Denny's to charge 5% 'Obamacare surcharge' and cut employee hours...[W:287/521]

winston53660 · Nov 21, 2012

LaMidRighter said:
Insurance premiums are going up, employee plans are going up to the companies, this is only the beginning. If it makes you feel better that it's only 14 cents increase for one item(that is visible, not counting other cost increases) before the entire turd has started to smell then I don't know what to tell you Deuce. The bill isn't even fully implemented until 2016 and it is constantly able to be changed without congressional input through the NHS, these are initial increases. So, .14$ for a pizza, 120$ for a Ford, .30$ for a gallon of gas, it adds up.

I'd take what we have now over:

In 2008, the average annual premiums for
employer-sponsored health insurance are
$4,704 for single coverage and $12,680
for family coverage, up about 5% from
the 2007 average premiums.
2
Since 1999,
average premiums for family coverage
have increased 119% (Exhibit A). Average
premiums for family coverage are lower for
workers in small firms (3–199 workers)
than for workers in large firms (200 or
more workers). Premiums are higher
in self-funded plans than fully insured
plans for single and family coverage.
Average premiums for HDHP/SOs are
lower than the overall average for all plan
types for both single and family coverage
(Exhibit B).
http://ehbs.kff.org/images/abstract/7791.pdf

radcen · Nov 21, 2012

AdamT said:
The supposed 14 cent increase (actually closer to 5 cents) is in reponse to a section of the law that won't even go into effect until 2014. Schnatter is making a political statement -- not an economic statement.

That's only when they have to start paying for it, based on what they do in 2013... which is only 5-ish weeks away. Crazy concept, I know, but forethought and pre-planning is a good thing in business.

AdamT · Nov 21, 2012

radcen said:
That's only when they have to start paying for it, based on what they do in 2013... which is only 5-ish weeks away. Crazy concept, I know, but forethought and pre-planning is a good thing in business.

No, it doesn't apply to 2013 employment. Papa John's doesn't have to start screwing its employees for a full year.

LaMidRighter · Nov 21, 2012

winston53660 said:
I'd take what we have now over:

In 2008, the average annual premiums for
employer-sponsored health insurance are
$4,704 for single coverage and $12,680
for family coverage, up about 5% from
the 2007 average premiums.
2
Since 1999,
average premiums for family coverage
have increased 119% (Exhibit A). Average
premiums for family coverage are lower for
workers in small firms (3–199 workers)
than for workers in large firms (200 or
more workers). Premiums are higher
in self-funded plans than fully insured
plans for single and family coverage.
Average premiums for HDHP/SOs are
lower than the overall average for all plan
types for both single and family coverage
(Exhibit B).
http://ehbs.kff.org/images/abstract/7791.pdf

None of the root causes have been solved, in fact it's been doubled down on. This law sucks, and will get worse. I've spoken at length in the past about why premiums have continued to balloon, most of the problems have been health insurance law, so the solution was to add the worst problems into mandate.

cpwill · Nov 21, 2012

winston53660 said:
I'd take what we have now over:

In 2008, the average annual premiums for
employer-sponsored health insurance are
$4,704 for single coverage and $12,680
for family coverage, up about 5% from
the 2007 average premiums.
2
Since 1999,
average premiums for family coverage
have increased 119% (Exhibit A). Average
premiums for family coverage are lower for
workers in small firms (3–199 workers)
than for workers in large firms (200 or
more workers). Premiums are higher
in self-funded plans than fully insured
plans for single and family coverage.
Average premiums for HDHP/SOs are
lower than the overall average for all plan
types for both single and family coverage
(Exhibit B).
http://ehbs.kff.org/images/abstract/7791.pdf

Yup. So. When are they going to start going down, as Obama repeatedly promised?

cpwill · Nov 21, 2012

LaMidRighter said:
None of the root causes have been solved, in fact it's been doubled down on. This law sucks, and will get worse. I've spoken at length in the past about why premiums have continued to balloon, most of the problems have been health insurance law, so the solution was to add the worst problems into mandate.

Bingo. The ACA takes the dumbest parts of our current healthcare system (centralized decision making, third party purchase) and doubles down on them. This is going to get a lot worse before it gets better, folks.

winston53660 · Nov 21, 2012

cpwill said:
Yup. So. When are they going to start going down, as Obama repeatedly promised?

If the projected rate of increase decreases from historical patterns that is a step in the right direction.

Anecdotally I got a 6% decrease in my premium.

cpwill · Nov 21, 2012

winston53660 said:
If the projected rate of increase decreases from historical patterns that is a step in the right direction.

Huh.

Kaiser (which, it should be noted, was historically a proponent of Obamacare) says that the ACA is responsible for spiking prices up.

