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Pro-oil Canada fights U.S. environmental groups

I have a bridge to sell you. Interested?

Sorry. I'm not one to fall hook line and sinker with I see a puke-inducing 'feel good' Suncor commercial. All I have to do is visit a polluted city and I will develop an instantaneous sinus infection. Been that way all of my life, and I am almost certain it's what will kill me in the end.

You know, I could say a lot of things here, but I will leave you with this. A few years back I watched a documentary on how some people in West Virginia were upset because environmentalists were forcing their mountain top coal mining jobs out of business. The enviromentalists were called every name under the sun, and told to mind their freaking business by many, including the featured man and wife who lived in a most pristine setting. No doubt, times were tough for the couple money-wise. The reporter then asked how they would feel if the mountains that surrounded their beautiful home were chosen to be blasted. Without missing a beat, the husband blurted, "I'd do everything to stop it." (I paraphrase to the best of my memory, but the same gist). So basically, it's all okay, as long as it does not happen in my neighbourhood. :roll:

And then there is this, all supported by government agencies.http://www.nma.org/pdf/fact_sheets/cct.pdf
 
But heck, harming their health is no big deal, eh? If you don't believe the averse effects that these industrial practices have on our health, then you are either naive or uninformed.

Should we ban smoking and alcohol? Both of those are very harmful to health. The opposite is also true, there are many naive people that are uninformed and believe tons of hype and overplay everything when it comes to health and adverse effects (especially the environment).

Still, we need to be maximizing our resources, the oil will either come from North America or the Middle East, I would rather not outsource that production and would like to be energy independent. Renewables are things of the future, but gas, oil, and natural gas are what we have today and we need to maximize that.
 
And then there is this, all supported by government agencies.http://www.nma.org/pdf/fact_sheets/cct.pdf

Fossil-fuel makeover: 'Clean' and 'green' is as polluting as ever
Coal and oil companies are pouring millions of dollars to style themselves as clean and 'green.' But just because they say it doesn't make it true.

By Phaedra Ellis-Lamkins, Contributor / November 3, 2012

In this 2011 file photo, exhaust rises from smokestacks in front of piles of coal at NRG Energy's W.A. Parish Electric Generating Station in Thompsons, Texas. Fossil fuel industries are pouring millions of dollars into revamping their image as clean and 'green.'

If you watch any of the dozens of recent coal, oil or gas advertisements, you would never guess what these industries are really up to. They paint a pretty green picture of their industries, making claims like “we strengthen communities” and pushing forward fictional concepts like “clean coal.”

But calling something clean and green doesn’t always mean it is. The sad truth is that polluting coal, oil, and gas companies are pouring millions of dollars to redefine their industries as healthy, clean, and green. They’re sweeping their dirty practices (and deadly coal ash) under the rug. Misleading advertising campaigns are just the latest efforts to cover up for the fact that these companies are blocking clean energy jobs, unraveling basic air and water protections, and setting Americans back decades.


Fossil-fuel makeover: 'Clean' and 'green' is as polluting as ever - CSMonitor.com
 
Should we ban smoking and alcohol? Both of those are very harmful to health. The opposite is also true, there are many naive people that are uninformed and believe tons of hype and overplay everything when it comes to health and adverse effects (especially the environment).

I can make a choice to not smoke, or go to a non-smoking establishment. Thanks to the non-smoking Nazis, we now have this choice!
However, I don't have a choice on all of the other air that I breathe. Or the tap water that I drink, for the matter.

As for your other point, I can tell you from a perspective that I have personally experienced. My parents were forced to leave my birth place because of sickness brought on by pollution. It's a problem I still experience.

Still, we need to be maximizing our resources, the oil will either come from North America or the Middle East, I would rather not outsource that production and would like to be energy independent. Renewables are things of the future, but gas, oil, and natural gas are what we have today and we need to maximize that.

