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'Frankenstorm' Headed to Region

You have no clue how power lines work. Do you?

I know very little about it, truth be told. I can maybe change a switchplate in my home without getting electrocuted. I can check the fusebox. Since I am left-handed, I break lots of things, anyway. That being said, I have watched enough news coverage and have seen lots of utility guys working out on the lines, the poles, etc., and what I notice the most, is how careful they are. They don't rush and they seem to be very methodical and logical and do their work step-by-step. It's not like say, running a cash register or even say, writing a dissertation. Lives are on the line, and everyone is extremely careful.

I know that decent people everywhere want to help whereever they can and they are. There was some kind of miscommunication and actually, there was one isolated problem that was quickly rectified.
 
I know very little about it, truth be told. I can maybe change a switchplate in my home without getting electrocuted. I can check the fusebox. Since I am left-handed, I break lots of things, anyway. That being said, I have watched enough news coverage and have seen lots of utility guys working out on the lines, the poles, etc., and what I notice the most, is how careful they are. They don't rush and they seem to be very methodical and logical and do their work step-by-step. It's not like say, running a cash register or even say, writing a dissertation. Lives are on the line, and everyone is extremely careful.

I know that decent people everywhere want to help whereever they can and they are. There was some kind of miscommunication and actually, there was one isolated problem that was quickly rectified.

I can tell! :rofl

The guys that are non-union, that you don't want getting your lights turned back on are linemen, who aren't even going to touch your house. There's nothing wrong with the wiring in your house. The problem exists on the opposite side of the breaker box from your house.
 
Actually, in Pennsylvania two women, a mother and daughter 95 and 64 years of age. were killed when the power in their house got turned back on and the fusebox in the house exploded and they died trying to put the fire out with a water hose.

Sad...and it was a horrible accident, for sure.

http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=...9oD4DA&usg=AFQjCNGMVWy36VtkhAGQG-7YeTEa0bQ9Vw

Where did you get this part of the story? It was not quoted in your link nor these:

2 Dead After Bucks County House Fire « CBS Philly
2 dead after suburban Philly house fire
 
I'm going to throw my two cents in here.... Since I am currently sitting in an Electric Utility Company operations center, and have been for more hours than most people would really like to think about over the last week.

The vast majority of the linemen you see out there putting things back together ARE Union members. The non-union contractor crews we bring in to help are required to follow all company and Union safety rules while they are working for us. However, they only work on the electric system outside of the house. Most of the time only up to the point where your service attaches to the house (which we call a weatherhead), not even to the meter. Anything beyond that is worked on by an electrician, who may or may not be a union member but who is required to have a state certification.

What you folks never get to see is all the stuff that goes on behind the scenes to put the power back on. All of us who work in the offices; directing the crews to the biggest outages and places where they can do the most good in the shortest period of time, making sure they get fed, housed, and properly equipped while keeping them safe. For every lineman out there, there is probably at least one of us sitting inside trying to direct the action; doing everything from printing maps, directing switching operations, feeding and housing outside crews, etc.... It's not as easy as it looks to get the power back on.
 
Thanks. Dumbest, and funniest thing I've read here today.

In all seriousness, you wouldn't care who was getting your power back on if it'd been off for 5 days and freezing temperatures were forecast over the next day or two. You'd be damn happy somebody was trying to help.


Actually, no. You see, I actually lived in the area this hit growing up, and my grandfather used to be one of those people you are whining about. I thought like you do when i was a spoiled child. We got hit by a October snowstorm, and anyone in NY knows that big snowstorms in october are terrible because wet snow and trees with leaves means tons of power outages and downed trees. After a week of showering at my grandparents house and dealing with all the crap I snapped and cursed out the power company in front of him. this is because we knew what the problem was and it seemed simple to fix. My grandfather let me know it is not as simple as you would think. They have to check the lines for breaks, and if they activate an area with a huge short they could cause more damage in places they have fixed.

So yes it is important that the non-union workers from outside organize with the union workers inside the state and work with them and not on their own. Sorry you have no idea how things work, but this is not a bunch of monkey working on the problem, and there needs to be an order and organization to how it is done. I understand you want power back now, but you don't just send power down lines you have not repaired and checked. you also do not have people working in places you don't know because that is a great way to fry someone.
 
