Papa John's CEO: Obamacare likely to raise costs, employee's hours being cut [W:387]

PirateMk1 said:

I am looking at Panama, Belize, Southern Baja Mexico, and seasteading. It is happening. For me its a matter of when I can.

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There was another poster who exchanged messages with me about doing much the same thing.

Re: Papa Johns' CEO: Obamacare will increase our costs, reduce employee hours

cpwill said:

This thread (and all the others to follow) is dedicated to the Golden Goose Liberals out there who truly honestly believe that it does not matter what burden you put on business, they will keep on magically producing jobs and tax revenue.

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So you're saying there will be a demand for employees who don't need the employer to provide medical coverage? Hmm...looks good for veterans.

Re: Papa Johns' CEO: Obamacare will increase our costs, reduce employee hours

I see at least a couple options here.

1. raise the cost of a pizza by a buck.

2. decouple health care from specific employment.

I prefer option 2, but option 1 should suffice in the short term.

PirateMk1 said:

That may be the case. However half the people in the country are against it. Whether or not its confusion is immaterial. Whether or not its benificial in immaterial. Fact is it was rammed down my throat. I didnt ask for it and I didnt need it. I have a HSA which I am perfectly happy with. My rates since this measure passed have gone up. I dont have bells and whistles in my plan to keep it as cheap as possible. After $5000 deductable everything is covered under my plan. 100% including medication with a 10,000,000 lifetime limit.
My taxes are going up. My expences are going up. And my business is slowing down. I aint a happy camper.

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I'm sorry you have a $10 million limit? What kind of plan do you have? Also part of the healthcare act means in 2014 you can get even more benefits out of your HSA.

Grant said:

So it's been your experience that governments do best in keeping costs down and efficiency up?

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I know that government can influence many things in the economy. Our economy is based on a balanced approach. Unregulated business has proven to be disastrous.

Maenad said:

You don't know me. You do NOT know me. You have no clue where my areas of expertise lie, and to pretend that you do is the height of arrogance!

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I know what you posted and that is what I responded to. I doubt seriously that you are an award winning economist or that you have the resources the CBO has to calculate how Obamacare will effect the economy.

Hairytic said:

I know that government can influence many things in the economy. Our economy is based on a balanced approach. Unregulated business has proven to be disastrous.

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What if we actually held people accountable for their actions? For instance those that sign off on loans they can't afford.

Rocketman said:

What if we actually held people accountable for their actions? For instance those that sign off on loans they can't afford.

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Once we get Wall Street executives to be accountable for their role in crashing the economy, then I will be all for holding main street accountable for their part in the problem. The truth is, Wall Street got by with playing loose and free with investments and crashed the economy and no one was held accountable for that.

roflpublican said:

View attachment 67137763

but hey, don't let this little dose of reality stop your rant.

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what is the actual effective rates of each era

if you think 40% isn't bad you should pay the same rates

nothing is more annoying are constant calls from the many parasites for OTHERS to pay more.

Fisher said:

America is not going green in any serious way. Run the pipeline anywhere else and you will see it connected. Green is an impossibility in today's world in a nation as large as the US. It will take another 100 years of serious R&D for us to get anywhere close to that. The democrats don't like oil because oil likes the GOP. It is a partisan thing, not a fundamental shift in American thought.

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I was being facetious, or ironic, but it seems I'm not very good at it.

You may think it presumptuous of me to be advising Americans or being critical of their policies but in fact the problem with leftists crosses international borders and effects us all everywhere. I battle against American, Canadian and European Leftists because the same consequences of their policies are everywhere and, as interested persons on the freedom of the individuals all over the world, it seems to me we have to stick together. PeteEU gets involved here in the same, hoping to extend the influence of Leftism, in whatever form that takes.

Please feel free to rubbish Canadian leftists all you want, and I certainly won't look at it as an attack against my country.

Hairytic said:

I know that government can influence many things in the economy. Our economy is based on a balanced approach. Unregulated business has proven to be disastrous.

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Which unregulated business are you referring to?

Re: Papa Johns' CEO: Obamacare will increase our costs, reduce employee hours

MaggieD said:

I'm really surprised that any Papa John's Pizza place has 50 full-time employees

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It doesn't matter if they have 50+ full time employees. Papa John's has 50+ full time employees, and so the franchise is not considered a "small company" for Obamacare purposes.

