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Hostess threatens to lay off 18,000 employees unless strike ends[W:521]

iguanaman said:
The 8% pay cut that was offered by Silver Point Capital was too much for the membership to stomach.
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Yeah? Well their option appears to have been unemployment, which I understand to be about a 100% pay cut.

Well, actually, what % of their pay will they keep in the unemployment benefits that we will now be paying them for two years?

They voted overwhelmingly against it. Unions are people, please at least try to remember that.
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Oh I do. You just seem to think that when groups of "people" make a decision, that they are necessarily making a wise or a good one. This has not been my experience with groups of "people."

There may be a glitch in Silver point's plan though. A bankruptcy judge will need to approve any liquidation. I hope those books are gone over with a fine tooth comb.

Meanwhile peruse their website, They are a " registered investment adviser focused on credit and special situations investments."

https://www.silverpointcapital.com/
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Good for them. I am sorry that the Bakers Union was more stubborn than the Teamsters, and got all the Teamsters fired, as well as losing their investment. I wish them greater success in the future, and they will probably avoid trying to help unionized firms because of this.


Unions have become their own worst enemy in this country. When you kill off the host, you die too.
 
LaMidRighter said:
That's one I don't get, Texas is a right to work state iirc. The only thing I can figure is that they wanted to shorten distribution routes and traded that off against labor costs. However liquidation and the desired union contract could change that for any company that buys the brand.
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Hostess will just sell the brand name and their "secret mixes" to go along with the name and the company that buys the brand will have the authority to do whatever they want with what they purchased.

Remember that the brand name is part of the liquidation process.

To make a weird analogy - An individual who buys a car from another individual doesn't have to take that car to the same mechanic. New owner, new mechanic.
 
winston53660 said:
Neither of those articles list a dozen unions. You made the claim now what are they?

BTW from the CNBC article:

Corporate missteps include "years of underinvestment in products, facilities and equipment, long-term neglect of once-dominant brands and hollowing-out of a distribution system that once provided a competitive advantage," wrote Henry Wilson, a financial executive who analyzed Hostess for a provisional labor management committee created by the company and the Teamsters union.

Wilson's conclusions, filed with the bankruptcy court in March, also cited failure to develop newer, higher-growth products, an overly compliant corporate board and a "grossly overleveraged" debt structure with Wall Street lenders that was imposed during the company's prior bankruptcy.
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I hope you feel better soon, Winston. There's something definitely wrong with you.
 
winston53660 said:
Because I don't blame the unions for Hostess' downfall?
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Is THAT what this is all about?? (What are you doing up?)

If you read my earlier posts, you would see that I blamed piss-poor company management and a complete loss of trust for part of this strike and the position Hostess finds itself in today. What are employees supposed to think when the company collects pension contributions from the employees and never puts that money into their pension fund?? (It is my understanding that the bankruptcy judge ruled that money doesn't have to be paid back either.) What should they think when they've been paying $10/week out of their checks to the company to help them out, and STILL the company goes into bankruptcy??

But that's neither here nor there. I think the union made a poor decision and foisted that on the employees. What sense does it make to just walk away without a job around the holidays when one could simply accept the contract (the alternative being NO JOB) and then find a NEW and BETTER job at their leisure after the first of the year? It makes absolutely no business sense at all.

If today's negotiations weren't productive (which it doesn't sound like they were), these people are on the street. The odds of many of them getting new jobs until January are slim to none, in my opinion. Companies just aren't hiring this time of year for anything other than part-time holiday stuff.
 
I don't know how, I don't know why, but somehow, this is all Obama's fault.
 
MaggieD said:
Hey, Winston. I did support it. That's a credible link. If you want to parse it and infer that it means something other than what it says? That's on you, buddy.

Just admit you didn't read the article all the way to the end and be done with it. Or. Prove that link wrong.
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The number that matters is of the 18000 employees, 5000 are in the Baker's Union. That means 13,000 aren't. And we know the Teamsters took the deal.
 
Mr.Nick said:
Hostess will just sell the brand name and their "secret mixes" to go along with the name and the company that buys the brand will have the authority to do whatever they want with what they purchased.

Remember that the brand name is part of the liquidation process.

To make a weird analogy - An individual who buys a car from another individual doesn't have to take that car to the same mechanic. New owner, new mechanic.
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Yep, restructuring voids all liabilities. Hopefully the new company can get into a position of profitability, but it's not stopping people from whining about the "poor union workers" who wouldn't even budge to save their jobs. I'm not exactly shedding tears over this.
 
MaggieD said:
Is THAT what this is all about?? (What are you doing up?)

If you read my earlier posts, you would see that I blamed piss-poor company management and a complete loss of trust for part of this strike and the position Hostess finds itself in today. What are employees supposed to think when the company collects pension contributions from the employees and never puts that money into their pension fund?? (It is my understanding that the bankruptcy judge ruled that money doesn't have to be paid back either.) What should they think when they've been paying $10/week out of their checks to the company to help them out, and STILL the company goes into bankruptcy??

