Indiana Republican: When life begins from rape, "God intended" it [W:266]

AGENT J · Oct 24, 2012

Henrin said:
1.)So what you are saying is that when you were thinking it was good to have her aborted that there was nothing to abort. That makes a whole lot of sense.

What is this in response too?

Again, what is this in response too?

I'm sorry, but its obvious to me that you are trying to connect your feelings for her at that time to your feelings towards her now. They are not one in the same. At the time you wished she was never born and now you wish that both parents were around and loved her as you do. They are not one in the same, sorry.

1.) there was no her FACT lol
2.) number 2 lol
3.) number 3
4.) wrong again, my "feelings about her" now play NO role in what im saying LMAO none
what i am saying is i wanted her (my GF) to have an abortion because i didint think we were ready, it wouldnt be a good/stable or optimal environment for a baby and I didnt think we were right for eachother.

that fact was proven and supports why I wanted an abortion, nice try but another fail.

The things yo make up in your head are amazing, you should simply start asking more questions instead of guessing 100% wrong so much.

Henrin · Oct 25, 2012

Objective-J said:
1.) there was no her FACT lol
2.) number 2 lol

Ok, but I don't recall there being numbers besides two and three.

Her gender was decided and she existed in reality, so yeah, there was a her.

3.) number 3

Yes, but my point stands. Custody is a matter of law, not a matter of feelings of the past or hell, even today.

4.) wrong again, my "feelings about her" now play NO role in what im saying LMAO none

Your feelings for her obviously are playing a part in your argument. Listen to yourself. Every last part of it is filled with your feelings. The first part you had a misguided view that would of left her dead, and now you feel you are good parent that cares for his child and her well being. Even going so far as saying you wish that she never went through all things she went through in defense of your original thought. That is saying a lot about your feelings.

what i am saying is i wanted her (my GF) to have an abortion because i didint think we were ready, it wouldnt be a good/stable or optimal environment for a baby and I didnt think we were right for eachother.

Ok, but that doesn't change the facts. You still wished she would of been killed and never born. You are just trying to say that death would of been to her wellbeing, but its obvious she is better now even with only one parent and all the things she went through in her life.

AGENT J · Oct 25, 2012

Henrin said:
Ok, but I don't recall there being numbers besides two and three.

1.)Her gender was decided and she existed in reality, so yeah, there was a her.

2.)Yes, but my point stands. Custody is a matter of law, not a matter of feelings of the past or hell, even today.

3.)Your feelings for her obviously are playing a part in your argument. Listen to yourself. Every last part of it is filled with your feelings. The first part you had a misguided view that would of left her dead, and now you feel you are right because you are good parent that cares for his child and her well being. Even going so far as saying you wish that she never went through all things she went through. That is saying a lot about your feelings.

4.)Ok, but that doesn't change the facts. You still wished she would of been killed than ever born.

1.) no it wasnt and no SHE didnt, that fact will never change no matter how much your false opinion disagrees with it
2.) your current point is meaningless to the FACTS i stated
3.) uhm again you are 100% wrong me being a good parent has NOTHING to do with it, nothing lol try again because you have failed yet again. You make up tons of stuff in your head its not even funny. I love how you tell me what I think LOL
4.) this is 100% not a fact :shrug:

you are lying or simply very uneducated about this subject pick one, or simply ask me direct questions and i will gladly educate you to the truth and facts becasue once again you are wrong.

if you disagree please PLEASE pick any topic I already covered and prove it to be factual, id LOVE to hear it lol

Henrin · Oct 25, 2012

Objective-J said:
1.) no it wasnt and no SHE didnt, that fact will never change no matter how much your false opinion disagrees with it

Yes, I'm afraid it was and she did. At this point I have to wonder if you really know of what I'm referencing.

2.) your current point is meaningless to the FACTS i stated

That fact has been my point the entire time. It is being said to make it clear your point is invalid on its face. Custody law has nothing to do with the subject. Just because you won custody for whatever reason has no play on your thoughts or feelings of the past. None at all.

3.) uhm again you are 100% wrong me being a good parent has NOTHING to do with it, nothing lol try again because you have failed yet again. You make up tons of stuff in your head its not even funny. I love how you tell me what I think LOL

I never it did.

