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AP poll: Majority harbor prejudice against blacks

This is probably true. That doesn't mean that we should simply ignore irrational prejudice and allow it to fester unchecked.

agreed, as long as we are talking about ALL irrational prejudice and not just that against one particular group


Although there are still plenty of ways that racism is de facto institutionalized...the way we assign students to schools, the attitude of the criminal justice system towards minorities, etc.

we assign students to schools based on the district where they live. nobody, at least in my area, gets bussed anymore. as for the criminal justice systems attitude towards minorities....maybe to some degree but not enough to account for the massive over-representation of minorities among the criminal population. when ~6% of the population accounts for 40% of the prison population, you can't blame that solely on "racism"
 
agreed, as long as we are talking about ALL irrational prejudice and not just that against one particular group




we assign students to schools based on the district where they live. nobody, at least in my area, gets bussed anymore. as for the criminal justice systems attitude towards minorities....maybe to some degree but not enough to account for the massive over-representation of minorities among the criminal population. when ~6% of the population accounts for 40% of the prison population, you can't blame that solely on "racism"

I was listening to a black radio station that was talking about this and one conservative black noted that when 95% of the blacks vote for a guy who constantly calls for tax hikes on successful people and promises more handouts that creates a legitimate distaste for "our race"

and yes the crime issue has also caused resentment as well. More than a few liberal college kids I knew when I was a city prosecutor sounded like Klanners after they had been mugged, assaulted etc by black youths
 
what is odd about that is that it is not just white people who have that mental association. why is it that almost every other group on the planet has members that are prejudiced against african americans? hell....there are even african africans who are prejudiced against african americans and they are the ones who sold them into slavery in the first place.

Well I think the argument is that the negative association is somehow fed to us through society - movies, tv, news etc.

It's more or less Pavlov's dog. Let's suppose a buddy of yours plays a little jingle and then socks you in the arm. If he does that again and again, over time your brain starts to associate that jingle with getting punched. So as soon as you hear that jingle your brain reacts by making you feel fear, you jump up, look around for you a-hole buddy because you feel like he's gonna punch in the arm. Even if he's not around, your brain still has that association and you're gonna feel uneasy whenever you hear that jingle.

In the same way, if I show you a picture of a black person and then show you an image of something bad like violence or theft or something, your brain is gonna start to form an association. Eventually, just like with the jingle, every time you seen the image of black person there's some part of your brain that's immediately going to react by thinking of the negative things that your brain has learned to associate with "african-american".

So if white people are getting that association from the media - movies, tv, news etc - then it's possible that blacks are also getting that same association from the media just like white people are.

Now, the important question is how much that association affects our decisions. That's hard to figure out. I doubt it plays a very big role to be honest. A good possible example I can think of where it might be shown to have an influence is suppose you get on the subway and there are only two seats open - one next to a white person and one next to a black person. Without giving it much thought you sit down next to the white person. Afterwards if I ask you why you sat down next to Steve and not Jamarcus (hey, come on now, it's my story I can pick whatever names I want ;)), you'll probably just say "i dunno I just felt like that seat was better". Part of the reason that seat "felt" better could be that when you looked at the black guy, that little part of your brain went "no! black guy = bad" and that influenced which seat "felt" better to you.
 
I was listening to a black radio station that was talking about this and one conservative black noted that when 95% of the blacks vote for a guy who constantly calls for tax hikes on successful people and promises more handouts that creates a legitimate distaste for "our race"

and yes the crime issue has also caused resentment as well. More than a few liberal college kids I knew when I was a city prosecutor sounded like Klanners after they had been mugged, assaulted etc by black youths


as I said in the other thread. I have been all around the world during my military career. I have met iraqis, iranians, pakistanis, indians, kuwaitis, chinese, japanese, koreans, vietnamese, mexicans, peruvians, hondurans, canadians, germans, russians, italians, bosnians, scots, eqyptians and even africans that are "prejudiced" against "african americans". if lots of people don't like you....maybe the problem is you and not all of them :shrug:
 
Well I think the argument is that the negative association is somehow fed to us through society - movies, tv, news etc..

that doesn't explain why people in foreign countries that are not "exposed" to our society seem to have the same negative associations
 
that doesn't explain why people in foreign countries that are not "exposed" to our society seem to have the same negative associations

Maybe they're getting it through their media as well.
 