Nenewables will always be considered things of the future as long as we 'have the resources' to keep us going the traditional way. This is an excellent article, please read:

Fossil-fuel makeover: 'Clean' and 'green' is as polluting as ever - CSMonitor.com
 
I oppose the notion of selling the US more oil. We need to re-nationalise it and sell only the surplus after supplying our own market. There is no reason our gas prices should be fluctuating due to stupidity in the Middle East when we have enough oil in Alberta to supply ourselves.

This is the plan we need.
 
I can make a choice to not smoke, or go to a non-smoking establishment. Thanks to the non-smoking Nazis, we now have this choice!
However, I don't have a choice on all of the other air that I breathe. Or the tap water that I drink, for the matter.

As for your other point, I can tell you from a perspective that I have personally experienced. My parents were forced to leave my birth place because of sickness brought on by pollution. It's a problem I still experience.



Nenewables will always be considered things of the future as long as we 'have the resources' to keep us going the traditional way. This is an excellent article, please read:

Fossil-fuel makeover: 'Clean' and 'green' is as polluting as ever - CSMonitor.com

That's a political tract and has nothing to do with science.
 
It's still Alberta's oil.

Just because it is in Alberta doesn't make it solely Alberta's. Provinces don't have nearly as much as States, and if the Federal gov't wanted to nationalise the resource a province has, then the province really no choice. The rest of the country could benefit so much by tapping into Alberta's energy.
 
Just because it is in Alberta doesn't make it solely Alberta's. Provinces don't have nearly as much as States, and if the Federal gov't wanted to nationalise the resource a province has, then the province really no choice. The rest of the country could benefit so much by tapping into Alberta's energy.

That would not be realistic for any political party.

Nonetheless it is a danger that, like Trudeau's NEP, the Feds might try to seize Alberta's assets. At that point separation would look a lot more attractive to many Western Canadians. Western Canadians identify with Western Canada much more so than Ontario, Quebec or the Maritimes, In fact they probably identify more with the Northwest states, outside of hockey season. The cultures in Canada and US tend to run north and south moreso than east to west.
 
That's a political tract and has nothing to do with science.

No, the vomit-inducing 'we care ads' from companies that are responsible for ****ing up our water, climate, mountains and the very air we breathe. Love this bit:

 
It's also my philosophy, too. It's time we look towards the future.

I’m not against looking to the future, in fact I’m highly in favor of it. My problem lies in when is that future going to take place ? There is nothing wrong with doing what we can do to ease or even stop or need of imported oil, while we explore other energy sources.

Why should the American people suffer with 4 or 5 dollar a gallon gas prices when we don’t have to? If we up production of oil in this country, it can only help us now … and in the future … as we develop new technology and need less oil, then we end up with a valuable export that brings more money into our country, until that happens we lower prices, add the much needed good paying jobs and reduce our need of foreign oil …. But I guess in the minds of some those are all bad things
 
I’m not against looking to the future, in fact I’m highly in favor of it. My problem lies in when is that future going to take place ? There is nothing wrong with doing what we can do to ease or even stop or need of imported oil, while we explore other energy sources.

Why should the American people suffer with 4 or 5 dollar a gallon gas prices when we don’t have to? If we up production of oil in this country, it can only help us now … and in the future … as we develop new technology and need less oil, then we end up with a valuable export that brings more money into our country, until that happens we lower prices, add the much needed good paying jobs and reduce our need of foreign oil …. But I guess in the minds of some those are all bad things

Do you seriously think the price of gas will go down if the domestic product goes up? It will not. The only viable way price of gas will go down (aside from the nickel and diming gas stations do) is if people use less. So, unless you trade in your SUV/truck for some small compact, take out your bike, or move closer to the city, you won't be helping the cause.

Also, the future of energy will not get a leg up until we are close to drying up. It's either human nature or the power that oil companies have. Climate change will not be taken seriously until it affects enough people directly, so shoot, why care now?
 
Do you seriously think the price of gas will go down if the domestic product goes up? It will not. The only viable way price of gas will go down (aside from the nickel and diming gas stations do) is if people use less. So, unless you trade in your SUV/truck for some small compact, take out your bike, or move closer to the city, you won't be helping the cause.