But that's neither here nor there. I think the union made a poor decision and foisted that on the employees. What sense does it make to just walk away without a job around the holidays when one could simply accept the contract (the alternative being NO JOB) and then find a NEW and BETTER job at their leisure after the first of the year? It makes absolutely no business sense at all.

If today's negotiations weren't productive (which it doesn't sound like they were), these people are on the street. The odds of many of them getting new jobs until January are slim to none, in my opinion. Companies just aren't hiring this time of year for anything other than part-time holiday stuff.
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At 18 bucks an hour minus a pension I don't think it would have been a great Christmas anyways. And that is assuming the pay check clears from a bankrupt company.
 
winston53660 said:
Why would Bimbo mind since they can make a buck at the gig.
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Which is fine, if they have a good working relationship. My problem is that there are unions that will screw their members over and the employers for an extra dime a paycheck, many times so that they can increase dues. I do not like the idea of employees strongarming employers, to the point that if I get a manufacturing company started that I've been planning for about four years now, I'd kill the business before allowing the people I pay to take control of my practices, and I believe in treating employees with the utmost respect.
 
LaMidRighter said:
Which is fine, if they have a good working relationship. My problem is that there are unions that will screw their members over and the employers for an extra dime a paycheck, many times so that they can increase dues. I do not like the idea of employees strongarming employers, to the point that if I get a manufacturing company started that I've been planning for about four years now, I'd kill the business before allowing the people I pay to take control of my practices, and I believe in treating employees with the utmost respect.
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Bimbo has done a good job at this so far and pay slightly above the average. I'd look at their model.
 
winston53660 said:
Bimbo has done a good job at this so far and pay slightly above the average. I'd look at their model.
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Not for my business, if Bimbo chooses to operate under a union system it's their choice. If my employees decided they deserve to call the shots I'll close shop, my risk, my rules.
 
LaMidRighter said:
Not for my business, if Bimbo chooses to operate under a union system it's their choice. If my employees decided they deserve to call the shots I'll close shop, my risk, my rules.
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Well I hope you the best.
 
winston53660 said:
Well I hope you the best.
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Much appreciated, it's a back burner thing right now but it's in musical instruments and I've to this point busted my ass trying to get something going.
 
LaMidRighter said:
Much appreciated, it's a back burner thing right now but it's in musical instruments and I've to this point busted my ass trying to get something going.
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Dude that seems like it would be a really tough gig.

I'm in the art gig myself.
 
winston53660 said:
Dude that seems like it would be a really tough gig.

I'm in the art gig myself.
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Yup, huge risk. The established companies have a name and great product, I've got to hope that my ideas are superior and can sell. Art is riskier I would say, the audience must accept it, it's not always about the talent(though I've seen your photos and it's there) but what reaches someone and when.
 
LaMidRighter said:
Much appreciated, it's a back burner thing right now but it's in musical instruments and I've to this point busted my ass trying to get something going.
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No you haven't. Poor people who don't pay taxes but somehow nonetheless are responsible for the road your house is on and whom you therefore owe your business have.
 
cpwill said:
No you haven't. Poor people who don't pay taxes but somehow nonetheless are responsible for the road your house is on and whom you therefore owe your business have.
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I see what you did there. LOL! Actually, I've put my life on hold trying to fund this thing, whereas people who are willing to settle for less are having kids, living an average life, and otherwise not giving a ****. I could just give up and settle for "surviving" but I would rather go for the big hit, this means little sleep and tons of mental stress, C'est la Vie.
 
LaMidRighter said:
Yup, huge risk. The established companies have a name and great product, I've got to hope that my ideas are superior and can sell. Art is riskier I would say, the audience must accept it, it's not always about the talent(though I've seen your photos and it's there) but what reaches someone and when.
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Ah you're preaching to the choir here :2razz:

I get by on it. Looks like I'll be doing some billboards around town here locally. It is just good to get back to work after the heart failure stuff and all.
 
winston53660 said:
Ah you're preaching to the choir here :2razz:

I get by on it. Looks like I'll be doing some billboards around town here locally. It is just good to get back to work after the heart failure stuff and all.
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Glad to hear, hope all is good.
 
LaMidRighter said:
I see what you did there. LOL! Actually, I've put my life on hold trying to fund this thing, whereas people who are willing to settle for less are having kids, living an average life, and otherwise not giving a ****. I could just give up and settle for "surviving" but I would rather go for the big hit, this means little sleep and tons of mental stress, C'est la Vie.
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Wait a minute, my school teachers were pretty clear about this - only if you are lucky will you succeed as a business owner. Your work has nothing to do with it, and you don't actually "do" the work anyway. The only people who work hard are union members.



Seriously though, brother- good for you. Live the dream.
 
cpwill said:
Wait a minute, my school teachers were pretty clear about this - only if you are lucky will you succeed as a business owner. Your work has nothing to do with it, and you don't actually "do" the work anyway. The only people who work hard are union members.



Seriously though, brother- good for you. Live the dream.
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Luck is where preparation meets opportunity
 
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