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Hostess threatens to lay off 18,000 employees unless strike ends[W:521]

greedy/incompetent CEOs + greedy/corrupt union bosses + workers with a GED expecting to make $25/hr ( for doing a job a chimpanzee with a screwdriver could do) = companies going tits up
 
It's the same company that bought out Mrs. Baird's bread in Fort Worth, which had been a strong local business, a few years ago. Apparently, it's a pretty substantial business.

You are talking about BIMBO bakers and they have bought out so many American companies that they are now America's largest bread maker. They own Arnold too.
 
Looks like the fat lady hasn't quite sung on this one. The bankruptcy judge just ordered management and the union to go to mediation for one lest effort to avoid liquidation.
 
Hostess threatens to lay off 18,000 employees unless strike ends

Business majors are inferior in intelligence. Glorifying such no-talent brown-noses with their generic degrees has filled them with the megalomania in which any simple-minded tactic is justified as long as it makes more money than doing it the honest way, which these low-IQ scum are incapable of. Putting inferior people in superior positions has forced them to get by the only way such ambitious imbeciles can. People as stupid as they aredo have to outsource to sweatshops; it's not just greed, it's incompetence. They are anti-American because they didn't get their jobs the old American Way, starting from the bottom and working their way up. Instead, they start out in management after spending four years in college learning nothing relevant to their job, and especially nothing that would make them more informed than someone who had worked at the company those four years. Rodney Dangerfield in Back to School was right on the money about how real businessmen doing it the American Way made money.

That's certainly a pretty big chip you are carrying around.
 
Looks like the fat lady hasn't quite sung on this one. The bankruptcy judge just ordered management and the union to go to mediation for one lest effort to avoid liquidation.

Your opinion; what's the take-away if the union now capitulates?
 
AS FACTS COME OUT- THIS IS THE REAL STORY


The past CEO making $2 million equaled a nickel an hour per employee, and the next CEOs worked for $1.00.

However, the $2 per hour the Baker's Union employees (less than 1/3rd the total of employees) were striking for works out to $78,000,000.00. For a company already $680 million in debt.

The Baker's Union president said "No! Hell No! AND I WON'T ALLOW MY UNION MEMBERS TO VOTE ON IT EITHER! This is MY personal decision to make for them!"

The Baker's union boss did NOT bring it to a vote, claiming the employees already voted on a previous offer to strike, so refused to allow the 5,000 Baker's Union members to vote - costing all 18,000 employees their jobs - this condemned by the Teamsters and the total 13,000 other employees. Less than 1/3rd of the employees shut the company down - and that 1/3rd didn't even get to vote either. This was decided singularly the Union president of a union that represented less than 1/3rd of the employees.

Is it just possible the Baker's union feared that when the employees became major stockholders - and now has their own personal interests in company profits - they would have told the Baker's Union "go to hell!" and dumped that union? Maybe the Baker's union quarter million dollar boss WANT Hostess destroyed to prevent a trend starting that employees start also becoming owners/stockholders concerned more about company profits rather than union dues - for which the Baker's union boss goes to Washington DC to rub shoulders with the politicians and power brokers as one for the rich fat cats himself. I bet the union president's drinking buddies aren't working folk.

Or maybe the Baker's Union president feared his 5,000 union members would dump his union and join the Teamsters real union instead? That may have been the only way the Baker's Union president could stop his members en mass fleeing his union to instead be Teamsters.



This was NOT a strike voted for - ever - by over 2/3rds of employees (13,000 of the 18,000 are not in Baker's union.) The Teamsters voted to accept it the contract - and 25% company ownership for their members in that package. Even the 5000 Baker's Union members were not allowed to vote on the final contract offer by their f/cked up Baker's Union president. That decision was made singularly by one man - the President of the Bakers Union - representing (meaning total power over them) less than 1/3d of the employees - who also didn't get to vote on it.

Hell, I know I'd rather wear a "TEAMSTERS" leather jacket than one that said "Bakers and Confectionary Makers." With Teamsters it should be black or brown. For Bakers and candy makers it should be white or pink. A pink leather jacket reading "Candy Maker" wouldn't match my personality. :lol: A worn black leather jacket with "TEAMSTER" in gold wings across the back would.

Since the decision of the Teamster MEMBERS was opposite the Baker's union's president's personal decision, for that reason alone I agree with the Teamsters. They are a known, legitimate and sometimes kick-ass union.
 
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I guess right... I figured the President of the Baker's and Candymaker's Union would be a fat old white guy

FH_Portrait1.jpg
 
Here was the part of the post from Zalatix that I responded to



Zalatix has just recently become a member here. The poster clearly expresses wonder and amazement that people in this thread still continue to push an anti-union message despite the information coming out that undercuts their position. What I did was to inform the poster of an existing and very real dynamic that exists here.

