4 of the company which also lost their jobs because of that choice.
 
Are you for real?
I could ask you the same if you think every press release includes a full and accurate listing of the authors’ goals and opinions, or that they aren’t conceived and written from the authors general view point. :cool:
And they chose suicide.
As a small business owner/operator I have chosen ’suicide’ before when someone squeezed too hard. It can be stressful, no doubt, but it worked out. Hostess was in Chapter 11, and was in the process of being sold. There was every reason to suspect that this wasn’t going to be the last demand to come down the pike, that sizable layoffs weren’t around the corner anyway if some cutthroat VC picked up the company.

Very similar in my case on at least one occasion. Their business had some serious structural problems. In fact it wasn’t the first time they’d squeezed. I had every expectation they were going to be coming back to me again, asking for retroactive price drop. I decided my time was worth more than that, even if I didn’t have replacement work lined up at that point.

Best to not take it too personally. On either side. Sometimes business’ feasibility just sort of evaporates, too. Maybe somebody should have seen it coming and adapted, if that was realistically possible. *shrug* But **** happens.

I have also as an employee walked off a job site because I was being told to do positively stupid, self-endangering stuff for truly crap pay. Did not have a job to go to. No job can indeed be better than crap job.
 
I could ask you the same if you think every press release includes a full and accurate listing of the authors’ goals and opinions, or that they aren’t conceived and written from the authors general view point. :cool:

As a small business owner/operator I have chosen ’suicide’ before when someone squeezed too hard. It can be stressful, no doubt, but it worked out. Hostess was in Chapter 11, and was in the process of being sold. There was every reason to suspect that this wasn’t going to be the last demand to come down the pike, that sizable layoffs weren’t around the corner anyway if some cutthroat VC picked up the company.

Very similar in my case on at least one occasion. Their business had some serious structural problems. In fact it wasn’t the first time they’d squeezed. I had every expectation they were going to be coming back to me again, asking for retroactive price drop. I decided my time was worth more than that, even if I didn’t have replacement work lined up at that point.

Best to not take it too personally. On either side. Sometimes business’ feasibility just sort of evaporates, too. Maybe somebody should have seen it coming and adapted, if that was realistically possible. *shrug* But **** happens.

I have also as an employee walked off a job site because I was being told to do positively stupid, self-endangering stuff for truly crap pay. Did not have a job to go to. No job can indeed be better than crap job.

What does this prattle have to do with anything I said (especially the part about taking things "personally")?

This is why I ask if you're for real.
 
And for some people, that can mean the difference between making your rent or not. Or being able to afford an expensive medical procedure for your child. The difference in pay looks pretty small when you describe it as the difference between the numbers 18 and 20. But it can mean a whole lot more than that to those bakers.

Frankly, I think we'll be better off without Twinkies. Though I'll have to wonder what we'll eat when the zombie apocalypse comes. Twinkies were a staple of the 28 Days Later diet.

Logically, however, I must presume that it's much more difficult to pay that rent with $0/hr than with $18/hr. Now 18,500 people are jobless, a company that has been in business for over 80 years has gone belly-up, and I can't help but wonder if the union is proud of itself. :shrug:

Besides which, I adore Twinkies and Hostess Chocolate Cupcakes. :(
 
I liked Twinkies, and love Ding Dongs. Good thing they are designed to survive nuclear war. I am going out and stocking up. Soon they will be selling ding dongs on Ebay for ten bucks or more a pop. I intend to get in on the ground floor for that action.

Best post of this thread!
 
Logically, however, I must presume that it's much more difficult to pay that rent with $0/hr than with $18/hr. Now 18,500 people are jobless, a company that has been in business for over 80 years has gone belly-up, and I can't help but wonder if the union is proud of itself. :shrug:

Besides which, I adore Twinkies and Hostess Chocolate Cupcakes. :(

I am stocking up on the remaining supplies. I will be selling them on Ebay for an obsinely confiscatory amount of money. :)
 
It seems to me that you're just typing things at random. Have fun with that.
I was recommending some Ding Dongs. :) So in the future you might not be so confused about why what you term ’suicide’ can be an entirely logical, appropriate response to someone telling you they want the same thing for less money.

That is where the sly dog is, down the cherry river!
 
So, if Hostess goes the way of the dinosaur can we stop honoring the Twinkie Defense?
 
Or. An example of management screwing up so badly that the company could not afford to pay wages that people will accept rather than no job.

I might accept that, if not for the fact that the Teamsters Union is also castigating the Bakers Union over the coals for their strike. And do not forget, this was all started when a Bankruptcy Judge ordered contract concessions as a way to try and save the company.

The Bakery, Confectionery, Tobacco Workers and Grain Millers International Union went on strike Nov. 9 after a bankruptcy judge in White Plains, New York, imposed contract concessions opposed by 92 percent of the union’s members. The union represents about 5,000 Hostess workers.

Officials of the International Brotherhood of Teamsters, representing about 6,700 Hostess employees, were “incredibly disappointed” and “angry” about the shutdown, Rayburn said. The Teamsters union yesterday urged the bakers’ union to let members decide by secret ballot whether to continue the walkout.