Also, the future of energy will not get a leg up until we are close to drying up. It's either human nature or the power that oil companies have. Climate change will not be taken seriously until it affects enough people directly, so shoot, why care now?

Yeah I do feel it will drop prices, in fact I feel that the first time we publicly say that we will be exploring and opening new areas for drilling, that will in and off it’s self begin to bring down prices.

I’m not sure if you are right about the future of energy, I do agree that the past says that we won’t do anything if the prices drop back down, but I think (maybe it’s hope) that people are looking at things differently now then they were in the 70’s.

I was just a young man in the 70’s and as soon as we got rid of the waiting lines I wasn’t any more concerned about it then the next guy, but seeing the price rise and fall on the whims and wars in the middle east, is sickening, to say nothing of costly for Americans and in the times we are currently in it’s hurting the middle and lower classes a lot.

So yes I want us to use everything we got right now, and wouldn’t even be against placing a small tax on gas or oil that can only be used to fund research in new energy sources.

So while I still say we need to find and drill for all the oil we can right now … because it will lower the price, it will create jobs and it will give us a future export … we need to make sure that we keep working on future clean energy.

Right now .. Today .. In this country we have serious problems, jobs is a huge one. Drilling, building pipelines, will put people back to work, putting people back to work help funds our government. More money into our government helps us on our way to getting a balanced budget . We need to take care of todays problems, and this time not look away from the future ..
 
Yeah I do feel it will drop prices, in fact I feel that the first time we publicly say that we will be exploring and opening new areas for drilling, that will in and off it’s self begin to bring down prices.

I’m not sure if you are right about the future of energy, I do agree that the past says that we won’t do anything if the prices drop back down, but I think (maybe it’s hope) that people are looking at things differently now then they were in the 70’s.

I was just a young man in the 70’s and as soon as we got rid of the waiting lines I wasn’t any more concerned about it then the next guy, but seeing the price rise and fall on the whims and wars in the middle east, is sickening, to say nothing of costly for Americans and in the times we are currently in it’s hurting the middle and lower classes a lot.

So yes I want us to use everything we got right now, and wouldn’t even be against placing a small tax on gas or oil that can only be used to fund research in new energy sources.

So while I still say we need to find and drill for all the oil we can right now … because it will lower the price, it will create jobs and it will give us a future export … we need to make sure that we keep working on future clean energy.

Right now .. Today .. In this country we have serious problems, jobs is a huge one. Drilling, building pipelines, will put people back to work, putting people back to work help funds our government. More money into our government helps us on our way to getting a balanced budget . We need to take care of todays problems, and this time not look away from the future ..

The factor that you overlook is that the US and Canada have the highest lift and extraction costs in the world.
 
The factor that you overlook is that the US and Canada have the highest lift and extraction costs in the world.

The U.S. and Canada have more regulations in place than anywhere else in the world, which creates more overhead for the companies drilling and producing the oil and gas.
 
Do you seriously think the price of gas will go down if the domestic product goes up? It will not. The only viable way price of gas will go down (aside from the nickel and diming gas stations do) is if people use less. So, unless you trade in your SUV/truck for some small compact, take out your bike, or move closer to the city, you won't be helping the cause.

Also, the future of energy will not get a leg up until we are close to drying up. It's either human nature or the power that oil companies have. Climate change will not be taken seriously until it affects enough people directly, so shoot, why care now?

Prices may, or may not go down, the argument that it won't has more leaks in it than the Polish Navy, however the unemployment rate will definitely go down if drilling and production goes up.
 
The factor that you overlook is that the US and Canada have the highest lift and extraction costs in the world.

