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Denny's to charge 5% 'Obamacare surcharge' and cut employee hours...[W:287/521]

Re: Denny's to charge 5% 'Obamacare surcharge' and cut employee hours to deal wit

Costs maybe, 'access'? who? and what does that even mean?

Costs definitely and beyond question. We can't afford to keep the system we have. Access to people who don't have coverage. The option of going to the emergency room is not access to health care.
 
Re: Denny's to charge 5% 'Obamacare surcharge' and cut employee hours to deal with co

Money doesn't grow on trees, therefore someone, eventually, will have to pay for it. When you tax businesses, that is passed onto the consumer. This guy is just putting it on your receipt, instead of bumping the price on the pancakes. It happens with other businesses too.
The fact of the matter is that you don't have to buy from Dennys or any other franchise that practices this sort of thing.
 
Re: Denny's to charge 5% 'Obamacare surcharge' and cut employee hours to deal with co

The fact of the matter is that you don't have to buy from Dennys or any other franchise that practices this sort of thing.

I believe they will all be doing it. It's just a matter of will it show on your bill as a "5% obamacare surcharge" or will it be hiden in the price of the item you are buying. Either way, the increased cost to the consumer will be roughly the same.
 
Re: Denny's to charge 5% 'Obamacare surcharge' and cut employee hours to deal wit

Does that really have to be explained to you? There are people in this country who just don't get treated because they don't have enough money to pay for it. Oh, sure, they can go to the ER for critical care, but by the time cancer sends you to the ER, it's probably too late to save you.


Is there no medicaid?
 
Re: Denny's to charge 5% 'Obamacare surcharge' and cut employee hours to deal with co

It was a stupid move for this guy to go about this in this way. More than likely, he just did more to hurt his business by playing at being a politician than Obamacare would have hurt his business. Why would people want to go to his Denny's when he's charging more than other Denny's are? People will say "If other denny's can handle the costs without charging this or cutting employee hours, why does this douche need to do it?" and they are right to ask that question, because he's trying to make a political statement more than anything else. If it was really about costs, he'd take a plan of action that wouldn't push customers away. Instead, he chose to make a political statement that will hurt his business.

Incredibly stupid business decision on his part. He deserves to lose business for it.
 
Re: Denny's to charge 5% 'Obamacare surcharge' and cut employee hours to deal wit

Costs definitely and beyond question. We can't afford to keep the system we have. Access to people who don't have coverage. The option of going to the emergency room is not access to health care.

'Access' is rhetoric. everyone has access. No one is turned away from a doctors office, or hospital. Now ability to pay? well, that is another story, that is cost, not access. To term it as access is dishonest IMHO.

Now, if affordability is the issue we already have safety nets in place to cover those who can't afford treatment.
 
Re: Denny's to charge 5% 'Obamacare surcharge' and cut employee hours to deal wit

So, now we know the problems with the US system are cost and access, and the problem with the Canadian system is wait times.

A better system would be a universal coverage that requires the patient to pay a portion of the costs. Nothing is free, after all, and the patient needs an incentive to cut costs too.

Why stop at medical care, in your quest for "universal" good? Do we not all need food, clothing and shelter MORE? Why not just pay x% of our incomes (should we care to earn one) and get a gov't house, suit and meal provided to us as well? The idea is that people should strive to support themselves, their dependents AND to produce some excess for the common good, not simply be able to sit back and "get by" on their "fair share" taken by the gov't from others. I agree that you care about costs much more if you are the one paying them, but far less so if you feel that you "gave at the office" (paid income tax) or have something owed to you because "you live in a rich country".
 