...The cost of an average family premium shot up 9.5% in 2011 — the highest rate in seven years and three times the rate of overall inflation, finds a major new survey of employer plans by Kaiser Family Foundation.

Just before Obama signed his health overhaul, he vowed it would "bring down the cost of health care for families, for businesses and for the federal government." In December, he told CBS' "60 Minutes" he was "putting in place a system that's going to lower health care costs."...

Kaiser attributes the premium spike to "changes from the new health reform law." The 200-page study explains: "Significant percentages of firms made changes in their preventive care benefits and enrolled adult children in their benefits plans in response to provisions in the new health reform law."...

Costs are projected to simply rise as ObamaCare fully goes into effect. A recent McKinsey & Co. study found that 30% of employers will stop offering benefits after 2014, since "the penalty for not offering coverage is significantly below" the costs of the new mandates....

"If you like your insurance, you can keep it." "So long as the insurance you have is already government - provided"

.

LaMidRighter · Nov 21, 2012

winston53660 said:
If the projected rate of increase decreases from historical patterns that is a step in the right direction.

Anecdotally I got a 6% decrease in my premium.

Individual results are not a trend. Overall premiums have gone up dramatically, in some regions up to a thousand dollars difference.

winston53660 · Nov 21, 2012

cpwill said:
Huh.

Kaiser (which, it should be noted, was historically a proponent of Obamacare) says that the ACA is responsible for spiking prices up.

"If you like your insurance, you can keep it." "So long as the insurance you have is already government - provided" .

Increases have out paced earnings before Obama care. BTW your link is not to Kaiser but rather Investors Business daily. Why did you do that?

cpwill · Nov 21, 2012

winston53660 said:
Increases have out paced earnings before Obama care.

Second chart, winston- the second chart. The annual increase in premiums was decreasing before Obamacare, and spiked back up after Obamacare.

BTW your link is not to Kaiser but rather Investors Business daily. Why did you do that?

...because they were the first Google hit when I typed in a search for the report?

winston53660 · Nov 21, 2012

cpwill said:
Second chart, winston- the second chart. The annual increase in premiums was decreasing before Obamacare, and spiked back up after Obamacare.

Short time span.

...because they were the first Google hit when I typed in a search for the report?

So why type in Kaiser and then link the word Kaiser? Unless to deceive....

cpwill · Nov 21, 2012

winston53660 said:
Short time span.

YOU are the one who implicitly claimed that Obamacare would bend the cost curve in premiums down. It's not my fault that in fact they bent up.

So why type in Kaiser and then link the word Kaiser? Unless to deceive....

:roll: you got me, winston. The reason I linked an article is because I didn't want anyone to click on the link. Not because that was also the article I pulled the chart I posted from, or because it was immediately there, or anything. I was secretly hoping nobody here had the ability to click a mouse... and I would have gotten away with it, too, if it hadn't been for you kids and that darn dog. :lol:

winston53660 · Nov 21, 2012

cpwill said:
YOU are the one who implicitly claimed that Obamacare would bend the cost curve in premiums down. It's not my fault that in fact they bent up.

And in my short term it has by 6%

:roll: you got me, winston. The reason I linked an article is because I didn't want anyone to click on the link. Not because that was also the article I pulled the chart I posted from, or because it was immediately there, or anything. I was secretly hoping nobody here had the ability to click a mouse... and I would have gotten away with it, too, if it hadn't been for you kids and that darn dog. :lol:

I thought I was going to Kaiser not investors business daily.

LaMidRighter · Nov 21, 2012

winston53660 said:
Short time span.

So why type in Kaiser and then link the word Kaiser? Unless to deceive....

I hate to tell you this Winston, but everything that has happened has fallen within my predictions. The market increased in the health sector due to the panic in needing to buy, but the health services sector fell into the red around my predicted time frame, the next point is going to be a major industry panic. This bill is going to dessimate the health sector.

cpwill · Nov 21, 2012

winston53660 said:
And in my short term it has by 6%

That's nice for you. If the entire nation had experienced that, it would have saved us quite a lot of money.

Unfortunately, your health situation is... shall we say.... not exactly representative. You win out with community rating. Its' just the rest of the community who loses. Which is why for the populace as a whole, prices spiked up.

I thought I was going to Kaiser not investors business daily.

Well I hope one day with counseling you will be able to put your disappointment behind you?

cpwill · Nov 21, 2012

LaMidRighter said:
I hate to tell you this Winston, but everything that has happened has fallen within my predictions. The market increased in the health sector due to the panic in needing to buy, but the health services sector fell into the red around my predicted time frame, the next point is going to be a major industry panic. This bill is going to dessimate the health sector.