I live in the Northeast and have been watching the news and have heard nothing about that. Got a link to that story?

I don't have a link, but i have seen the stories and it also does not surprise me. food stores have the responsibility to not sell foods that have lost refrigeration and might be spoiled. They legally cannot sell it once it has reached a certain temp for a certain period of time as per the health codes. they have to throw it away, and they have to get it away from other foods it could contaminate so they have to put it into the dumpsters. In all honesty wrapped food in dumpsters being dumped in volume due to health regulations is not terribly unhealthy. health regulations are set high but that food has not spoiled yet. They cannot sell it because they would have liability if people got sick, but if people take it from the dumpster they do not have liability.

I used to know people who worked for dunkin donuts in the area and they would bring their unsold donuts out for shelter pickups at night. otherwise all those donuts would be dumped in the garbage despite being edible for at least 2 days.

So dumpster diving for food is not as destitute as it sounds. the likelihood is the dumpsters were cleared before the storm to limit build up, and that the food is on top and wrapped. This is not picking through dumpsters for a half an eaten sandwich, they are probably pulling out wrapped meat which can be cooked, bread which may last a couple of days, and things like that.
 
To my understanding all electricians in the US are required to comply to licensing requirements linked to the National electric code, union membership is not a factor except in which jobs you can work.
Some type of jobs are union only.
I think the Texas line crews are union.

The situation is not about that. In this case the unions make sure certain worker safety regulations are met. they also organize the efforts to allow for proper rest so workers don't make mistakes. they also provide health benefits and insurance in case someone is injured doing the work. It is great that they want to help, but it is also good to have the union making sure that they are safe doing it, and that if they are injured helping that they are covered. The unions are trying to make sure that the people who are helping are not hurt or left out if they are in need. it simply is not sinister.
 
Actually, no. You see, I actually lived in the area this hit growing up, and my grandfather used to be one of those people you are whining about. I thought like you do when i was a spoiled child. We got hit by a October snowstorm, and anyone in NY knows that big snowstorms in october are terrible because wet snow and trees with leaves means tons of power outages and downed trees. After a week of showering at my grandparents house and dealing with all the crap I snapped and cursed out the power company in front of him. this is because we knew what the problem was and it seemed simple to fix. My grandfather let me know it is not as simple as you would think. They have to check the lines for breaks, and if they activate an area with a huge short they could cause more damage in places they have fixed.

So yes it is important that the non-union workers from outside organize with the union workers inside the state and work with them and not on their own. Sorry you have no idea how things work, but this is not a bunch of monkey working on the problem, and there needs to be an order and organization to how it is done. I understand you want power back now, but you don't just send power down lines you have not repaired and checked. you also do not have people working in places you don't know because that is a great way to fry someone.


You have MASSIVE reading comprehension problems don't you? The obvious answer is yes, in case you don't understand that comment/question either.

I never said anything about allowing unskilled and unqualified people manage and oversee the rebuilding of the electrical infrastructure.

Don't read crap into something I've posted that was never there to begin with.
 
In this case the unions make sure certain worker safety regulations are met.
I thought that was OSHA's responsibility...

they also organize the efforts to allow for proper rest so workers don't make mistakes.
I thought that was DOL's responsibility...

they also provide health benefits and insurance in case someone is injured doing the work.
Don't private companies provide similar 'health benefits and insurance' as required by individual State workers compensation laws?

It is great that they want to help, but it is also good to have the union making sure that they are safe doing it, and that if they are injured helping that they are covered. The unions are trying to make sure that the people who are helping are not hurt or left out if they are in need. it simply is not sinister.
Do you REALLY believe that those utility companies who are non-union are less sensitive to their folks being hurt or left out if they are in need or are sinister?

...pathetic
 
You have MASSIVE reading comprehension problems don't you? The obvious answer is yes, in case you don't understand that comment/question either.

I never said anything about allowing unskilled and unqualified people manage and oversee the rebuilding of the electrical infrastructure.

Don't read crap into something I've posted that was never there to begin with.

Don't backpedal so fast, you might run someone over.
 