I think this is a downright fib. Plus, it says at their corporate site that franchise places offer those benefits already to their employees -- even the part-time ones. What do you make of that? Better Benefits: Papa John's Restaurants | Papa John's: Better Ingredients. Better Pizza.

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Well, Maggie, I read it, and so I noticed that they don't "get it". Here is the relevant section:

Shift Leader, Manager Designate and Restaurant Team Member Benefits

Part-time team members (shift leaders, drivers & team members) are eligible to participate in the following programs:

Health, Future and Life Benefits

Medical and EAP Insurance
Dental Insurance
Vision Insurance
Short-Term Disability
Hospital Indemnity Insurance
401(k) Plan
Paid Vacation
Term Life and Accidental Death and Dismemberment Insurance

Employee Perks

Direct Deposit
Weekly Paychecks
Flexible Hours
Pizza Discounts
Training and Recognition Programs

Drivers are also eligible for: Tips and daily cash payout for mileage reimbursement

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and so they are eligible to choose to pay for these things. Nor does it say what specific plans this includes, or how much it costs. Do you know many part-time pizza delivery guys who get health insurance through their work? Because I worked restaurants for about 7 years, including two at a five-star steak place, and the only people with health insurance were the general managers and the chefs.


None of which is really relevant to the point of the OP, which is that the increased burden on business will result in less demand for workers.

Re: Papa Johns' CEO: Obamacare will increase our costs, reduce employee hours

Jerry said:

So you're saying there will be a demand for employees who don't need the employer to provide medical coverage? Hmm...looks good for veterans.

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If you live near a VA hospital and are willing to put up with crappy healthcare. No thanks.

TurtleDude said:

what is the actual effective rates of each era

if you think 40% isn't bad you should pay the same rates

nothing is more annoying are constant calls from the many parasites for OTHERS to pay more.

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Well, respectfully to ROFLpublican (and probably many others on this site), he is young. He's in school. As people begin to see greater and greater percentages of their paychecks going to pay their taxes? If they are successful, that is? They will, just as many others, begin to look around and say, "Hey, what a minute here. This isn't right. I've worked my ASS off to get where I am, and the government is taking more and more of my money every year."

Until then, it's all rhetorical because it doesn't effect them. When it becomes about dollars-and-cents (if they are ever that fortunate), they will better understand.

MaggieD said:

Well, respectfully to ROFLpublican (and probably many others on this site), he is young. He's in school. As people begin to see greater and greater percentages of their paychecks going to pay their taxes? If they are successful, that is? They will, just as many others, begin to look around and say, "Hey, what a minute here. This isn't right. I've worked my ASS off to get where I am, and the government is taking more and more of my money every year."

Until then, it's all rhetorical because it doesn't effect them. When it becomes about dollars-and-cents (if they are ever that fortunate), they will better understand.

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until everyone has to pay more taxes when the government spends more, we will get more and more and more government spending because those who aren't paying income taxes are close to having more votes than those of us who do

Hairytic said:

Once we get Wall Street executives to be accountable for their role in crashing the economy, then I will be all for holding main street accountable for their part in the problem. The truth is, Wall Street got by with playing loose and free with investments and crashed the economy and no one was held accountable for that.

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I believe you've been misinformed. If you can explain with some detail how Wall Street did that, and to whose advantage it was, and which laws were broken, you might have a case.

zimmer said:

Obama's Vagina Monologues and idiots who fear Creationists trumped Common Sense.

1992: It's the economy Stupid.
2012: What's an economy? 8% Unemployment... Koooool.... Hey! Where's my free sheet man? Where's Para-sita-claus?

Welcome to Parasite Nation
It's not what your country can do for you,
it's what your country can thieve for you... doo-dah, doo-dah...


Commercial Interlude
Support your Parasite Nation.
Demand someone pay for your crapola today!
Because... They didn't build that.

Brought to you by the Union Of Soviet Socialists of Amerika.

Legal Disclaimer:
We do not take responsibility
for failures due to socialism.
Next time elect a leader who
can implement the system.
Suckers.

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You hate other people dont you? Did you have a horrible childhood or something?

Re: Papa Johns' CEO: Obamacare will increase our costs, reduce employee hours

cpwill said:

None of which is really relevant to the point of the OP, which is that the increased burden on business will result in less demand for workers.