4.) this is 100% not a fact :shrug:

So she would have lived on. That would kind of make abortion pointless, wouldn't it? .

iguanaman · Oct 25, 2012

clownboy said:
How is he going to pack the court? The more liberal justices getting long in the tooth can hold out another four years if they want. Heck, if they trusted Obama they'd have retired already.

Obama has already appointed two justices, you're not afraid he'll "pack the court". Try to think outside the one issue box.

That is so easy for you to say. Do you realize their are 32,000 rape pregnancys a year? Do you also realize that ANY woman in America could be raped and made to carry the result to term? That in many States the rapist will ge granted visitation rights for the child?
Now imagine that you are a woman and not a clownboy.

AGENT J · Oct 25, 2012

Henrin said:
1.)Yes, I'm afraid it was and she did. At this point I have to wonder if you really know of what I'm referencing.

That fact has been my point the entire time. It is being said to make it clear your point is invalid on its face. Custody law has nothing to do with the subject. Just because you won custody for whatever reason has no play on your thoughts or feelings of the past. None at all.

I never it did.

So she would of lived on. That would kind of make abortion pointless, wouldn't it? Yeah...

1.) doesnt matter what you are "referencing" fact is there was no her
2.) LMAO wow you are funny, my point is 100% valid and that has been proven, the stuff you are trying to make up is meaningless to the facts. :shrug:
3.) yes you 100% just did, this is a bold face lie by you
4.) translation you have nothing to prove you false opinions

ill keep waiting, lets rehash the facts and things im actually saying

I never wanted HER killed or wished HER killed, FACT

my reasoning for wanting my girlfriend to abort have been confirmed by the fact that I now have sole custody, my concerns were that we werent ready and it would have been an unstable/not optimal environment. Time has only cemented these concerns as facts making my concerns correct. Emotion/ my custody plays ZERO role in this fact LOL

mlsj2012 · Oct 25, 2012

Do you think maybe Mourdock is really Rosemary's Baby all grown up. After all, they would be about the same age and that would explain why he is against abortion for any reason. hmmmmm, I wonder.

AGENT J · Oct 25, 2012

Objective-J said:
I have a honest question for everyone,

say abortion was illegal and a woman was raped and the pregnancy killed her

should the rapist now be charged with some type of murder? involuntary etc doesnt matter, should the rapist be charged with murder?

no one on the pro-life side has the balls to answer this huh?

Pinkie · Oct 25, 2012

clownboy said:
How is he going to pack the court? The more liberal justices getting long in the tooth can hold out another four years if they want. Heck, if they trusted Obama they'd have retired already.

Obama has already appointed two justices, you're not afraid he'll "pack the court". Try to think outside the one issue box.

Ginsberg, Scalia, Thomas and Roberts are all rather old -- they'll all be over 80 by 2016. Even if Ginsberg stays on, which may not be possible, that's THREE Justices who will almost certainly retire if Romney is elected.

If Obama is elected, Ginsberg will retire and the other three oldsters will likely try to hang on, but may not be able to. My guess is, Obama will get to replace at least two Justices.

Pinkie · Oct 25, 2012

Aunt Spiker said:
Do you *need* the Bible or God to decide not to steal, lie, covet, murder, and obey your parents (if they're worth obeying, of course - some aren't) . . . do you need God telling you to do those things in order to actually do those things?

no - I don't think you do.

And what's with this: "I said earlier that God's intentions doesn't matter to us and that we need to obey his commands."
I say it absolutely matters what his intentions are if I'm suppose to govern my life according to his whims and will - eh? I'm not in the habit of jumping when random stranger say jump without giving me a good reason for it.

(the usual bit goes here - how I don't even believe God exists but still live life as a moral individual)

I don't need to MAKE LAWS that track some fundie's ideas about "God's laws", anymore than I need to MAKE LAWS that track Sharia Law.

The US is not a theocracy. Keep your morals off my body.

Pinkie · Oct 25, 2012

JayDubya said:
I'm not a coward - I'm quite direct in my support for human rights. I am a gender equitist. I don't want to "control" anyone.

If you would, please, have the sort of day that people who perpetuate such ridiculous slander deserve.

You are a delusional fool who hates women and seeks their oppression via some twisted logic that dictates they alone in the US have no control over their own bodies.

Men like you have been around forever and have never succeeded at attaining the kind of control they "need". I'm not afraid of you, buster.