You call this my own personal attack. It was not. I did not mention a single person by name or identify and specific persons. I dealt with the message rather than the messenger. Perhaps you saw this as a personal attack because you yourself recognized you as being part of what I described? if so, that is on you and not me.

What you in fact did, and are now running away from, is launching a broad stereotyping of Union opposition in an attempt to assert something you can then plausibly deny by adding the word "some". We call that a big ole strawman. If you want to call someone out with your little tirades, be specific about WHO you mean or keep your mouth shut about disparaging assertions.

Secondly

3. Baiting/Flaming/Trolling - To bait someone in a general sense is to make a comment with a purposeful intent to coerce some form of response from the individual. In some cases this device can be a useful tool of debate, eliciting responses to highlight a point or reveal an underlying truth concerning someone’s argument. However, in other cases the intent of the bait is less focused on debating. “Flamebaiting” is making statements intended to cause an angry or emotional response/flame from the person. Another form of baiting is known as “derailing” or “thread-jacking”. This is deliberate act of making statements with an aim of diverting the topic of a thread significantly from its main focus. These negative forms of baiting constitute a rules violation that can potentially lead to a suspension of posting privileges.

"Originally, flame meant to carry forth in a passionate manner in the spirit of honorable debate. Flames most often involved the use of flowery language and flaming well was an art form. More recently flame has come to refer to "any kind of derogatory comment no matter how witless or crude."[google] In a forum with sensitive topics such as this, derogatory flaming is bound to happen. Common sense will prevail, yet this is not an invitation to flame. e.g. "You stupid *****ing moron," is completely unacceptable and could lead to a suspension of posting privileges.

Trolling is a diversionary tactic of those who “deliberately exploit tendencies of human nature or of an online community to upset people” or those “who post inflammatory, extraneous, or off-topic messages” to disrupt normal on-topic discussions. [Wikipedia]. Ignorance, bias, and genuine dissent are not trolling, though at times they may appear similar due to the disingenuous nature of some trolls. Trolling is not allowed and can potentially lead to the suspension of posting privileges.

4. Don't Be A Jerk (DBAJ) - This simply means what it sounds like.

Next time you call me out publicly for a personal attack, you better hit the triangle or I will---Im tired of your baiting/trolling/DBAJ behavior. I will not be accused of breaking the rules by you with impunity over and over, take it to a mod or get over it. This is the last time Ill deal with your terrible behavior and narrow excuses to try to wiggle out of the consequences.
 
Business majors are inferior in intelligence. Glorifying such no-talent brown-noses with their generic degrees has filled them with the megalomania in which any simple-minded tactic is justified as long as it makes more money than doing it the honest way, which these low-IQ scum are incapable of. Putting inferior people in superior positions has forced them to get by the only way such ambitious imbeciles can. People as stupid as they aredo have to outsource to sweatshops; it's not just greed, it's incompetence. They are anti-American because they didn't get their jobs the old American Way, starting from the bottom and working their way up. Instead, they start out in management after spending four years in college learning nothing relevant to their job, and especially nothing that would make them more informed than someone who had worked at the company those four years. Rodney Dangerfield in Back to School was right on the money about how real businessmen doing it the American Way made money.

Substitute Business Major for Liberal Arts/English/Music/Art major and does it have the same semantic content? Oh look it does, pretty much. What are doing with this post? Working out some anger and envy issues or what?
 
I just read 11/19 @ 4:37 p.m. that Judge Drain ordered mediation between Hostess and the Baker's Union. Apparently the fat lady is in the wings waiting to sing, or not.
Ordered?


...
During the hearing, U.S. Bankruptcy Judge Robert Drain urged the parties to come to an agreement through mediation rather than through a public, and costly, hearing. The court called a short recess while the lawyer for the baker's union phoned his client to see if the union would agree to a mediation process tomorrow.
...
Twinkie's last stand: It's up to a mediator - Life Inc.




Apparently a Mexican bread company may buy twinkies

So they may now become a foreign import

lol
It's the same company that bought out Mrs. Baird's bread in Fort Worth, which had been a strong local business, a few years ago. Apparently, it's a pretty substantial business.
I read that it was something the attempted previously unless they are the same as the following which I doubt.


Hurst Capital, LLLP Announces Intent to Acquire Assets of Hostess Brands Inc.

...

Hurst Capital, LLLP today filed a letter of intent to acquire the assets of Hostess Brands Inc. with the United States Bankruptcy Court in the Southern District of New York. Hostess Brands, the bankrupt baker of iconic consumer brands including Twinkies, Ding Dongs, Ho Hos and Wonder bread, had been in business for 82 years and filed a motion on November 16, 2012 seeking permission to close its business and sell its assets.