The situation is not about that. In this case the unions make sure certain worker safety regulations are met. they also organize the efforts to allow for proper rest so workers don't make mistakes. they also provide health benefits and insurance in case someone is injured doing the work. It is great that they want to help, but it is also good to have the union making sure that they are safe doing it, and that if they are injured helping that they are covered. The unions are trying to make sure that the people who are helping are not hurt or left out if they are in need. it simply is not sinister.
If you are drowning, it is a luxury to be able to select the hand that saves you!
Everyone does not have that luxury.
 
The reason I'm making my assinine posts is because I'm a little ticked. This storm got way hyped, more so than even Hugo, is continuing to get mega media coverage, and, oh my, 60 people dead. Where was all of this when Charley hit? I rode out this storm thinking, Jesus, I've gone snorkeling in worse weather, yet it's a state of emergency, national guard, and the president rolls in. Why? Because new englanders aren't used to it, and since floridians are, they just need to accept that Charley apparently wasn't that big a deal? Hundreds dead, millions left homeless, property damage so extensive that the insurance companies couldn't even cover it. I do not make light of the storm, either of them...just the outpouring of attention ONE is recieving. I worked for over a month up and down FL repairing roofs with tarps, building tent camps for the refugees, clearing rubble, etc. Know much of that got covered by news? About two days, and then onto the next thing. But since this puff of a blow by comparison hits the north east, woa, stop the presses, we gotta ram THIS news down the throat of the country for going on three weeks now. Toughen up, north east.

It's good to know that you have no clue as to what is going on in NJ and NYC. You have no understanding about comparisons and context. This is why your post is both ignorant and pure nonsense.
 
If anyone wants to know, FIRST HAND, what it's like in NJ and what it was like to deal with this storm... not the media... just ask ME. I've lived in NJ all my life, so I have context and I can tell you what's really happening and what average folks are really saying.
 
If anyone wants to know, FIRST HAND, what it's like in NJ and what it was like to deal with this storm... not the media... just ask ME. I've lived in NJ all my life, so I have context and I can tell you what's really happening and what average folks are really saying.

Please, do. :)
 
Please, do. :)

Impact: This storm is like nothing that NJ has seen, pretty much ever. I've lived here all my life. In my memory (dating back to the early '70s) we have never had a storm of this magnitude; I do not believe that a storm with near Hurricane Category 2 force winds has ever made landfall in NJ. Landfall occurred at around 8 PM EST Monday night. For the most part, the state was badly hit prior to that, but it was more like just a really bad storm. Much of the severe damage occurred between the hours of 8 and 1 AM Monday night/Tuesday morning. During that time, winds were constant at between 50-75 MPH with consistent gusts of near or over 90. I live in Northern NJ... 30 miles from NYC, 40 miles from the shore. We lost power at 7:22 PM. I was checking JCP&L's website... they are our energy provider. At 7:30, 11% of my town was without power. At 1 AM 100% of my town was without power. The shore starting getting hit a bit earlier, but this was pretty standard around the state. The winds finally started dying down around 2-3 in the morning... and when I say "dying down" I mean 30 MPH consistent, with gust at 50 MPH.

Tuesday was mostly spend assessing the damage. In my area, a local tree service had between 24-36 trucks parked in a local high school's parking lot for a week, waiting. When I went out to survey the area at about 10:30 AM, there were TWO trucks left there. The tree/power line damage was significant. Transformers blew by either being hit by trees/branches, or being ripped from the poles from the wind. At one point, nearly 90% of the entire state was without power. Practically no one was restored on Tuesday. Massive amounts of tree work needed to be done. Also, though flooding was not a problem in my area, the storm surge destroyed sub-stations in many areas, requiring several days of "drying out" before anything could be reconnected. The tree and pole damage is so widespread that no matter how many 'treemen" were enlisted, it wasn't enough. I have yet to see a street in the dozen towns I've been through that was left unscathed. Everyone I know says the same thing.

One must understand context. NJ is one of the most densely populated areas of the world... and is the MOST densely populated state in the US... almost three times that of Florida for example. Also, because of our location, it is rare for a storm of this size to hit us directly. Most hurricanes that reach NJ are far weaker and are barely tropical storms by the time the get here. Most make landfall far to the south, and the land weakens them. Last year's storm, Hurricane Irene, for example. Much less damage, much less widespread. Context is why this storm is so devastating and why comparing it to a storm in Florida is irrelevant and has no place in comparison.