Pinkie · Oct 25, 2012

Henrin said:
So why then is emotional trauma still there or even worse after an abortion?

Fair enough, but that is just defending one wrong with another.

Henrin, don't be an asshole. It's not your place to "protect" women from the trauma of an elective abortion -- that's a private decision and you have ABSOLUTELY no reason to try and inject yourself into it (unless the woman involved is someone you love AND she chooses to include you).

RabidAlpaca · Oct 25, 2012

Objective-J said:
no one on the pro-life side has the balls to answer this huh?

I don't think anyone here is scared of you. lol.

Objective-J said:
I have a honest question for everyone,

say abortion was illegal and a woman was raped and the pregnancy killed her

should the rapist now be charged with some type of murder? involuntary etc doesnt matter, should the rapist be charged with murder?

While I believe that rape should have a very, very serious punishment, I don't think that murder could be charged in this scenario. It was an unforseen consequence. Manslaughter, perhaps. Murder, no. Murder has to have the killing itself be intentional.

Henrin · Oct 25, 2012

Objective-J said:
1.) doesnt matter what you are "referencing" fact is there was no her

There was obviously a her. Your daughters gender by the time you found out was already decided.

2.) LMAO wow you are funny, my point is 100% valid and that has been proven, the stuff you are trying to make up is meaningless to the facts. :shrug:

If that is what you believe.

3.) yes you 100% just did, this is a bold face lie by you

No, the point of that was not about how good a parent you are.

4.) translation you have nothing to prove you false opinions

The only way you can deny my premise here is if you think she wasn't alive to begin with. Is that so?

I never wanted HER killed or wished HER killed, FACT

So you didn't want her aborted? That is not what you keep saying.

my reasoning for wanting my girlfriend to abort have been confirmed by the fact that I now have sole custody, my concerns were that we werent ready and it would have been an unstable/not optimal environment. Time has only cemented these concerns as facts making my concerns correct. Emotion/ my custody plays ZERO role in this fact LOL

Ok, so those were your concerns. The fact still remains that none of that changes that you wanted your daughter killed. Reasons for wanting an act done doesn't make the nature of the act change.

Andalublue · Oct 25, 2012

Guess who said this:

An embryo has no rights. Rights do not pertain to a potential, only to an actual being. A child cannot acquire any rights until it is born. The living take precedence over the not-yet-living (or the unborn).

Abortion is a moral right—which should be left to the sole discretion of the woman involved; morally, nothing other than her wish in the matter is to be considered. Who can conceivably have the right to dictate to her what disposition she is to make of the functions of her own body?”

PeteEU · Oct 25, 2012

Andalublue said:
Guess who said this:

Guessing some right wing guru that Romney or Ryan sees as a hero and mentor..... that Rand chick?

Henrin · Oct 25, 2012

Andalublue said:
Guess who said this:

All I know for sure is that I didn't.

Anyway, my guess is Romney.

Pinkie · Oct 25, 2012

RabidAlpaca said:
I don't think anyone here is scared of you. lol.

While I believe that rape should have a very, very serious punishment, I don't think that murder could be charged in this scenario. It was an unforseen consequence. Manslaughter, perhaps. Murder, no. Murder has to have the killing itself be intentional.

For legal purposes, you "intend" every direct consequence of your crime to the victim. In some states, your victim must die within a year and a day for you to be charged with murder of any sort (murder two, negligent homicide, manslaughter), but on these facts, the rapist is also a murderer.

BTW, so is every American who worked to deprive women of their reproductive choices, but that's only a moral guilt. Legally, they get to skate.

Funny how every time some authoritarian asshole comes up with a new law to control the behavior of others, the evil effects of that law never land on him, isn't it?

Pinkie · Oct 25, 2012

Henrin said:
There was obviously a her. Your daughters gender by the time you found out was already decided.

If that is what you believe.

No, the point of that was not about how good a parent you are.

The only way you can deny my premise here is if you think she wasn't alive to begin with. Is that so?

So you didn't want her aborted? That is not what you keep saying.

Ok, so those were your concerns. The fact still remains that none of that changes that you wanted your daughter killed. Reasons for wanting an act done doesn't make the nature of the act change.

Henrin, if you are accusing someone of wanting their own child or grandchild aborted IRL, that is WAY beyond the line no decent person should cross in a debate on abortion rights.

