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U.S. to Be World’s Top Oil Producer in 5 Years

sawyerloggingon

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I can't figure this one out. seems like just yesterday enviros were telling us the US hardly had any oil now we are suddenly going to be the top producer. I do believe we have alot of NG and oil but somehow I think this is about making obama look good or convincing us paying more for gas is fine. Something funny going on here.

"That increased oil production, combined with new American policies to improve energy efficiency, means that the United States will become “all but self-sufficient” in meeting its energy needs in about two decades — a “dramatic reversal of the trend” in most developed countries"

http://www.nytimes.com/2012/11/13/b...t-sees-us-as-top-oil-producer-in-5-years.html
 
Canada will put a stop to that.
 
we have massive coal and natural gas reserves. coal is easily convertable to oil for about ~$30 a barrel. but, we also have tons of oil. the environmentalist wing of the democratic party is like the teaparty of the republicans.

but these figures about american energy independence/massive reserves are incompatible with the 'america is dying' view. obama has been elected, america is going to die. these are facts. fox news told me so.

Canada will put a stop to that.

canada will probably eventually join the north american union with mexico, so we'll all be one big country soon enough in relative terms.
 
We can't refine any more than we are refining, so it really does not matter how much we produce (not that the 5-year estimate is anywhere close to true).
 
We can't refine any more than we are refining, so it really does not matter how much we produce (not that the 5-year estimate is anywhere close to true).

build more refineries?
 
build more refineries?

My understanding is the current regulatory policies and Local Bribe Club/Public Official Retirement Plans make that virtually impossible to do anywhere near where the oil comes in. I think I heard somewhere it takes about 30 years to build a fully functioning refinery anyway but IDK.
 
We can't refine any more than we are refining, so it really does not matter how much we produce (not that the 5-year estimate is anywhere close to true).

Nonsense. We can refine as much as we want to, and do it in a safe manner. The present limit on refining is due to refinery capacity not keeping up. The safest and most economical method of bringing the carbon based energy to the consumer is to do it in our country where manufacturing and delivery can be observed. This does not mean using regulation to limit supply to make alternate sources more competitive. The simple answer is to encourage more refining capacity. Make a guess how many new refineries have been brought on line in the past few years.
 
My understanding is the current regulatory policies and Local Bribe Club/Public Official Retirement Plans make that virtually impossible to do anywhere near where the oil comes in. I think I heard somewhere it takes about 30 years to build a fully functioning refinery anyway but IDK.

jesus if it really takes 30 years we're screwed. but i cant imagine anything takes 30 years to build...i mean we can make aircraft carriers from scratch including nuclear reactors in 4 years. i cant believe it takes 30 to make an oil processing facility. do you have any sources for that figure? i'd be shocked if it was true
 
A tribute to modern capitalism, for we know the government didn't build that - the supply that is. Leases for federal property oil development are down dramatically over the last 4 years.

Refining capacity is a serious issue; we force refineries to change the types of fuel they produce routinely (winter blend, summer, etc) and we pretty much forbade the development of new refineries. Its cheaper to build them in Mexico and import the gas. Thank those regulators and NAFTA for that one.
 
Nonsense. We can refine as much as we want to, and do it in a safe manner. The present limit on refining is due to refinery capacity not keeping up. The safest and most economical method of bringing the carbon based energy to the consumer is to do it in our country where manufacturing and delivery can be observed. This does not mean using regulation to limit supply to make alternate sources more competitive. The simple answer is to encourage more refining capacity. Make a guess how many new refineries have been brought on line in the past few years.

None. We have taken 6 refineries offline in the past few years.
 
jesus if it really takes 30 years we're screwed. but i cant imagine anything takes 30 years to build...i mean we can make aircraft carriers from scratch including nuclear reactors in 4 years. i cant believe it takes 30 to make an oil processing facility. do you have any sources for that figure? i'd be shocked if it was true

It doesn't take 30 years. This is a country that started WW II with almost no military manufacturing capacity and ended up producing over 300,000 airplanes and a thousand ships in 4 years. The problem is refusing to allow the permit to be issued and the hole to be dug.
 
It doesn't take 30 years. This is a country that started WW II with almost no military manufacturing capacity and ended up producing over 300,000 airplanes and a thousand ships in 4 years. The problem is refusing to allow the permit to be issued and the hole to be dug.

good. that makes me feel better.
 
My understanding is the current regulatory policies and Local Bribe Club/Public Official Retirement Plans make that virtually impossible to do anywhere near where the oil comes in. I think I heard somewhere it takes about 30 years to build a fully functioning refinery anyway but IDK.

Not even close to true. In a rush, you could build an average sized (I'm basing average on the three refinery's around here) in probably 2-3 years based on how long it takes to build other types of plants and various units inside plants. If you think of the refinery as a bunch of little units all right beside each other, then think about the fact that you can have crews working on each unit at the same time (standard procedure) you can have the entire thing operational possibly even sooner than my 2 year estimate, depending on if you want they crews to work 40 hour weeks or 50's and how many guys you have on the job.
 