Hurst Capital’s letter of intent details their multimillion dollar offer to acquire all the assets of Hostess Brands, including property, cash, cash equivalents, intellectual property, brands, websites, URL’s, furniture, fixtures, equipment, signage, supplies, small wares, contracts, licenses, permits, computer software and hardware, telephone numbers, leases, franchise agreements and vehicles.
...
Hurst Capital, LLLP Announces Intent to Acquire Assets of Hostess Brands Inc. - KWES NewsWest 9 / Midland, Odessa, Big Spring, TX: newswest9.com |




This right here are why unions are necessary. This is the same mentality company owners had before unions and still hold today. Is a ****ty paying job better than no job at all? Well depends. If I had 3 extra mouths to feed, then the options are somewhat like having the option of getting your head cut off by a lawnmower or a guillotine.
Just look at the hyperbole!

No it isn't why Unions are necessary.
$18.00 an hour may not be the "big bucks", but it is not ****ty pay, especially for making snack cakes.
Which is exactly why your post is hyperbolic.




They had a huge facility in Fort Worth as well- right off I-30 after passing through the mixmaster- I distinctly remember the smell. :lol:
The one in Dallas was at Central and Mockingbird. Use to go to the factory store as a kid with my mom. Took tours of the factory as a grade school kid.

Wasn't that smell GREAT!
:thumbs:
You can obtain pretty much the same smell by baking your own bread.
 
What you in fact did, and are now running away from, is launching a broad stereotyping of Union opposition in an attempt to assert something you can then plausibly deny by adding the word "some". We call that a big ole strawman. If you want to call someone out with your little tirades, be specific about WHO you mean or keep your mouth shut about disparaging assertions.

Secondly



Next time you call me out publicly for a personal attack, you better hit the triangle or I will---Im tired of your baiting/trolling/DBAJ behavior. I will not be accused of breaking the rules by you with impunity over and over, take it to a mod or get over it. This is the last time Ill deal with your terrible behavior and narrow excuses to try to wiggle out of the consequences.

First, I will post anything I want to post about keeping in the rules of this board. That is what I have done and that is what I will continue to do.

Second, I have not baited you in any way shape or form. What I have done is shined the spotlight upon you engaged in repeated personal attacks upon me. It is not my power to decide if those rise to the level of something that merits and infraction. I simply make the observation of what you present here.

Third, your own words in that post clearly show that I never violated any rule and that is what upsets you. You express anger that I was overly broad. You express frustration that I did not name individuals. You claim that this was the use of the strawman fallacy. Those were your criticisms of my post and NONE of those are any rule violations. NONE OF THEM.

Fourth, you have not decided to actually engage in debate concerning the post I made that you find so objectionable. Nothing I said in it has been challenged with any evidence showing any of it was not true. Why are you spending so much time attacking me and ignoring the actual substance of the debate issue?

What seems to have angered you is my objection to being attacked for my post and defending myself here. You cannot find any violations in my post so you repeatedly keep posting and keep attacking me attempting to find fault where there was none.


your #446


Your sad little tirade is quite typical of you, so full of fury and so lacking in substance. Its borderline baiting with the stereotyping and the trained animal reference. Your mistake is thinking you are being rational, you are rationalizing your behavior and can't find the difference.

Those remarks are clearly personal attacks.

your #457

Dont launch broadside personal attacks against union critics then whine when you are called irrational.

This passive agressive crap you keep playing is really getting old.

I never made a personal attack in the first place. Your attempt to falsely characterize as such and then use it as a springboard to attack me personally was exposed.

and you recognized this in #467 and then doubled down on it with more attacks

Dont post highly irrational diatribes stereotyping those politically opposite you and I wont call your posts irrational, hate filled diatribes. You want to debate, fine, debate. Launching stereotype broadsides across a bunch of people then pissing and moaning when you get called on it is not a personal attack---its calling you out for ****ty, whiny, hypocritical behavior.

Someone needs to start calling you out for this passive agressive whinefest you keep playing.

Before you cry your little head off about a personal attack, go back and examine everything I said--I am attacking your behavior and posting habits. YOU can end the criticism by being a better poster---stop doing stupid **** and Ill stop calling you out for it.

For some reason you continue to do the very things you chastise me about. You accuse me of violating the rules here but somehow someway you feel that you are empowered to be the self appointed vigilante to keep 'calling me out' as you put it. You keep telling me to hit the triangle and file a report if I believe the rules are violated but your tactic has been the opposite. Your tactic is to publicly wage a war against me and keep attacking me in post after post but pretend that you are NOT doing just that.