Why do you anti-abortion types never notice when you wander off the decency reservation? Yet another reason your shrill cries of having staked out the moral high ground ring hollow.

Meanwhile, reel it back in, brotherman. Attacking someone's family is a serious TOS violation.

JayDubya · Oct 25, 2012

Pinkie said:
Henrin, if you are accusing someone of wanting their own child or grandchild aborted IRL, that is WAY beyond the line no decent person should cross in a debate on abortion rights.

Well you see, if you would open your eyes and read the words in front of you, you would note that he expressed exactly that. There doesn't need to be an "accusation" of something someone else directly admitted.

But no, you're too busy having your completely delusional rant against positions I have never and will never take to notice.

Andalublue · Oct 25, 2012

PeteEU said:
Guessing some right wing guru that Romney or Ryan sees as a hero and mentor..... that Rand chick?

Henrin said:
All I know for sure is that I didn't.

Anyway, my guess is Romney.

The Euro-leftie gets the cigar.

She might have been a terrible novelist and knee-jerk contrarian, but she was at least consistent enough to know that you can't claim to be in favour of liberty and then ditch it to accord with your own quasi-religious beliefs.

RabidAlpaca · Oct 25, 2012

Pinkie said:
For legal purposes, you "intend" every direct consequence of your crime to the victim. In some states, your victim must die within a year and a day for you to be charged with murder of any sort (murder two, negligent homicide, manslaughter), but on these facts, the rapist is also a murderer.

BTW, so is every American who worked to deprive women of their reproductive choices, but that's only a moral guilt. Legally, they get to skate.

Funny how every time some authoritarian asshole comes up with a new law to control the behavior of others, the evil effects of that law never land on him, isn't it?

Murder is almost never charged that way. If I stick out my foot to trip you as you walk by, and you fall, break your neck and die, I could be charged with assault and manslaughter. It's obvious that I did not intend to murder you by tripping you.

If the woman died from wounds succumbed from the violence of the rape, then absolutely. But an unforseen medical complication due to pregnancy, not likely to be charged as murder.

PeteEU · Oct 25, 2012

Andalublue said:
The Euro-leftie gets the cigar.

Now I am insulted, I am no leftie! Thats like calling Man City a bad team!

p.s. Last night they were bad btw... not normally though!

Henrin · Oct 25, 2012

Pinkie said:
Henrin, if you are accusing someone of wanting their own child or grandchild aborted IRL, that is WAY beyond the line no decent person should cross in a debate on abortion rights.

He said himself he wanted his daughter aborted, so I'm not accusing him of anything he didn't already say. Why is it out of line to just get him to realize what that means?

Why do you anti-abortion types never notice when you wander off the decency reservation? Yet another reason your shrill cries of having staked out the moral high ground ring hollow.

I don't know the rules of the decency reservation.

They're constantly changing and I stopped checking the notices a long time ago.

Meanwhile, reel it back in, brotherman. Attacking someone's family is a serious TOS violation.

I'm not attacking his family.

Pinkie · Oct 25, 2012

RabidAlpaca said:
Murder is almost never charged that way. If I stick out my foot to trip you as you walk by, and you fall, break your neck and die, I could be charged with assault and manslaughter. It's obvious that I did not intend to murder you by tripping you.

If the woman died from wounds succumbed from the violence of the rape, then absolutely. But an unforseen medical complication due to pregnancy, not likely to be charged as murder.

You are wrong. If that woman was infected with a deadly STI as a result of the rape and died, the rapist will be charged with murder. If her death is foreseeable but will take time, he might be charged with attempted murder.

Pregnancy and the complications thereof are not "unforeseeable" or "indirect" consequences of rape when the rapist is the father.

Indiana Republican: When life begins from rape, "God intended" it [W:266]

AGENT J

"If you ain't first, you're last"

Henrin

AGENT J

"If you ain't first, you're last"

Henrin

iguanaman

AGENT J

"If you ain't first, you're last"

mlsj2012

New member

AGENT J

"If you ain't first, you're last"

Pinkie

Pinkie

Pinkie

Pinkie

RabidAlpaca

Engineer

Henrin

Andalublue

Hello again!

PeteEU

Henrin

Pinkie

Pinkie

JayDubya

Struggler

Andalublue

Hello again!

RabidAlpaca

Engineer

PeteEU

Henrin

Pinkie