Drivers represented by the Teamsters earlier ratified a new contract with 8 percent in wage concessions and 17 percent in benefit reductions. Teamsters members “understood what was at stake and voted to protect all jobs at Hostess,” the union said in today’s statement.

Rayburn, who previously helped to guide companies including Syntax-Brillian Corp., Indianapolis Downs LLC and Sunterra Corp. through bankruptcy, said yesterday that Hostess lacked the financial strength and manpower to stay open during a strike.

“When you get to a certain point, customers are going to say, ‘Hey, you know, I’ve been as supportive as I can be but I can’t be out of stock,’” Rayburn said in today’s Bloomberg Television interview.
http://www.businessweek.com/news/2012-11-16/twinkie-maker-hostess-to-shut-down-after-strike

Yes, the company was in financial trouble, this is nothing new. But seriously, when a company is on the vergy of bankruptcy, is it really logical to go on strike? That is like setting your house on fire because it is being robbed.

So yea, I guess all of those Bakers are happy now. Now they can all go out and find higher paid job.
 
I don't think the bakers' union is going to get much sympathy from anyone who doesn't reflexively think unions are never wrong, and management always is.
 
Logically, however, I must presume that it's much more difficult to pay that rent with $0/hr than with $18/hr. Now 18,500 people are jobless, a company that has been in business for over 80 years has gone belly-up, and I can't help but wonder if the union is proud of itself. :shrug:

Besides which, I adore Twinkies and Hostess Chocolate Cupcakes. :(

So people should just accept when they are forced into a bad situation and not seek to change it? That's not very American. We should meekly accept the lot given to us? I thought striving and taking risks is something we reward in this country.
 
And the sad part of this I think is that apparently some of these people knew exactly what their strike would do, but did not care.

story-hostess-brands-strikegood-166110.jpg

Union members with Bakery, Confectionery, Tobacco Workers and Grain Millers International picket across the street from the Hostess owned Dolly Madison bakery Wednesday in Emporia, Kan. Hostess, based in Irving, Texas, has warned that the strike by about 30 percent of its workforce could lead to bakery closures. (AP Photo/Emporia Gazette,Matthew Fowler )

Hostess-Strike.jpg

Striking worker and Chief Steward Kravis Pfeiffer from the Bakery, Confectionery, Tobacco Workers and Grain Millers International Union, representing the Hostess workers from the Hostess Production Bakery, 1511 West Lincoln Avenue in Peoria, Ill., holds signs Tuesday, Nov. 13, 2012. Pfeiffer who has been camping out overnight in a tent in the back of his truck said that they don't want to give up what the older generation of workers fought for. (AP Photo/Journal Star, Fred Zwicky)

Hostess threatens to liquidate if striking workers don't return

TO me this is just disgusting. And even the Teamsters thinks so, that should say something.
 
So people should just accept when they are forced into a bad situation and not seek to change it? That's not very American. We should meekly accept the lot given to us? I thought striving and taking risks is something we reward in this country.

There's a difference between trying to change something and committing suicide in pursuit of futility. They chose the latter.
 
So people should just accept when they are forced into a bad situation and not seek to change it? That's not very American. We should meekly accept the lot given to us? I thought striving and taking risks is something we reward in this country.

Have you ever heard the saying "Cutting off the nose to spite the face"?
 
So people should just accept when they are forced into a bad situation and not seek to change it? That's not very American. We should meekly accept the lot given to us? I thought striving and taking risks is something we reward in this country.

They could have always quit. Then they'd be in the same place they are now. The difference is they wouldn't have dragged everyone else down with them.

BTW, there are ways to better your situation beyond strangling the business you work for.
 
They could have always quit. Then they'd be in the same place they are now. The difference is they wouldn't have dragged everyone else down with them.

Yeah, from the post above, it appears at least some were intentionally trying to kill the company. Way to take everyone down with you if you don't get what you want.
 
I might accept that, if not for the fact that the Teamsters Union is also castigating the Bakers Union over the coals for their strike.
No need to pretend, you would never accept it. ;) I say that because one does not exclude the other, does not have much to do with the other really.
And do not forget, this was all started when a Bankruptcy Judge ordered contract concessions as a way to try and save the company.
It wasn’t that the bakers offered no concessions. The gap just wasn’t closed.
 
It's gonna get worse.
 
No need to pretend, you would never accept it. ;) I say that because one does not exclude the other, does not have much to do with the other really.

It wasn’t that the bakers offered no concessions. The gap just wasn’t closed.

I honestly believe that they never negotiated in good faith. They smelled blood on the water, and thought they could milk the company for every cent they could. However, the underestimated how bad the financial trouble was.

The Teamsters recognized it, and they put the vote to accept the contract to their members in a secret ballot. And the members accepted it.

The Bakers union however made it a public vote (something I always dissagreed with), and simply asked for authorization to strike. I think that they never negotiated in good faith, and it seems that the Teamsters agree with me.
 
I guess that working at Hostess is so bad that they'd rather have the place go under.

I am sure that lots of peeps have worked at places that were so bad, that they didn't care if they went under or not.

The money, or lack of it, just wasn't worth it.
 
Back in 2011 after the company had hired already hired bankruptcy lawyers, they decided to engage in the fiscally responsible plan to triple the then CEO's pay. That kind of stunt is good reason to question if the negotiations were in good faith.
 
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