Europe’s economy is reeling and unemployment could remain high for years...

[zimmer]

Europe’s economy is reeling and unemployment could remain high for years, EU warns as it slashes growth forecast | Economy | News | Financial Post

Europe’s economy is still reeling and unemployment could remain high for years in spite of the progress made in solving the debt crisis, the European Union warned Wednesday as it downgraded its forecasts for the 27-country bloc.

Even powerhouse Germany is expected to eke out just 0.8% growth now, compared with 1.7% in the spring.

We are the EU now too.

 

[Muddy Creek]

We are the EU now too.

Only because the republicans push for slashing more jobs and raising taxes on the poor....while cutting them for the rich....that's what the EU is doing...it's called austerity and it's failing.

 

[zimmer]

Only because the republicans push for slashing more jobs and raising taxes on the poor....while cutting them for the rich....that's what the EU is doing...it's called austerity and it's failing.

The poor don't pay taxes, and that's the problem with a Communist Manifesto inspired system of taxation; it's used as a wedge to divide.

 

[Helix]

sounds like a great argument against austerity implemented too quickly. when we do it, it has to be phased in slowly enough for the economy to recover around it.

 

[Deuce]

The poor don't pay taxes, and that's the problem with a Communist Manifesto inspired system of taxation; it's used as a wedge to divide.

Let me guess. You think 47% of Americans don't pay taxes.

 

[Hatuey]

The poor don't pay taxes, and that's the problem with a Communist Manifesto inspired system of taxation; it's used as a wedge to divide.

Why do you lie? Holy ****. As a kid, didn't your mother tell you not to lie so much? If she didn't, I will: Quit ****ing lying.

 

[LowDown]

Why do you lie? Holy ****. As a kid, didn't your mother tell you not to lie so much? If she didn't, I will: Quit ****ing lying.

I think what he means is that the poor don't pay federal income taxes, and you know perfectly well that's what he meant.

 

[LowDown]

Only because the republicans push for slashing more jobs and raising taxes on the poor....while cutting them for the rich....that's what the EU is doing...it's called austerity and it's failing.

I'd be in favor of taxing wealth. I'd love to see what Soros, Gates, Buffett, all those Hollywood types, etc., say to a proposal to take, say, 5% of everything they own every year. The country could generate a lot of revenue that way, possible enough to pay off all the debt. This would only apply to the super rich, of course. And it would also apply to big foundations and other repositories of liberal cash.

Ask your rich liberal buddies and see what they say.

 

[Hatuey]

I think what he means is that the poor don't pay federal income taxes, and you know perfectly well that's what he meant.

Ah - you read minds. No he said "the poor don't pay taxes". That's an outright lie.

 

[Rainman05]

Europe is always suffering growth in the winter because most European countries are not energy independent at gas.

 

[American]

I think what he means is that the poor don't pay federal income taxes, and you know perfectly well that's what he meant.

Yeah, but it works great when your purpose on a forum is to make arguments based on clase and race.

 

[Paul Austin]

sounds like a great argument against austerity implemented too quickly. when we do it, it has to be phased in slowly enough for the economy to recover around it.

I guess a lot of it depends on if you get a choice or not, I mean Im sure Greece would have loved to take things slower but there comes a time when you've run up so much debt that you run out of people to borrow off & then its a case of beggars cant be choosers, & if you want the money you have to jump through the hoops you're told to jump through.

I think its even more painfull in a country like Greece where so many people are now dependant on the state, & the provisions that it provides that every cut must feel personally painfull.

 

[PeteEU]

We are the EU now too.

You would only have been the EU if Romney had won. Austerity is killing the economy in Europe in the short term.. hopefully only the short term.

 

[Helix]

I guess a lot of it depends on if you get a choice or not, I mean Im sure Greece would have loved to take things slower but there comes a time when you've run up so much debt that you run out of people to borrow off & then its a case of beggars cant be choosers, & if you want the money you have to jump through the hoops you're told to jump through.

I think its even more painfull in a country like Greece where so many people are now dependant on the state, & the provisions that it provides that every cut must feel personally painfull.

we aren't Greece or Spain yet. if we start now, we can probably implement it gradually. however, it is still going to have to include every socioeconomic class, not just those who are collecting entitlements.

 

[Fisher]

I guess a lot of it depends on if you get a choice or not, I mean Im sure Greece would have loved to take things slower but there comes a time when you've run up so much debt that you run out of people to borrow off & then its a case of beggars cant be choosers, & if you want the money you have to jump through the hoops you're told to jump through.

I think its even more painfull in a country like Greece where so many people are now dependant on the state, & the provisions that it provides that every cut must feel personally painfull.

That is the rub of it. America had a chance to make the slow adjustment and just elected not to. Now the writing is on the wall. Recession coming; Japan/China going to become borrowing nations in the next ten years; Europe is not going to have money to lend. I guess something magical is going to happen in Sri Lanka to make them the world's next bank because if it doesn't, American austerity is going to be worse than Greece because we have no other countries to carry our declining currency for us.

 

[Paul Austin]

however, it is still going to have to include every socioeconomic class, not just those who are collecting entitlements.