Re: Denny's to charge 5% 'Obamacare surcharge' and cut employee hours to deal wit

ttwtt78640 said:
Why stop at medical care, in your quest for "universal" good? Do we not all need food, clothing and shelter MORE? Why not just pay x% of our incomes (should we care to earn one) and get a gov't house, suit and meal provided to us as well? The idea is that people should strive to support themselves, their dependents AND to produce some excess for the common good, not simply be able to sit back and "get by" on their "fair share" taken by the gov't from others. I agree that you care about costs much more if you are the one paying them, but far less so if you feel that you "gave at the office" (paid income tax) or have something owed to you because "you live in a rich country".

Hell of an argument right there. If people consider health care a "right", then why isn't food, shelter, and other physiological necessities also deemed as "rights" insofar that we should force government intervention to provide them for free or reduced cost?

It just highlights the entitlement slippery slope America has become accustomed to. We've already let the proverbial genie so far out of the bottle that the hopes of getting it back in is impossible.

I'm afraid for the days when it becomes normal for Americans to receive no check, but a voucher for property, food from a bread line, and directions to a hospital in an effort to provide for all at the cost of personal freedom and choice. Why have we, as a society, become so Orwellian?
 
Re: Denny's to charge 5% 'Obamacare surcharge' and cut employee hours to deal wit

Food stamps and section 8 housing actually do what you guys are are talking about.
 
Re: Denny's to charge 5% 'Obamacare surcharge' and cut employee hours to deal wit

Why stop at medical care, in your quest for "universal" good? Do we not all need food, clothing and shelter MORE? Why not just pay x% of our incomes (should we care to earn one) and get a gov't house, suit and meal provided to us as well? The idea is that people should strive to support themselves, their dependents AND to produce some excess for the common good, not simply be able to sit back and "get by" on their "fair share" taken by the gov't from others. I agree that you care about costs much more if you are the one paying them, but far less so if you feel that you "gave at the office" (paid income tax) or have something owed to you because "you live in a rich country".

No one suddenly and unexpectedly needs a quarter million bucks in clothes or food in order to survive.

When someone does need that amount for a heart attack, then there needs to be insurance to cover the costs.

When the patient needs to see a doctor to get a cut stitched, then the patient should pay for it.

Just like car insurance. If it is a broken mirror, the owner pays to have it fixed. If the car is totaled, then insurance helps out. The only difference is that everyone has a body, but not everyone has a car.
 
Re: Denny's to charge 5% 'Obamacare surcharge' and cut employee hours to deal wit

Hell of an argument right there. If people consider health care a "right", then why isn't food, shelter, and other physiological necessities also deemed as "rights" insofar that we should force government intervention to provide them for free or reduced cost?

It just highlights the entitlement slippery slope America has become accustomed to. We've already let the proverbial genie so far out of the bottle that the hopes of getting it back in is impossible.

I'm afraid for the days when it becomes normal for Americans to receive no check, but a voucher for property, food from a bread line, and directions to a hospital in an effort to provide for all at the cost of personal freedom and choice. Why have we, as a society, become so Orwellian?


We do have a road map of what happens down this road we are on....

images-1.jpegimages-2.jpeg
 
Re: Denny's to charge 5% 'Obamacare surcharge' and cut employee hours to deal wit

Dittohead Not said:
No one suddenly and unexpectedly needs a quarter million bucks in clothes or food in order to survive.

When someone does need that amount for a heart attack, then there needs to be insurance to cover the costs.

This would be a legitimate argument if we were buying clothes from Tommy Hilfiger, PhD. When Paris houses the Versace School of Medicine, we can make apples and oranges comparisons between fashion and medicine.

Just like car insurance. If it is a broken mirror, the owner pays to have it fixed. If the car is totaled, then insurance helps out. The only difference is that everyone has a body, but not everyone has a car.

For responsible people, chances are significant that by the time you actually had a car totaled to the point of needing a replacement, you'd have paid as much in insurance to buy your new car outright, possibly a few times over. This isn't true with health care, so it's not an accurate argument either. There's a reason why certain behaviors result in more expensive insurance or an outright refusal to cover. If you ask me, that is what is creating outrageous costs in health care. I'd rather punish that behavior than open the flood gates and let anyone become a doctor with cheaper, less intensive training.
 
