• This is a political forum that is non-biased/non-partisan and treats every person's position on topics equally. This debate forum is not aligned to any political party. In today's politics, many ideas are split between and even within all the political parties. Often we find ourselves agreeing on one platform but some topics break our mold. We are here to discuss them in a civil political debate. If this is your first visit to our political forums, be sure to check out the RULES. Registering for debate politics is necessary before posting. Register today to participate - it's free!

Australian priests could be forced to breach seal of the confessional

spanky

Banned
Joined
Oct 10, 2012
Messages
5,431
Reaction score
979
Gender
Undisclosed
Political Leaning
Undisclosed
Australian priests could be forced to breach seal of the confessional - Telegraph



Prime Minister Julia Gillard on Wednesday slammed the use of the confessional to avoid reporting abuse, saying it is a "sin of omission" and all adults have a duty to protect children.

She announced this week the launch of a Royal Commission to investigate offences involving religious and non-religious organisations and insisted it will examine not only abuse but the role of institutions in covering it up.

Though the commission's terms of reference are yet to be decided, Ms Gillard said on Wednesday she was concerned about adults "averting their eyes" from crimes against children.

snip

He said priests should avoid taking confessions from colleagues suspected of being paedophiles but that they cannot then report the crime to police.

"If that is done outside the confessional (it can be passed on)," he said.

"(But) the Seal of Confession is inviolable If the priest knows beforehand about such a situation, the priest should refuse to hear the confession." The strict secrecy of confessions is believed to be more than 1000 years old.

So the solution from the church is for priests to refuse confessionals to pedos.

Nice.

So the question here is should priests be relieved from reporting pedophilia to authorities which they discover during confession?

FWIW - Even doctors, under the seal of medical privacy, are required to report such.
 
I think this is a step in the right direction for the Catholic church.
 
Australian priests could be forced to breach seal of the confessional - Telegraph





So the solution from the church is for priests to refuse confessionals to pedos.

Nice.

So the question here is should priests be relieved from reporting pedophilia to authorities which they discover during confession?

FWIW - Even doctors, under the seal of medical privacy, are required to report such.

Hell no. They need to report it. It doesn't matter what some men in funny hats say.
 
When the government can impose its will on the church, society is in trouble.

It's not imposing it's will, it's imposing it's laws, just like they do on everyone else.

Why should the church be exempt?
 
Australian priests could be forced to breach seal of the confessional - Telegraph





So the solution from the church is for priests to refuse confessionals to pedos.

Nice.

So the question here is should priests be relieved from reporting pedophilia to authorities which they discover during confession?

FWIW - Even doctors, under the seal of medical privacy, are required to report such.


Maybe we can get a priest here to explain. When I was studying for the priesthood, I recall that if you could PREVENT harm, then you can disclose. For example, if someone came into the confessional and said "I'm going to murder someone" then you should report that, but if they say "I did murder someone," then you don't, but the priest should tell them to confess.

So the way I see it if it is confessed to them that "I will continue to abuse children," then that should be reported. I don't know, that's just what I remember from 20 years ago.

OK, here's what I think (as a no-longer-Catholic): The priest can give you any penance for your sins to be forgiven. The priest hearing a confession of molesting children should make confessing to the police part of the penance.
 
Maybe we can get a priest here to explain. When I was studying for the priesthood, I recall that if you could PREVENT harm, then you can disclose. For example, if someone came into the confessional and said "I'm going to murder someone" then you should report that, but if they say "I did murder someone," then you don't, but the priest should tell them to confess.

So the way I see it if it is confessed to them that "I will continue to abuse children," then that should be reported. I don't know, that's just what I remember from 20 years ago.

OK, here's what I think (as a no-longer-Catholic): The priest can give you any penance for your sins to be forgiven. The priest hearing a confession of molesting children should make confessing to the police part of the penance.

A nice way to put it.
 
Separation of church and state.

You have a Byzantine view of SOCAS.

What you are suggesting is the Church is an entity outside the confines of society and neither has to conform to nor follow or observe the same rules and laws as everyone else.

Fail.

The Church doesn't make up it's own rules...at least anymore.
 
Thomas Jefferson would agree with me.

You have a Byzantine view of SOCAS.

What you are suggesting is the Church is an entity outside the confines of society and neither has to conform to nor follow or observe the same rules and laws as everyone else.

Fail.

The Church doesn't make up it's own rules...at least anymore.
 
Thomas Jefferson would agree with me.

Thomas Jefferson kept slaves even though he seemed to be against slavery.

TJ was brilliant in many ways, doesn't mean he was always right.
 