It doesn’t matter, oil is a global product, the more of it there is the price goes down, Do you know what OPEC is ??? Have you followed how they take their production up or down to keep the prices where they want them ??? The more oil there is on the market that is not produced by OPEC the less they control. Once the word was to get out that we (the US) was to oo into full drilling mode, they would immediately try to increase their “cheaper” production to try and drop the price so that it was unprofitable for us to keep drilling. Flooding the market with this cheaper oil … will do exactly what ??? Maybe drive down prices ??
 
But heck, harming their health is no big deal, eh? If you don't believe the averse effects that these industrial practices have on our health, then you are either naive or uninformed.

Clean air and water is overrated.
 
Yeah I do feel it will drop prices, in fact I feel that the first time we publicly say that we will be exploring and opening new areas for drilling, that will in and off it’s self begin to bring down prices.

I’m not sure if you are right about the future of energy, I do agree that the past says that we won’t do anything if the prices drop back down, but I think (maybe it’s hope) that people are looking at things differently now then they were in the 70’s.

I was just a young man in the 70’s and as soon as we got rid of the waiting lines I wasn’t any more concerned about it then the next guy, but seeing the price rise and fall on the whims and wars in the middle east, is sickening, to say nothing of costly for Americans and in the times we are currently in it’s hurting the middle and lower classes a lot.

So yes I want us to use everything we got right now, and wouldn’t even be against placing a small tax on gas or oil that can only be used to fund research in new energy sources.

So while I still say we need to find and drill for all the oil we can right now … because it will lower the price, it will create jobs and it will give us a future export … we need to make sure that we keep working on future clean energy.

Right now .. Today .. In this country we have serious problems, jobs is a huge one. Drilling, building pipelines, will put people back to work, putting people back to work help funds our government. More money into our government helps us on our way to getting a balanced budget . We need to take care of todays problems, and this time not look away from the future ..


The price of gas will never go back to where it was 5-8 years ago, let alone prior. It's just not going to happen. Why? Well sharon hit on an important point. THe oil that is left is the more difficult and costly type to extract. When oil was first discovered in the Middle East, it freakin' gushed. It does not gush any more (at least like it used to) but it's still much easier to extract than our tar sands and shale oil.

Now add to that the demand aspect keeps on growing every year, and it will be hard to keep up, especially since it will take much longer to extract and process. Just look at the estimated ANWAR reserve. In most cases, it's determined that there's enough oil to keep the US going for only 3 years. Is it would all that effort and destruction just for that???

I realize that a lot of people do not read links, but I so hope you do with the one below. It's an easy read and does a great job of explaining gas prices and other things that are crucial:

HowStuffWorks "How Gas Prices Work"

Also, if you have Netflix or a video store close by, I highly recommend the doc "Gasland." Excellent and informative.

Gasland: A film by Josh Fox
 
The U.S. and Canada have more regulations in place than anywhere else in the world, which creates more overhead for the companies drilling and producing the oil and gas.

Yet they still **** up like crazy. Jeepers, when will their careless destruction end?
 
Prices may, or may not go down, the argument that it won't has more leaks in it than the Polish Navy, however the unemployment rate will definitely go down if drilling and production goes up.

Unemployment would go down even lower if there was a push towards alternate energy research. Just sayin'.
 
No, the vomit-inducing 'we care ads' from companies that are responsible for ****ing up our water, climate, mountains and the very air we breathe. Love this bit:



I don't know where you live but it's very clean here in BC. Lots of work here too!
 
Do you seriously think the price of gas will go down if the domestic product goes up? It will not. The only viable way price of gas will go down (aside from the nickel and diming gas stations do) is if people use less. So, unless you trade in your SUV/truck for some small compact, take out your bike, or move closer to the city, you won't be helping the cause.

Also, the future of energy will not get a leg up until we are close to drying up. It's either human nature or the power that oil companies have. Climate change will not be taken seriously until it affects enough people directly, so shoot, why care now?

Competition brings down prices.
 
Unemployment would go down even lower if there was a push towards alternate energy research. Just sayin'.

Who would be hiring the employees and paying them?

There are private companies now working on alternate sources of energy and the quest will continue. But until that happens the world needs the energy we have access to.
 
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