Re: Denny's to charge 5% 'Obamacare surcharge' and cut employee hours to deal with co

Not just customers, but employees. If this jagoff is only giving up 30 hrs./week and Appleby's is offering 40 hrs./week and health insurance, I wonder where the best employees are going to go?

Let's also not forget that the main provisions of ACA don't even go into effect until 2014, so there is no rational justification for this.
Of course there is a rationale. The rationale is that this is just another Conservative who's frustrated that Obama won and so he's going to make a political statement.

You can tell this is a political statement since the guy already figured out a way to get out of paying more for ObamaCare by reducing his employees' hours down to 30/week -- yet he's still adding a 5% surcharge to make people pay for ObamaCare.
 
Re: Denny's to charge 5% 'Obamacare surcharge' and cut employee hours to deal wit

We do have a road map of what happens down this road we are on....

View attachment 67138196View attachment 67138197
Ummm ... there was no national healthcare then ... or social security ... or medicare ... or medicade.

The Great Depression was the result of years of Republican policies.
 
Re: Denny's to charge 5% 'Obamacare surcharge' and cut employee hours to deal wit

This would be a legitimate argument if we were buying clothes from Tommy Hilfiger, PhD. When Paris houses the Versace School of Medicine, we can make apples and oranges comparisons between fashion and medicine.



For responsible people, chances are significant that by the time you actually had a car totaled to the point of needing a replacement, you'd have paid as much in insurance to buy your new car outright, possibly a few times over. This isn't true with health care, so it's not an accurate argument either. There's a reason why certain behaviors result in more expensive insurance or an outright refusal to cover. If you ask me, that is what is creating outrageous costs in health care. I'd rather punish that behavior than open the flood gates and let anyone become a doctor with cheaper, less intensive training.

I'm not the one who brought up clothes, that was ttwtt. You'll have to take that up with him.

Why stop at medical care, in your quest for "universal" good? Do we not all need food, clothing and shelter MORE?

and a brand new car can be totaled rather quickly and unexpectedly, just as anyone can require an expensive medical procedure also quickly and unexpectedly, regardless of the "behaviors" in which they have engaged.

That's why we need insurance.
 
Re: Denny's to charge 5% 'Obamacare surcharge' and cut employee hours to deal wit

Dittohead Not! said:
I'm not the one who brought up clothes, that was ttwtt. You'll have to take that up with him.

You could be right. I joined the party late, and now it's going into a 35th page. I need a play-by-play.

I think you know where I stand though.
 
Re: Denny's to charge 5% 'Obamacare surcharge' and cut employee hours to deal wit

No one suddenly and unexpectedly needs a quarter million bucks in clothes or food in order to survive.

When someone does need that amount for a heart attack, then there needs to be insurance to cover the costs.

When the patient needs to see a doctor to get a cut stitched, then the patient should pay for it.

Just like car insurance. If it is a broken mirror, the owner pays to have it fixed. If the car is totaled, then insurance helps out. The only difference is that everyone has a body, but not everyone has a car.

Well OK, but that is NOT what Obamacare is about, in fact, just the opposite is true. PPACA defines a new list of "broken mirrors" that must be provided at "no out of pocket cost", the exact opposite of your desires. To assert that a huge step in the WRONG direction, is the start of getting to the desired destination is insane. Perhaps those that see PPACA as a step towards universal, single payer or whatever utopian system that they REALLY want are the biggest morons on the face of the planet. We now have SS/Medicare and Medicaid that are fiscal disasters, even though they are "popular", basically because they cost much more that most are willing to pay into them. The current annual cost per patient in Medicare is $7,000 (and rising fast) and PPACA will add many more to that group, most of them still paying nothing or, at most, 2% to 4% of their meager incomes.