By Wednesday, there were signs of restoration... and realization as to the damage. The Jersey shore has been pretty much destroyed. Some of the most popular vacation spots are fairly inhabitable. Just entering certain towns, even if you are a resident, will get you arrested. Some towns will remain like this for 6-8 months due to the damage to infrastructure... gas lines, sewer lines, and such. The famous Seaside amusement park... some of the rides were picked up and deposited in the ocean. There are boats on people's front lawns. Houses were blown from their foundations OVER A BLOCK AWAY. Power outages have created the gas "shortages" you hear about. It's not that there is no gas... it's that over 75% of all gas stations have no power to pump. And... with so many people operating on generators, AND all New Jersey Transit trains and most buses non-operational, the demand for gas is higher than it's ever been. Another problem during the restoration process is that damaged trees continue to fall. The power company may repair one thing... only to have a tree fall and destroy all the work they've done.

Thursday. Some services began to be restored. Though most towns were still at around 80%-90% with no power, a few shops and restaurants began to open. Want to get something to eat? Be prepared to wait a LONG time... and the restaurant may run out of food before you order. Supermarkets had practically nothing; they didn't have power and most people cleaned them out of non-perishables before the storm hit. Every supermarket I've visited had had to throw away their ENTIRE stock of frozen foods and refrigerated foods. It was at this point that the gas lines also started to become MORE of a problem as power restoration was still going slow because of tree/substation damage. Also, in my area, some high tension lines were not only blown off their towers, but the wind was so strong that it RIPPED THE INSULATION RIGHT OFF OF THEM. They could not be reattached; they had to be replaced, at least half a mile of them.

Friday. I went to get gas. I had heard that a station in my town got power back, so I decided to start waiting at 4 AM... for their 7 AM opening. I was fourth in line. At 6 AM, township police informed us that the station was out of gas... a very common occurrence over the past few days. So, I went to a station in the next town that I knew had been open on Thursday. They had a 7:30 opening. By the time I got there (6:15) the line already stretched 3 tenths of a mile... about a hundred cars. I got gas at about 8:45. Later, when I checked the station, the line was 8 tenths of a mile long. From what I've heard, this is relatively short. Governor Christie's gas rationing was a good move.

I got power back at 6:30 PM Friday night. Most of my friends do NOT have power, yet. My street is about 2 miles long. At 9 AM I saw about a dozen First Energy trucks coming onto my street (they were from Michigan). It took nearly all of them that entire 9+ hours to get power back to my street and a few other streets on the same grid. One street and THAT'S how much damage was done.

Things seem to be getting a little better in my area. On Tuesday, the block where I work was the only block in that town that had power (our power lines are underground). The restaurant next door started running out of basics 90 minutes after opening. Now, the town where I work has 50% power. Most towns are at about 50% or better, though there are still some that are largely without power. The entire state is at about 50%-60% without power still. Estimates are that things should be at about 80%-90% by Wednesday.

This storm was MASSIVE for the area and the reason that it has been so bad and received so much attention is because it has affected so many and is fairly unprecedented for the area. It would be like what would happen if Miami were hit with a 3 foot snow storm and a week of 20 degree weather.

So, reading the minimizing posts by some is both annoying and demonstrating that those who are making them have no knowledge of what's actually happening and about context. If you have any other questions, please ask ME. Don't make assumptions.
 
Latest report on power outages: JCP&L has dipped below 500,000 outages from a high of 980,000 early Tuesday morning. They have reconnected nearly half of their subscribers. To me, they are doing a great job considering the magnitude of what they have needed to repair.
 
I found the link that show power outage areas and gas stations data, it might help someone.
Google Crisis Map
 
560671_518915648120352_1042484213_n.jpg


Thought about the lighter side, but it fits this thread.
 
Delaware National Guard troops fresh from post-Hurricane Sandy recovery operations in the state left this morning for New York City to help that more heavily storm-stricken region.

The troops, most of them from Seaford’s 1049th Transportation Company, will today join more than 7,000 Army and Air National Guard troops from nine eastern states already performing communications, engineering, evacuation, medical, security, search and rescue, sheltering, debris removal and transportation missions, according to the Pentagon.