Which, I think, in my more cynical moments, is precisely what it was designed to do.

winston53660 · Nov 21, 2012

LaMidRighter said:
I hate to tell you this Winston, but everything that has happened has fallen within my predictions. The market increased in the health sector due to the panic in needing to buy, but the health services sector fell into the red around my predicted time frame, the next point is going to be a major industry panic. This bill is going to dessimate the health sector.

I've had a couple of bumps in my care. They were worse when nobody knew what was going on. They have begun to even out though. And I really use the system. Tomorrow I get to go to my heart transplant center I'm in the congestive heart failure part now though.

LaMidRighter · Nov 21, 2012

cpwill said:
Which, I think, in my more cynical moments, is precisely what it was designed to do.

Limbaugh made that argument. I'm truly not sure if this bill was willful or if it's the typical arrogant incompetence of lawmakers. Either way, the entire health sector is further being screwed by the people who messed it up to begin with.

winston53660 · Nov 21, 2012

cpwill said:
That's nice for you. If the entire nation had experienced that, it would have saved us quite a lot of money.

Unfortunately, your health situation is... shall we say.... not exactly representative. You win out with community rating. Its' just the rest of the community who loses. Which is why for the populace as a whole, prices spiked up.

Most people I know got a reduction or a check back

Well I hope one day with counseling you will be able to put your disappointment behind you?

Nah I've known for a while that you do that and it has become to be expected.

LaMidRighter · Nov 21, 2012

winston53660 said:
I've had a couple of bumps in my care. They were worse when nobody knew what was going on. They have begun to even out though. And I really use the system. Tomorrow I get to go to my heart transplant center I'm in the congestive heart failure part now though.

You're a good dude, I hope things work out for you. Heart failure, COPD, and cancer were the three highest cost items when I sold, basically due to the chronic nature of the ailments. The biggest problem is that we have regulations from the early 1900s that have less to do with quality of care and more to do with market controls, these resulted in physician and nursing shortages leading to care cost increases, which eventually spilled down to "insurance reform" in the 70s, at that point the economics of scale started to catch up and this is where the real medical inflation took off. The big problem is that instead of addressing costs, the latest bill forces more risk into the pools, I want people who need coverage to have it don't get me wrong but we've got to get care costs down by keeping only the most important regs in place.

cpwill · Nov 21, 2012

winston53660 said:
Most people I know got a reduction or a check back

Yes. And nobody that Pauline Kael knew voted for Nixon. Anecdotes do not alter the reality, which is that Obamacare caused premiums to increase the rate at which they were going up.

Nah I've known for a while that you do that and it has become to be expected.

:shrug: dude. It was a link. If I was trying to hide the source, I wouldn't have linked it.

winston53660 · Nov 21, 2012

LaMidRighter said:
You're a good dude, I hope things work out for you. Heart failure, COPD, and cancer were the three highest cost items when I sold, basically due to the chronic nature of both ailments. The biggest problem is that we have regulations from the early 1900s that have less to do with quality of care and more to do with market controls, these resulted in physician and nursing shortages leading to care cost increases, which eventually spilled down to "insurance reform" in the 70s, at that point the economics of scale started to catch up and this is where the real medical inflation took off. The big problem is that instead of addressing costs, the latest bill forces more risk into the pools, I want people who need coverage to have it don't get me wrong but we've got to get care costs down by keeping only the most important regs in place.

I'm very fortunate that I get to go to one of the most successful transplant centers in the country. The Hospital has something like 5 or 6 Nobel Laureates on staff. But even still my blood tests tomorrow will cost in the 'hood of 1k. I have these every three months that alone is 3k per year. Not counting other costs and the other blood test I take every 2 weeks. It really adds up!

LaMidRighter · Nov 21, 2012

winston53660 said:
I'm very fortunate that I get to go to one of the most successful transplant centers in the country. The Hospital has something like 5 or 6 Nobel Laureates on staff. But even still my blood tests tomorrow will cost in the 'hood of 1k. I have these every three months that alone is 3k per year. Not counting other costs and the other blood test I take every 2 weeks. It really adds up!

No doubt, cardiovascular care is very complex and very expensive, one of the reasons that any blips in that category were killers for potential H.I. clients. I had more trouble with Cardio, any history of cancer, or C.O.P.D. with underwriting than anything.

winston53660 · Nov 21, 2012

cpwill said:
Yes. And nobody that Pauline Kael knew voted for Nixon. Anecdotes do not alter the reality, which is that Obamacare caused premiums to increase the rate at which they were going up.

I hate critics and never read them. And as far as Obamacare it is to early to determine IMHO. The exchanges are not even open yet

:shrug: dude. It was a link. If I was trying to hide the source, I wouldn't have linked it.

No, you typed in Kaiser and linked the word.

Denny's to charge 5% 'Obamacare surcharge' and cut employee hours...[W:287/521]

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