Right, but you called my views "Byzantine." Jefferson was a preeminent American thinker.

Thomas Jefferson kept slaves even though he seemed to be against slavery.

TJ was brilliant in many ways, doesn't mean he was always right.
 
Separation of church and state.

That's idiotic. The church is still liable to follow the law. Or are you suggesting priests ought to be able to go out and shoot people at random and suffer no consequences for it?
 
How can we have a civilized debate if we're already resorting to name-calling?

That's idiotic. The church is still liable to follow the law. Or are you suggesting priests ought to be able to go out and shoot people at random and suffer no consequences for it?
 
As a general rule, arising from common law (upon which both American and Australian law are founded), you have no obligation to report any crime you witness. The primary traditional exception is that you have a duty to protect people with whom you have a status relationship (e.g., your spouse, your minor children).

Misprision involves acts of concealment, not just a failure to report criminal activity.

There was a trend, some years back, for mostly local governments to try to pass laws requiring the reporting of certain offenses (so-called "Good Samaritan" laws), usually crimes in progress. That trend was parodied in the final episode of the T.V. series, Seinfeld.

Mandatory reporting laws, while constitutional, go against both Australian and American legal tradition.
 
While I think that any good government that cares about the rights and liberties of its citizenry, should be VERY VERY cautious and hesitant about sticking its nose into the internal proceedures of any religious organization... when you have reason to believe that a certain type of very serious crime (ie pedo) has become a problem within that religious org, and that the org's own internal rules are causing the crimes to be covered up and interfering with prosecution, you have a strong argument for such intervention.

Whether this intervention is legal I could not say, as I have almost zero knowlege of Australia's legal structure, or whether they have anything similar to the BoR or not.
 
Moderator's Warning:
This is a topic that could easily become volatile and engage emotions.... so let's be civil and avoid needless provocation please.
 
Australian priests could be forced to breach seal of the confessional - Telegraph





So the solution from the church is for priests to refuse confessionals to pedos.

Nice.

So the question here is should priests be relieved from reporting pedophilia to authorities which they discover during confession?

FWIW - Even doctors, under the seal of medical privacy, are required to report such.

Priests should face the same punishments anyone else would for refusing to notify authorities of child abuse.
 
Australian priests could be forced to breach seal of the confessional - Telegraph





So the solution from the church is for priests to refuse confessionals to pedos.

Nice.

So the question here is should priests be relieved from reporting pedophilia to authorities which they discover during confession?

FWIW - Even doctors, under the seal of medical privacy, are required to report such.

Confessions should be like doctor or psychiatrist visits, completely confidential. Unless the person is talking about specifically harming someone.

I'm an avid atheist, but I fully support the church to maintain its own beliefs.
 
Philosophically the confessional should not be given special legal status, but given the power of the catholic church the practical solution is to scale the protection based on the information being revealed. Not revealing an act of petty theft is different than covering up mass child molestation.
 
Not coming forward to reveal something is different from actively covering something up

Philosophically the confessional should not be given special legal status, but given the power of the catholic church the practical solution is to scale the protection based on the information being revealed. Not revealing an act of petty theft is different than covering up mass child molestation.
 
Confessions should be like doctor or psychiatrist visits, completely confidential. Unless the person is talking about specifically harming someone.

I'm an avid atheist, but I fully support the church to maintain its own beliefs.


If a child came in with suspicious bruises a doctor would be legally required in many places to notify the authories.If a child came into a quack's office and said mommy's new friend touch him in his private place then that quack in many places would be legally required to notify the authorities. Failure to report child abuse in many states is either a misdemeanor or felony.
 
Confessions should be like doctor or psychiatrist visits, completely confidential. Unless the person is talking about specifically harming someone.

I'm an avid atheist, but I fully support the church to maintain its own beliefs.
If I have followed correctly, this is an attempt to bring the Church in line with the privileged communication standards of those professionals.

In the US this is all covered under State law, so as usually quite the patchwork. Most States protect the client-lawyer privileged communication, a lot don’t for spousal and patient-physician communications. A handful of States, including here in Texas, explicitly state that clergy are required to report. More info here on clery in the US.
 
If a child came in with suspicious bruises a doctor would be legally required in many places to notify the authories.If a child came into a quack's office and said mommy's new friend touch him in his private place then that quack in many places would be legally required to notify the authorities. Failure to report child abuse in many states is either a misdemeanor or felony.

I guess you failed to read my comment. I specifically said "Unless the person is talking about specifically harming someone."

Thanks for wasting your time and mine.
 
Back
Top Bottom