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I won't argue the dollars-and-cents because I'm not sure about one thing: does Obamacare say employers have to fully pay for insurance? Or that it has to be available? And second, I'm not sure you're correct about individual franchises. Can you counter this link?

President Obama’s health-care law will force businesses to buy insurance for their employees or get slapped with a fine. But one category of employers will be spared that expense: businesses with fewer than 50 workers. Many of the roughly 4.5 million businesses that employ fewer than 50 workers are familiar restaurant franchises: Burger King (BKW), McDonalds (MCD), Subway.

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Why Burger King Doesn't Like Obamacare - Businessweek

But I will argue as to whether or not the increased burden on business will result in less demand for workers. If they need people, they need people. If it's the law that they pay for healthcare insurance, then they will begin paying their people less if it's a problem for them. Or they will switch to as many part-time workers as they can (under 30 hours).

I'm willing to say that we don't know what effect this is going to have on our economy. We can guess. We can postulate. But the only way we're going to know for sure is when it's actually implemented.

cpwill said:

If you live near a VA hospital and are willing to put up with crappy healthcare. No thanks.

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Tommy Boy goes to the VA Hospital in Hines, Illinois. He's getting cutting-edge medical treatment for his eyes...he's very happy with the treatment he gets. He had occasion to go to the ER there a while ago -- there wasn't even a wait. I'd say he's extremely pleased with the care he's getting.

Re: Papa Johns' CEO: Obamacare will increase our costs, reduce employee hours

cpwill said:

If you live near a VA hospital and are willing to put up with crappy healthcare. No thanks.

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depends where you live, I have seen mostly very good, and some bad.....
I use the VA clinic in Surprise, AZ for annual physical and lab work as it is done so efficiently....but for all else, I have medicare A and B, Tricare for supplemental, and retired military status for D.

Re: Papa Johns' CEO: Obamacare will increase our costs, reduce employee hours

cpwill said:

If you live near a VA hospital and are willing to put up with crappy healthcare. No thanks.

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TriCare is awesome. Idk what you're talkin about.

If employers are going to start laying off people because they can't afford the health insurance, then that's good news for me because I already have coverage so the employer won't need to provide any. That makes me a more appealing applicant, and maybe moves me off the short list for lay-offs. It could also mean I can get a slightly higher wage....at least until some woman or minority complains, even-though the employer has to buy their insurance while he does not have to buy mine.

Grant said:

I believe you've been misinformed. If you can explain with some detail how Wall Street did that, and to whose advantage it was, and which laws were broken, you might have a case.

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Credit Default Swaps. The banks created a new synthetic market where they packaged together bad debt and sold it to other banks and investors, which essentially removed the risk from their loans. This freed them up to make more and more loans to less and less qualified people. Sub-prime mortgages were handed out by the boatloads. Loans to people who had no business taking out housing loans, much less at the ridiculous interest rates they were being charged. One day the system came collapsing down when people started defaulting on their loans and the market realized that the majority of the CDS's were absolutely worthless.

This was not the only cause of the crisis, but it was the biggest part of it. Though the federal government did play a role, YES, the banks are primarily responsible for the crisis, and we decided to bail their rich asses out.

I believe you were misinformed.

Grant said:

I was being facetious, or ironic, but it seems I'm not very good at it.

You may think it presumptuous of me to be advising Americans or being critical of their policies but in fact the problem with leftists crosses international borders and effects us all everywhere. I battle against American, Canadian and European Leftists because the same consequences of their policies are everywhere and, as interested persons on the freedom of the individuals all over the world, it seems to me we have to stick together. PeteEU gets involved here in the same, hoping to extend the influence of Leftism, in whatever form that takes.

Please feel free to rubbish Canadian leftists all you want, and I certainly won't look at it as an attack against my country.

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I really have no problem with Canadian leftist as long as they do not pretend that the reason they don't need a big military is not because the US next door would defend them and the world knows it.

I don't even mind people being critical of the US from abroad. I just think they need to realize the huge military we pay for saves them the need to have one of their own of that size and scale, which in turn, allows them to be able to afford more social spending. I would mind US leftist a lot less if they actually tried to be effective at the state and local levels instead of buying their power in DC. There shouldn't be a mile of difference between environmentalists and conservationists but there is because conservation require boots on the ground outside the beltway and environmentalists do not protect much of anything except themselves.