The PPACA "reform" keeps all of the same players (medical insurance providers, employers, patients and medical care providers) and adds a few more gov't nannies to "supervise" the whole deal; which does what to make costs go down? Why were the existing gov't medical care programs, Medicare and Medicaid not swallowed up by, or included in PPACA? PPACA just adds another layer, gov't, to what we now have.
 
Re: Denny's to charge 5% 'Obamacare surcharge' and cut employee hours to deal wit

Well OK, but that is NOT what Obamacare is about, in fact, just the opposite is true. PPACA defines a new list of "broken mirrors" that must be provided at "no out of pocket cost", the exact opposite of your desires. To assert that a huge step in the WRONG direction, is the start of getting to the desired destination is insane. Perhaps those that see PPACA as a step towards universal, single payer or whatever utopian system that they REALLY want are the biggest morons on the face of the planet. We now have SS/Medicare and Medicaid that are fiscal disasters, even though they are "popular", basically because they cost much more that most are willing to pay into them. The current annual cost per patient in Medicare is $7,000 (and rising fast) and PPACA will add many more to that group, most of them still paying nothing or, at most, 2% to 4% of their meager incomes.

The PPACA "reform" keeps all of the same players (medical insurance providers, employers, patients and medical care providers) and adds a few more gov't nannies to "supervise" the whole deal; which does what to make costs go down? Why were the existing gov't medical care programs, Medicare and Medicaid not swallowed up by, or included in PPACA? PPACA just adds another layer, gov't, to what we now have.

Correct. Obamneycare is not going to solve the problem of medical care costs. This issue will have to be revisited, and rather soon, as it is bankrupting the nation even more surely than the increasing size and cost of the federal government is doing.

The problem is, Congress is dysfunctional. Neither the issue of the cost of government, nor the issue of the cost of medical care, can be rationally addressed until that body decides to work together to solve the problems of the nation rather than be divided to work for the interests of the party.
 
Re: Denny's to charge 5% 'Obamacare surcharge' and cut employee hours to deal wit

Why stop at medical care, in your quest for "universal" good? Do we not all need food, clothing and shelter MORE? Why not just pay x% of our incomes (should we care to earn one) and get a gov't house, suit and meal provided to us as well? The idea is that people should strive to support themselves, their dependents AND to produce some excess for the common good, not simply be able to sit back and "get by" on their "fair share" taken by the gov't from others. I agree that you care about costs much more if you are the one paying them, but far less so if you feel that you "gave at the office" (paid income tax) or have something owed to you because "you live in a rich country".

That's the crux, isn't it? You genuinely don't think people will pour themselves into a profession unless their livelihood is tied to it. There's no reason why it has to be. There's a lot more that we get out of our occupations than simply financial remuneration. We have pride and purpose. We have a reason to get out of bed in the morning. Everybody needs to be good at something.

At some point (possibly already) it is not going to take the labor of the entire population to produce the goods and services to support the whole population. It is going to be entirely reasonable for a person to live comfortably from 10 hours of work a week. Decoupling labor from livelihood is going to be necessary. And the gap between rich and poor is going to have to go away, too. The system of toiling endlessly to make huge profits for a few wealthy owners cannot mesh with the future where technology renders a lot of labor obsolete.

But the idea that people won't contribute to society unless their life and livelihood is on the line? You really think that it takes the threat of starvation to make people work for a better society? That's untrue and very sad.
 
Re: Denny's to charge 5% 'Obamacare surcharge' and cut employee hours to deal with co

I believe they will all be doing it. It's just a matter of will it show on your bill as a "5% obamacare surcharge" or will it be hiden in the price of the item you are buying. Either way, the increased cost to the consumer will be roughly the same.
True. But that can apply to anything. I'll just let the free market fight that out themselves and make a decision on purchases by what's available and more attractive to my needs and wants. ;)
 
Re: Denny's to charge 5% 'Obamacare surcharge' and cut employee hours to deal wit

Ummm ... there was no national healthcare then ... or social security ... or medicare ... or medicade.