as I said in the other thread. I have been all around the world during my military career. I have met iraqis, iranians, pakistanis, indians, kuwaitis, chinese, japanese, koreans, vietnamese, mexicans, peruvians, hondurans, canadians, germans, russians, italians, bosnians, scots, eqyptians and even africans that are "prejudiced" against "african americans". if lots of people don't like you....maybe the problem is you and not all of them :shrug:

well when I was law student one of my better friends was a guy from Ghana who was a post doctoral fellow. he used to laugh at American blacks who pretended to be "Africans" especially those who had adopted African sounding names. Indeed he saw some speaker who was whining about "colonialism" having the first name of one tribal group and the last name of another noting that in west africa those two groups had been warring for decades. He noted it would be the same as someone in the Middle East going by Abdullah Goldstein
 
A good possible example I can think of where it might be shown to have an influence is suppose you get on the subway and there are only two seats open - one next to a white person and one next to a black person. Without giving it much thought you sit down next to the white person. Afterwards if I ask you why you sat down next to Steve and not Jamarcus (hey, come on now, it's my story I can pick whatever names I want ;)), you'll probably just say "i dunno I just felt like that seat was better". Part of the reason that seat "felt" better could be that when you looked at the black guy, that little part of your brain went "no! black guy = bad" and that influenced which seat "felt" better to you.

or maybe it is just because people (regardless of race) are more comfortable around other people who look like them. same subway, same two seats....who do you think a black person is going to sit by?

who is the asian lady going to sit by? Chance or Chun Li?

who is the mexican dude going to sit by? Leroy or Juan?

for that matter....who is a lady going to sit by? Max or Marilyn?
 
Maybe they're getting it through their media as well.

oh yeah, it's a global conspiracy by all the various country's media to promote racism against blacks :roll:
 
or maybe it is just because people (regardless of race) are more comfortable around other people who look like them. same subway, same two seats....who do you think a black person is going to sit by?

who is the asian lady going to sit by? Chance or Chun Li?

who is the mexican dude going to sit by? Leroy or Juan?

for that matter....who is a lady going to sit by? Max or Marilyn?

Well, that association is only a single component of many things that ultimately influence what seat "feels" better overall. I agree that most people probably feel more comfortable around members of their own race. But that just further supports the idea that people have racial preferences.
 
oh yeah, it's a global conspiracy by all the various country's media to promote racism against blacks :roll:

Eyeroll indeed. That IS a very silly idea.
 
Well, that association is only a single component of many things that ultimately influence what seat "feels" better overall. I agree that most people probably feel more comfortable around members of their own race. But that just further supports the idea that people have racial preferences.

and that is my point. i think it is more that people have racial preferences for those who are like themselves rather than having a negative attitude for any particular different race.

I happen to prefer strawberry ice cream over chocolate....that doesn't mean I am prejudiced against chocolate ;)
 
what it shows is a mental association. your brain, and mine, are apparently wired such that we tend to associate "african-american" faces with "bad" stuff and "european-american" faces with "good" stuff.

How much those associations, if at all, affect our decisions is unknown.

Actually, according to the test, I'm wired the other way around.

I think this is because I happened to be faster on some parts than others. I don't think its significant.
 
and that is my point. i think it is more that people have racial preferences for those who are like themselves rather than having a negative attitude for any particular different race.

First of all, why? What, do you think, causes people to prefer their own race?

Second of all, I think there are lots of factors that contribute to how we feel about different races overall. The negative associations of the test I posted are just one component. And that's only the sub-conscious part. When we start to factor in our conscious beliefs it all gets way more complicated.

I happen to prefer strawberry ice cream over chocolate....that doesn't mean I am prejudiced against chocolate ;)

No, it just means you have bad taste in ice cream. Mint chocolate chip is the Master Flavor!:lol:

Mint Power! Mint Power! Mint Power!
 
Eyeroll indeed. That IS a very silly idea.

so can you then explain why people in countries like iraq who have never been exposed to western media have more negative attitude towards blacks than whites? their media portrays all westerners as infidels.

I visited a small village in Iraq where the people had no access to any media from the outside world at all, they didn't even have electricity or running water and most, if not all, of them were illiterate. and the village elder refused to speak with my XO and would only speak with me (even though the XO was a Major and I was a Captain) when I asked why, the translator told me that the elder didn't trust black people and he had never met a white or black person ever. so where did his distrust come from?

is it an evolutionary hold over from the caveman days when it was more dangerous at night in the dark than it was during the day in the light?

could it be as simple as that? dark is associated with night and danger and therefore people with dark skin are associated with that primitive fear of the dark?
 