It doesn't take 30 years. This is a country that started WW II with almost no military manufacturing capacity and ended up producing over 300,000 airplanes and a thousand ships in 4 years. The problem is refusing to allow the permit to be issued and the hole to be dug.

Building a refinery will take four years. Going through the regulations process and getting every NGO's approval will take 26 years.
 
Why on Earth would it take 30 years to build a refinery?
 
good. that makes me feel better.

Does it make you feel better that one of our newest refineries took 7 years just to get one single clean air permit?

Depending on where it is located, you have the additional headaches of environmental law suits to try to stop you. You then must also take into consideration the issues with building pipelines and stuff. The regulatory aspects are the headache. I read they had tried to build a super refinery in Louisiana but after basically having to bribe local "facilitators" to bribe the endless line of local officials, the company gave up on it but I forgot which company that was.


YIPPEE! Two New Oil Refineries in Development. First in US in 35 Years. « freedombytheway
 
U.S. to Be World’s Top Oil Producer in 5 Years


When it happens, I will believe it.

Not before.
 
Does it make you feel better that one of our newest refineries took 7 years just to get one single clean air permit?

Depending on where it is located, you have the additional headaches of environmental law suits to try to stop you. You then must also take into consideration the issues with building pipelines and stuff. The regulatory aspects are the headache. I read they had tried to build a super refinery in Louisiana but after basically having to bribe local "facilitators" to bribe the endless line of local officials, the company gave up on it but I forgot which company that was.


YIPPEE! Two New Oil Refineries in Development. First in US in 35 Years. « freedombytheway

why dont we use solar powered trains to deliver oil to refineries in the desert where no one cares about the environment? actually nevermind, that sounds too much like compromise between the left and the right to ever work.
 
why dont we use solar powered trains to deliver oil to refineries in the desert where no one cares about the environment? actually nevermind, that sounds too much like compromise between the left and the right to ever work.

That and you forget that environmental whackos flock to the desert and have nothing better to do with their time than sue people on behalf of endangered humpback snails.

We'd be better off just building a bunch in Mexico and piping it across IMHO. I imagine the cost of desalination plants for more water would be less than the legal fees here in the US. It would also help with that illegal immigration problem, but that makes too much sense.
 
U.S. to Be World’s Top Oil Producer in 5 Years


When it happens, I will believe it.

Not before.

With you on that. Right now, there is some discussion to start building reliquefaction plants and start exporting Natural Gas. There is gonna be one in the next 2-4 years. The rest of are in the permitting process and its estimated to be 6-10 year process.
 
Does it make you feel better that one of our newest refineries took 7 years just to get one single clean air permit?

Depending on where it is located, you have the additional headaches of environmental law suits to try to stop you. You then must also take into consideration the issues with building pipelines and stuff. The regulatory aspects are the headache. I read they had tried to build a super refinery in Louisiana but after basically having to bribe local "facilitators" to bribe the endless line of local officials, the company gave up on it but I forgot which company that was.

YIPPEE! Two New Oil Refineries in Development. First in US in 35 Years. « freedombytheway

It pays to look at Keystone. The line was proposed in 2005, the extension in 2008. Canada and some states have already approved the project. Obama put it in hold till after 2013. There is no guarantee that it will ever be built.

If the US doesn't get the pipeline, the line will be built to the ocean to load ships carrying crude to China. No environmental worries, no permit issues, no US jobs or fuel.

The pipeline is a win win for everyone. The US gets the refining, Canada gets the oil revenue, the world and the US get the oil. The obstacle is the environmentalists and the alternate fuel crowd. Bringing cheaper oil to the world and US markets dooms the alternate energy market, already underwater in terms of competitiveness.
 
That and you forget that environmental whackos flock to the desert and have nothing better to do with their time than sue people on behalf of endangered humpback snails.

We'd be better off just building a bunch in Mexico and piping it across IMHO. I imagine the cost of desalination plants for more water would be less than the legal fees here in the US. It would also help with that illegal immigration problem, but that makes too much sense.

feel free to hunt those types:
cxcxxcxc.jpg
 
It pays to look at Keystone. The line was proposed in 2005, the extension in 2008. Canada and some states have already approved the project. Obama put it in hold till after 2013. There is no guarantee that it will ever be built.

If the US doesn't get the pipeline, the line will be built to the ocean to load ships carrying crude to China. No environmental worries, no permit issues, no US jobs or fuel.

The pipeline is a win win for everyone. The US gets the refining, Canada gets the oil revenue, the world and the US get the oil. The obstacle is the environmentalists and the alternate fuel crowd. Bringing cheaper oil to the world and US markets dooms the alternate energy market, already underwater in terms of competitiveness.

Actually, if the pipeline is built, it still goes on a boat to China, it's just that it's refined first.

And if the price gets low enough, it'll run dry. They won't be going after the tar sands if the price goes lower than is profitable for them.
 
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