Thats one of the problems Europe faces, I mean European government spends a lot more on the poor than they do on the rich so they poor are the ones who feel the greater cuts.

I mean you can raise the taxes on the richer residents but history shows that if you raise it beyond a certain threshold that revenue actually declines so that in a case like Greece the more you borrow the more you have to pay back and the more you have to pay back the more cuts you have to make and the more you do the more the poor are the recipients of those cuts.

 

[Helix]

Thats one of the problems Europe faces, I mean European government spends a lot more on the poor than they do on the rich so they poor are the ones who feel the greater cuts.

I mean you can raise the taxes on the richer residents but history shows that if you raise it beyond a certain threshold that revenue actually declines so that in a case like Greece the more you borrow the more you have to pay back and the more you have to pay back the more cuts you have to make and the more you do the more the poor are the recipients of those cuts.

i agree. there is certainly a point of diminishing returns on the Laffer curve. it's my opinion that the individual marginal rates in the US aren't at the far right end of the graph right now, though.

we can't do it by tax increases alone, and we can't do it by austerity alone. it has to be a combination, and it has to be implemented in a way that doesn't slow economic growth. it will be complicated, and i'm not convinced that we'll do it in time, because it has the potential to be very politically costly in the short term.

 

[zimmer]

Let me guess. You think 47% of Americans don't pay taxes.

Graduated taxation... right out of the Commi Manifesto.

Ideal for class warfare poison. Socialists love it...

 

[zimmer]

I think what he means is that the poor don't pay federal income taxes, and you know perfectly well that's what he meant.

The leftists are always seeking ways to get around reality.

 

[zimmer]

You would only have been the EU if Romney had won. Austerity is killing the economy in Europe in the short term.. hopefully only the short term.

You mean facing financial reality... cutting up the credit card is a problem? You think the solution is to keep piling up debt on the card and passing it to the next generation to pay?

That's responsible.

 

[PeteEU]

You mean facing financial reality... cutting up the credit card is a problem? You think the solution is to keep piling up debt on the card and passing it to the next generation to pay?

That's responsible.

Oh I agree, but not during a time when the private sector is contracting or not growing much to counter act the cutting. Everything has its time. What many right wing European governments are doing is suicide in the short run at a minimum if not at the medium run as well. Even the Germans are seeing that demanding deep cuts to public budgets in Spain, Italy, Greece, Ireland, and elsewhere is not solving the overall problem of the economy and in fact is making things much worse and it is spreading to Germany it self.

We need labor reforms which will lead to jobs and growth and THEN we can deal much easier with our supposed debt problems. The only way we can get out of this, is by growing the private sector and preventing the private sector goes nuts on greed yet again like it did the last decade. We dont want to bail out the banks yet again or other industries because they cant keep their greedmeter in check.

I fully understand that many labor laws in many European countries are brain-dead and need to be reformed... will they is another matter. In Spain the right wing has full power and they have yet to push through new reforms on top of those that were already in place.. it aint enough.

Unions need to get real, but so do the private sector. Unions need to accept that wage cuts and pension reforms are needed, but the private sector has to accept that they cant get their own way either. Slavery is not legal.

And having companies like Apple getting away with paying next to no taxes has to stop. Profit on goods sold in a country should have taxes paid on that profit in that country.. not moved around to get the best tax deal. It is immoral and frankly a good part of the problem in both the US and Europe.

There are many other issues of course, but they do not include universal healthcare or our pension systems. They do include lack of competition in certain areas of Europe (Italy comes to mind) and in certain industries (Big Pharama) and they need to be solved. Cutting red tape and making it easier to start business and run business must be done but also the protection of the worker and their rights must be upheld.

Now cutting the public purse drastically so that the budget goes in surplus (in theory) during a suffering economy... does not work and never has.. it only makes the problems much worse. That is what Romney wanted to do. That is what is going to happen with the fiscal cliff, a cliff that the American right is going ape**** about right now and trying to prevent as long as they can keep their massive military spending.

Time and time again through history when a country has tried to cut the public sector to reduce debt or/and deficit in a down economy the end result has been to extend the down economy for a very long time. It is the snowball effect basically.

 

[zimmer]

Oh I agree, but not during a time when the private sector is contracting or not growing much to counter act the cutting. Everything has its time. What many right wing European governments are doing is suicide in the short run at a minimum if not at the medium run as well. Even the Germans are seeing that demanding deep cuts to public budgets in Spain, Italy, Greece, Ireland, and elsewhere is not solving the overall problem of the economy and in fact is making things much worse and it is spreading to Germany it self.

Why not cut government to the bone along with regulations & taxes... and grow out of the storm?
It works... Socialists just have to realize their supposed solutions don't work.
Let the free market set prices instead of artificially inflating them and having business leave for more fertile shores.
Bust unions and their idiotic demands and "right"s.

When I hear my German friends complain about funding Greece... I laugh in their faces. Then I say... what?
What is the problem?
This is merely the Sozialmarktwirtschaft on an EU wide scale.
Greece is the poor downtrodden segment of society oppressed by the wealthier states (though they've farked themselves like all socialist EU states)
It is your responsibility to pay for them and let them do with your money as they wish.
Why so greedy? Heartless?