You insist that you are not making this personal or are not attacking me personally but a review of just these posts show the opposite.
 
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First, I will post anything I want to post about keeping in the rules of this board. That is what I have done and that is what I will continue to do.

Second, I have not baited you in any way shape or form. What I have done is shined the spotlight upon you engaged in repeated personal attacks upon me. It is not my power to decide if those rise to the level of something that merits and infraction. I simply make the observation of what you present here.

Third, your own words in that post clearly show that I never violated any rule and that is what upsets you. You express anger that I was overly broad. You express frustration that I did not name individuals. You claim that this was the use of the strawman fallacy. Those were your criticisms of my post and NONE of those are any rule violations. NONE OF THEM.

Fourth, you have not decided to actually engage in debate concerning the post I made that you find so objectionable. Nothing I said in it has been challenged with any evidence showing any of it was not true. Why are you spending so much time attacking me and ignoring the actual substance of the debate issue?

What seems to have angered you is my objection to being attacked for my post and defending myself here. You cannot find any violations in my post so you repeatedly keep posting and keep attacking me attempting to find fault where there was none.


your #446




Those remarks are clearly personal attacks.

your #457



I never made a personal attack in the first place. Your attempt to falsely characterize as such and then use it as a springboard to attack me personally was exposed.

and you recognized this in #467 and then doubled down on it with more attacks



For some reason you continue to do the very things you chastise me about. You accuse me of violating the rules here but somehow someway you feel that you are empowered to be the self appointed vigilante to keep 'calling me out' as you put it. You keep telling me to hit the triangle and file a report if I believe the rules are violated but your tactic has been the opposite. Your tactic is to publicly wage a war against me and keep attacking me in post after post but pretend that you are NOT doing just that.

You insist that you are not making this personal or are not attacking me personally but a review of just these posts show the opposite.

Your post has been reported. I dont bluff Hay. I expect they may infract both of us, but thats ok, I want to know concretely where I stand on both your behavior and my posts.


As far as the thread goes, looks like they are under a mediation to try to get a resolution that keeps the company whole. Cross your fingers, being out of a job at this time of year is rough for anyone.
 
Freihofer is buying Hostess. Or at least, they are trying to.

Nature abhors a vacuum.
 
Your post has been reported. I dont bluff Hay. I expect they may infract both of us, but thats ok, I want to know concretely where I stand on both your behavior and my posts.


As far as the thread goes, looks like they are under a mediation to try to get a resolution that keeps the company whole. Cross your fingers, being out of a job at this time of year is rough for anyone.

Well if you get a detailed explanation as to where you stand on your posts and your behavior please let me know about it.

The latest developments in this story simply show that some people badly jumped the gun in a hasty attempt to make the usual knee jerk ideologically based responses.
 
Looks like the fat lady hasn't quite sung on this one. The bankruptcy judge just ordered management and the union to go to mediation for one lest effort to avoid liquidation.

And what do you think will happen? The union gets more money, that Hostess does not have?
 
So, if I understand you correctly, you're saying that cart-pushers do create jobs . . . in 15 or 20 years. ;)
People who were cart pushers 15 or 20 years ago would be in charge now, if we had stuck to the American Way. The epitaph on the tombstone of our economy will be "To Get a Good Job, Get a Good Education." Among the many things wrong with that slogan, notice that it doesn't say, "To Do a Good Job..."
 
And what do you think will happen? The union gets more money, that Hostess does not have?

One thing that won't happen is that the union will get money. OTOH, the employees may get some kind of additional concession, or perhaps they will reconsider original offer, or perhaps nothing will come of it and the company will be sold off in chunks. We shall see.
 
Moderator's Warning:
This is a friendly reminder to please stay on topic. Debating about what is and is not a personal attack is not debating the OP. If a post breaks the rules, report it. Otherwise, let's all discuss the topic at hand. Thanks.
 
LATEST UPDATE: 8:30 pm Central Time:

WHITE PLAINS, N.Y. — Hostess Brands Inc., the bankrupt maker of Twinkies and Wonder Bread, said Tuesday that it failed to reach a deal in mediation with the Bakery, Confectionary, Tobacco and Grain Millers Union.

The company said it will have no further comment until a hearing scheduled for Wednesday before the U.S. Bankruptcy Court for the Southern District of New York.

A representative of the Bakery, Confectionery, Tobacco Workers and Grain Millers International Union did not immediately respond for comment.

At this link, you'll see that the company successfully negotiated with ten unions within Hostess Brands. The Bakers' Union was the eleventh. No deal. Mediation fails in negotiations between Hostess and union workers — Business — Bangor Daily News — BDN Maine

*Shrug*
 
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