The Great Depression was the result of years of Republican policies.


You realize those are pictures of Weimar right?
 
Re: Denny's to charge 5% 'Obamacare surcharge' and cut employee hours to deal with co

When Canadians come to the US for health care, who pays for it? (Serious question)

Do they pay for it out of pocket? Or, does their government/coverage pay for it?

If they pay for it, that would be a damning example of their system. If their system pays for it, not so much... they're only taking advantage of a loophole and getting the best of both options. Then, the question would be, would they still use our system if it cost them as much as it costs us? Let's make sure we're comparing apples to apples. Access AND cost to the individual need to be considered.
 
Re: Denny's to charge 5% 'Obamacare surcharge' and cut employee hours to deal with co

Anything can be "catastropic" what you'd never believe. A fractured and displaced ankle, needing an ORIF can cost nearly 75,000. when is all said and done.

Mind you, I do not have an extra $75,000.00 laying around, so's I am lucky I had good insurance, although there is some fuss about the remaining $700.00 that got filed wrong...that's another story, about why a single payer plan would be excellent.
 
Re: Denny's to charge 5% 'Obamacare surcharge' and cut employee hours to deal with co

Anything can be "catastropic" what you'd never believe. A fractured and displaced ankle, needing an ORIF can cost nearly 75,000. when is all said and done.

Mind you, I do not have an extra $75,000.00 laying around, so's I am lucky I had good insurance, although there is some fuss about the remaining $700.00 that got filed wrong...that's another story, about why a single payer plan would be excellent.


Why would a misfiled $700 be any better under a single payer plan? Could it be that it would be the government that picked up the waste of that rather than you having to fight it?
 
Re: Denny's to charge 5% 'Obamacare surcharge' and cut employee hours to deal wit

No one suddenly and unexpectedly needs a quarter million bucks in clothes or food in order to survive.

When someone does need that amount for a heart attack, then there needs to be insurance to cover the costs.

Just like car insurance. If it is a broken mirror, the owner pays to have it fixed. If the car is totaled, then insurance helps out. The only difference is that everyone has a body, but not everyone has a car.

I agree with you, but we have to be careful with these comparisons. A heart attack is not necessarily like totaling a car. A heart attack might be like the engine failing in a 1980 Ferrari Mondial after you drove it without ever changing the oil (comparison: an obese 60-year old who has eaten **** food all his life and never exercised). Will car insurance will replace the engine of your 1980 Ferrari Mondial? How about if you have wrecked countless cars in the past, had your license suspended, and visibly neglect your vehicle's maintenance needs? Are you an innocent victim of something going wrong? Should insurance come to your rescue and make sure you can drive your 1980 Ferrari for as long as is technologically possible?

Another example: Yes the patient should pay to get a cut stitched, but if s/he has already spent their out of pocket maximum treating their inflammatory bowel disease, they end up not having to pay for even the minor things like cut-stitching. Or say a person needed a cut stitched every week for a year, that would end up all getting covered. A lot of people who are covered by some form of "insurance" or another already know on January 1st that they are going to blow past their annual out-of-pocket maximum for the year, and I've even heard some people say they wish they could just cut a check for $2,500 (or whatever theirs annual maximum is) to their insurance company and just have them cover everything for the rest of the year so that they don't have to keep track of the individual bills.

Those who should be most protected by health insurance are the relatively young and healthy who have done all the right things but have been truly unlucky. Accident or rare illness. OTOH, perhaps heart attacks and strokes in fat 60+ year olds should not be covered by ANYTHING. Because at that point, it's not insurance. It's just financial idiocy. Really, it's just welfare at that point. Welfare of the most unaffordable kind.

Correct. Obamneycare is not going to solve the problem of medical care costs.

Isn't that interesting, considering it is called the Patient Protection and AFFORDABLE CARE Act?
 
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