Actually, according to the test, I'm wired the other way around.

I think this is because I happened to be faster on some parts than others. I don't think its significant.

Wait. So what did it say your results were at the end?


If it says you showed preference for Europeans, that means you were faster at putting "good" things and "european" faces in the same column than putting "good" things and "african" faces in the same column.

If you were the opposite, than that is very unusual and indicates you have a negative association towards whites. Basically, you hate crackers! :lol:
 
the school I did my graduate work at had "black fraternities". something I had not seen at Yale. They would always self segregate in the dining halls. I coached a varsity sport and asked some of my athletes what was up. I had Asian, hispanic, Jewish-American, Canadian and white kids on my team. All of them said that the blacks at this school tended to do that. I never understood that. In grad and law school race was not an issue. We didn't have that many black students or Asian students but they didn't isolate themselves. But apparently in the undergraduate departments there was a black created apartheid.
 
Ann Coulter was on the Bill Maher show recently and said “real racism,” for the most part, no longer exists in the United States.



Poll results

Academic analysis


So far comments I've read are saying this is nothing more than blatant propaganda on the part of the Obama campaign, an attempt to 'shame' ignorant white folks into voting for that black guy -- I so luvs me the True Believers :roll:
Oh, I see, so if we don't re-elect Obama...we're racist.
 
I wish that were true, but I think that a pretty solid majority of our population is racist, to some degree. I don't think that necessarily means that they consciously dislike a certain race and/or consciously believe themselves to be superior. With many people, it's much more subtle than that and they don't even realize they're doing it. For example, if someone acts/speaks differently around a black colleague than around a white colleague because they've subconsciously made some assumptions about the person based on their race, that's still racism...even if they don't mean to do it.

I don't think this kind of racism is necessarily even a character flaw. It's just a human foible, that people should be aware of so that they can correct it when they catch themselves doing it.

Obviously you don't even know what racism is.

There are other concepts you're tossing around - like being prejudiced . . . but the concept of making generalizations using race as a 'starting point' isn't bad unless you're closed-minded or overtly negative and refuse to change your generalization even AFTER presented with disproving facts and evidence.

In a few of my business courses we've done nothing but spend time learning about business-conduct in other cultures via generalizations and conclusions. It's not racism to do so - lest everyone in the entire world is racist (by your definition - we ALL are). The key is to keep an open mind. "this is a general guideline based on what most people experience" - it is not the same as "they're all like this - so stupid."

Does that make sense?

Just because someone uses race as a component of identification or in an effort to understand someone's lifestyle or culture doesn't mean they're doing it negatively and with viciousness. . . or that it's something to be avoided.

Race is synonymous with culture to most people - and so I think that's where many people get confused on it all. Which is understandable. It's complicated, the way we apply these concepts in the US.

Now - what's with this:
For example, if someone acts/speaks differently around a black colleague than around a white colleague because they've subconsciously made some assumptions about the person based on their race, that's still racism...even if they don't mean to do it.
Maybe - just maybe - did you ever consider that said individual is possibly trying to fit together better in a group or with another person? If someone hangs out with me and starts talking (I don't know what my accent is) - but like me . . . why is that a race-thing. Maybe it's a cultural response? Maybe it's a mental safety-response in which they're trying not to feel so 'different' than who they're with.

Why - if someone does that - do you think it's race related or a bad thing?

Maybe it helps both people feel like they have more in common?

:shrug: I fail to see how it's something to take note of - or - that it's bad. Especially since accents aren't race-related. Spite what some people think (apparently) - all 'blacks' don't talk the same and neither do all 'whites' - your accent or dialect is cultural and regional. Not race related. You are exposed to it in childhood and take it on through that exposure. You're not born with it. Don't be ignorant on this topic.

Accents/dialect is like jargon and lingo - you pick it up if needed to blend in better. . . nothing more. If you go to a business meeting you're not going to use your casual-tone and words, are you? No difference.

Maybe you need to spend some real time around a ****ty racist prick in order to see the strong difference. It seems that we've done such a solid job of wiping out strong sentiments of racism that people don't even know what it is. I know - because my grandfather was as openly racist as you could get and I had to tolerate that ****er's mouth for years when I was a kid.

Trust me - the last thing racist people want to do is somehow sound like, look like, or act like their 'hated racial group' - so no, they won't be 'talking black' if they're near a black colleague in some form of imitation (I swear - what a silly concept - have you really put a lot of thought into that one?)
 