Re: Papa Johns' CEO: Obamacare will increase our costs, reduce employee hours

MaggieD said:

I won't argue the dollars-and-cents because I'm not sure about one thing: does Obamacare say employers have to fully pay for insurance? Or that it has to be available?

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They can either "pay for" or they can "get taxed / pay a fee / send more money to the government however you want to describe it" while dumping their employees coverage alltogether.

Given that the tax/fee is significantly less than the cost of insurance, and given that those dumped on the exchanges will be getting Free Money (because there is such a thing as a free lunch) from daddy government to purchase health insurance, Employers who hire large numbers of low-wage employees, but who still try to give them healthcare coverage, will be particularly constrained and forced to dump their people. Especially given that one of Obamacare's more insidious moves is to legally limit the kind of low-cost coverage options such as high-deductible accounts tied to HSA's. That's why 1 in 10 employers are already planning on phasing out their health insurance (before the thing has even gone into effect).

And second, I'm not sure you're correct about individual franchises. Can you counter this link?

Why Burger King Doesn't Like Obamacare - Businessweek

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If McDonalds is not effected by Obamacare, then why do they need a waiver?




Ah, I think I see. The individual Franchiser has to have more than 50 employees - so if you figure the average Papa John's has 25 employees, someone who owns two Papa John's is effected whereas someone who only owns 1 is not.

Which, given that lots of owners own more than one, means this is still pretty bad for the Franchise restaurant business.

...Barr has 23 stores with 421 employees, 109 of whom are full-time. Of those, he provides 30 with health insurance. Barr said he pays 81 percent of their Blue Cross Blue Shield policy, or $4,073 of $5,028 for individuals, more for families, for a total bill of $129,000 a year. Employees pay $995.

Under Obamacare, however, he will have to provide health insurance for all 109 full-time workers, a cost of $444,000, or two and half times more than his current costs. That $315,000 increase is equal to just over half his annual profit, after expenses, or 1.5 percent of sales. As a result, he said, "I'm not paying $444,000."

Providing no insurance would result in a federal fine of $158,000, $29,000 more than he now spends but the lowest cost possible under the Obamacare law. So he now views that as his cap and he'll either cut worker hours or replace them with machines to get his costs down or dump them on the public health exchange and pay the fine. "Every business has a way to eliminate jobs," he said, "but that's not good for them or me."...

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That last paragraph there directly ties into our next conversation which is...

But I will argue as to whether or not the increased burden on business will result in less demand for workers. If they need people, they need people.

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This is sadly not correct. Labor exists on a supply/demand curve, just like everything else. When you increase the cost, you decrease the demand.

Remember back in 2007 when they raised the minimum wage? Do you remember how all of those self-checkout machines started showing up a couple of months later?

Due to labor cost increases, the machines were now cheaper than people. You may also notice that fewer of the remaining lines were open - resulting in longer lines for us customers and even fewer jobs for low education low experience employees. The first workers to get hurt by these kinds of things are almost always the most vulnerable among us.

If it's the law that they pay for healthcare insurance, then they will begin paying their people less if it's a problem for them. Or they will switch to as many part-time workers as they can (under 30 hours).

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Or they will find ways to minimize the now-more-expensive labor in favor of less expensive options. Companies that can move labor overseas will now face death in the marketplace if they don't do so faster than their competition. The girl taking your call-in-order at Papa John's doesn't have to be at the Papa Johns, any more than the guy helping you with tech support has to be at Microsoft HQ.

I'm willing to say that we don't know what effect this is going to have on our economy. We can guess. We can postulate. But the only way we're going to know for sure is when it's actually implemented.

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That is correct. It is always possible that everything we thought we had learned about economics in the last 3 centuries is wrong.

Re: Papa Johns' CEO: Obamacare will increase our costs, reduce employee hours

cpwill said:

This thread (and all the others to follow) is dedicated to the Golden Goose Liberals out there who truly honestly believe that it does not matter what burden you put on business, they will keep on magically producing jobs and tax revenue.

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So then why don't we take the burden off of business and have government run health insurance. And I don't mean socialized medicine. I asked that question earlier in the thread. It's a question, not a statement.

U.S. companies compete with other nations who do not burden their companies with employee healthcare. That seems to me an advantage.

*again, putting on my asbestos under wear for asking what might be a naive question*

EDIT: I didn't ask this question before. This is a thread with nearly identical title to another.