The 1049th was heavily involved in the effort to assist civil authorities throughout Delaware last week and returned in May following nearly a year of dangerous convoy operations in Afghanistan.


Nice...I just wonder how many aren't union members....:mrgreen::2wave::lamo
 
The point of the matter is that no matter how prepared you are, that is NO guarantee for anything at all.

AND YET Florida seems to be the most prepared state for Hurricanes. 1985 building codes to now have grown to be VERY important considerations. You think you can't be prepared? Building codes ALONE are important. Especially in coastal regions. They can retrofit things fairly cheaply now too. Florida universities take this kind of stuff very seriously. I actually have a friend who is writing a master's thesis on Traffic signal strength in high wind conditions. It starts at school levels.

Now if Florida were to be hit by an ice storm...we wouldn't be prepared. North Florida would handle it ok because I can remember times where it got down to 17. Coldest recorded temp was -2 F in Tallahassee...but that was in 1899. The thing is that Ice is obviously a large damage factor, but not as damaging a factor to human life in Florida. Hurricanes is another story. Certainly a huge loss of life factor if you are not ready. Experience is the issue obviously. Training. Do you really think all of that is a pipedream? It really isn't. Your utilities guys could come down to Florida to learn more about the systems we implement. Heck enough of your old people are down here...I am sure they have relatives to stay with :).

There is no guarantee, because there is always a bigger storm down the road. But there IS such a thing as best possible preperation. Florida is always pushing for better methods of hurricane preperation. The North East needs to take notes. Just like out west needs to take notes on wild Fire prevention.
 
AND YET Florida seems to be the most prepared state for Hurricanes. 1985 building codes to now have grown to be VERY important considerations. You think you can't be prepared? Building codes ALONE are important. Especially in coastal regions. They can retrofit things fairly cheaply now too. Florida universities take this kind of stuff very seriously. I actually have a friend who is writing a master's thesis on Traffic signal strength in high wind conditions. It starts at school levels.

Now if Florida were to be hit by an ice storm...we wouldn't be prepared. North Florida would handle it ok because I can remember times where it got down to 17. Coldest recorded temp was -2 F in Tallahassee...but that was in 1899. The thing is that Ice is obviously a large damage factor, but not as damaging a factor to human life in Florida. Hurricanes is another story. Certainly a huge loss of life factor if you are not ready. Experience is the issue obviously. Training. Do you really think all of that is a pipedream? It really isn't. Your utilities guys could come down to Florida to learn more about the systems we implement. Heck enough of your old people are down here...I am sure they have relatives to stay with :).

There is no guarantee, because there is always a bigger storm down the road. But there IS such a thing as best possible preperation. Florida is always pushing for better methods of hurricane preperation. The North East needs to take notes. Just like out west needs to take notes on wild Fire prevention.

Are you familiar with the geography of the northeast and how heavily populated it is?
 
"It's just a windy, rainy day"

Change your mind yet? Which part of broken levies, record-setting storm surges, and dead people do you think is being over-hyped? Maybe you can tell us which story is more important? I know, maybe some random out-of-context sentence the president said. Or a sex scandal!

What are you talking about? Christy and Obama bipartisanly agreed that both did a great job solving everything days ago. It all was taken care of days ago. Didn't you know that? It was no big deal at all. The storm hit, Obama came in and solved everything the next day as confirmed by Christy, and it was all over within 48 hours and everything back to normal.

I told you it'd be no big deal. A few rich people's summer homes need a new paint job maybe, but Obama's on that too.
 
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Just heard a hurricane sandy song on the radio, with cut ins of all the news bites mixed. To commemorate the worst storm in US history. It was awesome.
 
What are you talking about? Christy and Obama bipartisanly agreed that both did a great job solving everything days ago. It all was taken care of days ago. Didn't you know that? It was no big deal at all. The storm hit, Obama came in and solved everything the next day as confirmed by Christy, and it was all over within 48 hours and everything back to normal.

I told you it'd be no big deal. A few rich people's summer homes need a new paint job maybe, but Obama's on that too.

I Lol'ed at the last part. :lol:
 
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