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First of all, why? What, do you think, causes people to prefer their own race?

why are short people more comfortable around other short people? it's not just race. people are more comfortable with what they know and what they are familiar with. again, going back to caveman analogy. different = unknown = possible danger

I have two adopted sons that are black. they have lived with white people since they were 3. they are more comfortable around white people. not because we have taught them to distrust blacks, but because they are more familiar with whites.[/quote]

Second of all, I think there are lots of factors that contribute to how we feel about different races overall. The negative associations of the test I posted are just one component. And that's only the sub-conscious part. When we start to factor in our conscious beliefs it all gets way more complicated.

and yet it always seems to be only the whites that ever get called racists for doing what we all do
 
Oh, I see, so if we don't re-elect Obama...we're racist.

no, if we don't re-elect Obama we are smart

remember

IF YOU VOTED FOR OBAMA in 08 to prove you were not a racist you have to vote for Mitt in 2012 to prove you aren't a Moron:mrgreen:
 
the school I did my graduate work at had "black fraternities". something I had not seen at Yale. They would always self segregate in the dining halls. I coached a varsity sport and asked some of my athletes what was up. I had Asian, hispanic, Jewish-American, Canadian and white kids on my team. All of them said that the blacks at this school tended to do that. I never understood that. In grad and law school race was not an issue. We didn't have that many black students or Asian students but they didn't isolate themselves. But apparently in the undergraduate departments there was a black created apartheid.


military is a classic example. the white guys hang out with the white guys, the black guys hang out with the black guys, the hispanic guys hang out with the hispanic guys. it not like if a black guy comes over to the white crowd anyone runs him off or makes him feel unwlecome... the guys just tend to self segregate into groups of like race. the only times I've ever seen it not happen that way is if there is not enough of any one "race" to form their own group.

during the duty day the races mix and everyone gets along, but once we're off duty people tend to hang with their own
 
oh yeah, it's a global conspiracy by all the various country's media to promote racism against blacks :roll:

Goshin made an excellent point about how the "racism" accusations today are about BS totally different than the true racism decades ago. I will come out and say that IMO blacks are the ones who keep racial tensions alive. Heck, Obama is guilty of tightening them. From the 2008 video talking to the black audience and saying "they don't care about New Orleans" to discrediting those successful by saying "you didn't build it", he fed their misperception that those well off financially didn't earn their status. Equating rich and evil is absolutely ridiculous, unless you think the American dream is to become evil. This isn't the game of Monopoly where everybody gets to start with the same amount of money.

Logically speaking, I'm certainly not going to have much respect for those who look at me negatively for simply being successful. It's like the kid who cries "no fair" when he sees a kid with something he doesn't have. As a man who has worked his way from poverty to upper-middle class, I know it doesn't take much besides a plan and some hard work. As educators, my wife and I have witnessed things like black students caring more about who wins bathroom brawls than good grades or even passing. Of course, this mostly falls on their parents poor guidance. How many of the 72% drooping out of HS in Detroit do you think made a genuine effort to pass or earn grades to get into college? Furthermore, it seems like the few that do are the only ones who care to speak English in an educated manner.

Lastly, I want to say that actions in public speak volumes. Society is a lot happier when showing respect is common. I've taught in Japan multiple times and Japanese put your average American to major shame when it comes to respecting elders and strangers. Wearing your pants to reveal your rear end intentionally, blurting perverted comments to women walking by, or even being loud and obnoxious describe black behavior commonly witnessed and are actions IMO which are disrespectful to your fellow citizens. While hypocritical, racial slurs are most commonly stated publicly by blacks, as demonstrated by the comments towards Stacey Dash when she announced her support for Romney.

To end on a positive note, Allen West is an example of a black who I highly respect.
 
no, if we don't re-elect Obama we are smart

remember

IF YOU VOTED FOR OBAMA in 08 to prove you were not a racist you have to vote for Mitt in 2012 to prove you aren't a Moron:mrgreen:
Good Sr, are you implying that I'm not a racist? How dare you make such assumptions ;)
 
Obviously you don't even know what racism is.

Nah, I know what it is quite well, thanks. I'm just using the colloquial definition (i.e. racial prejudice) rather than the dictionary definition (i.e. hatred and/or feeling superior to another race).

There are other concepts you're tossing around - like being prejudiced . . . but the concept of making generalizations using race as a 'starting point' isn't bad unless you're closed-minded or overtly negative and refuse to change your generalization even AFTER presented with disproving facts and evidence.

Well, yes, it *is* bad. If I make assumptions about someone based on their race (until facts/evidence prove otherwise), then it's still racism. Sometimes it can have tangible, negative consequences. For example, if someone subconsciously believes that blacks are lazy, and they're less likely to judge their black employees to be hard workers, they might be less likely to promote them. They might not mean to be racist...they might not even be aware that they're doing it.

Granted, not every racial generalization is going to have those kind of consequences. My point is just that those things are extremely widespread in our culture, and so I find it pretty hard to believe that racism is mostly gone.

In a few of my business courses we've done nothing but spend time learning about business-conduct in other cultures via generalizations and conclusions. It's not racism to do so - lest everyone in the entire world is racist (by your definition - we ALL are). The key is to keep an open mind. "this is a general guideline based on what most people experience" - it is not the same as "they're all like this - so stupid."

I've had those classes too. But there's a big difference between, say, learning all the customs associated with a specific culture versus judging some random guy you just met who looks like he might belong to that culture.

Does that make sense?

If you're going to be doing international travel, it makes a lot of sense to learn those customs. On the other hand, if those classes were offering lessons on how to deal with black Americans (beyond "don't be racist"), then I'd find it pretty offensive, because there are far more cultural differences WITHIN races in this country than there are BETWEEN races.

Just because someone uses race as a component of identification or in an effort to understand someone's lifestyle or culture doesn't mean they're doing it negatively and with viciousness. . . or that it's something to be avoided.

I agree that it isn't always done with viciousness. I disagree that it's not negative and that it's not something to be avoided. If a person is making assumptions about someone based on their race, it probably *is* negative at least some of the time...and the person probably won't even be aware that they're doing it.

Now - what's with this:

Maybe - just maybe - did you ever consider that said individual is possibly trying to fit together better in a group or with another person? If someone hangs out with me and starts talking (I don't know what my accent is) - but like me . . . why is that a race-thing. Maybe it's a cultural response? Maybe it's a mental safety-response in which they're trying not to feel so 'different' than who they're with.

Why - if someone does that - do you think it's race related or a bad thing?

Maybe it helps both people feel like they have more in common?

:shrug: I fail to see how it's something to take note of - or - that it's bad. Especially since accents aren't race-related. Spite what some people think (apparently) - all 'blacks' don't talk the same and neither do all 'whites' - your accent or dialect is cultural and regional. Not race related. You are exposed to it in childhood and take it on through that exposure. You're not born with it. Don't be ignorant on this topic.

Accents/dialect is like jargon and lingo - you pick it up if needed to blend in better. . . nothing more. If you go to a business meeting you're not going to use your casual-tone and words, are you? No difference.

Well, the accents/dialect aspect of it is part of it, but when I said that people sometimes speak differently around other people depending on their race, I was referring to more than just that. It can also be the types of things people talk about. Some people are more likely to talk about certain subjects with members of one race than with members of another race (aside from touchy racial issues themselves). They might feel that people of a certain race are less knowledgeable or less interested in certain subjects than members of other races.

Maybe you need to spend some real time around a ****ty racist prick in order to see the strong difference. It seems that we've done such a solid job of wiping out strong sentiments of racism that people don't even know what it is. I know - because my grandfather was as openly racist as you could get and I had to tolerate that ****er's mouth for years when I was a kid.

Oh I know they're different. I'm not saying there is no difference between, say, someone who wants to bring back segregation, and someone who asks Asians where they're really from (implication: not here). The latter is most likely just clueless rather than malicious. But the racist mindset behind both of those ideas is the same: the idea that people can be classified into races, which are a good predictor of the individual's personality traits, background, and interests.

Look, I'm not saying that the people who hold these subconscious racist views are bad people. I've caught myself thinking along those lines before, and had to make a conscious effort to change my perceptions. Once a person makes an effort to be cognizant of these biases, it's much easier to correct them.

Trust me - the last thing racist people want to do is somehow sound like, look like, or act like their 'hated racial group' - so no, they won't be 'talking black' if they're near a black colleague in some form of imitation (I swear - what a silly concept - have you really put a lot of thought into that one?)

The "talking black" thing is your concept, not mine. But like I said, I'm not referring to THAT kind of racism anyway. The type I'm referring to has nothing to do with a "hated racial group"; the people perpetrating it usually don't hate any racial groups and are usually unaware that they're doing it.
 
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