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Indiana Republican: When life begins from rape, "God intended" it [W:266]

re: Indiana Republican: When life begins from rape, "God intended" it [W:266]

rocket88 said:
But if God willed the creation of this life through rape, isn't He condoning it on some level?
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Not necessarily. I don't see why God couldn't make something good come out of it, even if he didn't intend for or want the rape to happen.
 
re: Indiana Republican: When life begins from rape, "God intended" it [W:266]

Wiggen said:
NOthing partisanly moronic about it. The Republicans have a problem with women and their right to control their own bodies. That's not even disputed any more.
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That's not what was claimed and you know it. But this new moving of the goalposts claim, also "partisanly moronic". The republicans have an anti-abortion platform. You and the opposition choose to characterize it with memes that are one-sided and absurd to those who don't buy into your particular bias. Same as some extreme republican partisan who characterizes the democrat platform as pro-murder and having a problem with children being born.
 
re: Indiana Republican: When life begins from rape, "God intended" it [W:266]

clownboy said:
Well, it's not the platform of ANY party and it's just moronic partisan play to suggest it is. That said, I can't believe this is a US senate candidate. I mean, over the decades I've come to expect the occaisonal candidate for the US house will go off the rails and say something stupid in front of a national audience, but the senate candidates are typically a little better minded than this. After all, senate candidates know they'll be representing the whole state, not just one district.
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It ABSOLUTELY is the platform of the GOP. The GOP platform calls for no exceptions. Period.
 
re: Indiana Republican: When life begins from rape, "God intended" it [W:266]

Woah guys. Way to much goin on here. And you fail to see anything straight. Bad things happen to people. Why? Because things happen. People make bad choices.
I said earlier that God's intentions doesn't matter to us and that we need to obey his commands. One of you said we don't need to live by those. Well first of all most people think the bible is full of DON'T DOs. Don't do this. Don't do that. Rather they are warnings for what can happen to you if you do do them. God is trying to protect us here. Lets stay basic though because I know many of you don't know the bible. 10 commandments. VERY BASIC. If everyone in America lived by those. Do you think we would have a better country? Don't kill, don't steal, don't lie, don't covet, obey your parents etc. If you disagree then I this is just more personal reasoning that you don't want to believe in God and not having real logic.

They are going to happen whether you want them to or not. If you fail to see what good comes out of something bad thats your own fault.

I ran from the police once and spent 6 days in jail. My mistake, my consequence. That is a bad choice that led to a bad result. But actually I met some amazing people in jail, one I actually invited to church with me when he got out and he really did hit me up. I also learned why I never want to do wrong again to return to jail. So you have a choice. To look at everything negative. Or you can see what good came out of your situation.

I see a lot of you talking about morality and what not. I don't see any of you talking about the soliders who go on the front lines for civilians to basically be sacrificed for you to live in peace. But since that directly benefits you, its ok. Throwing them to the dogs is ok right? Cus thats what they as military signed up for. To die.

One thing I love about the Bible is how scary it is as much as it is amazing. The bible says God takes no pleasure in the suffering of others. But he is a just and fair God.

Choose whatever you want to believe. It's not my job to make you believe but rather lay it out infront of you so you can't say no one told you when you are before God. Every tongue will confess and every knee will bow. Oh how I love this. God get's the last word. I guess the only way to find out, is to die. See you on the other side!!
 
re: Indiana Republican: When life begins from rape, "God intended" it [W:266]

Anagram said:
Not necessarily. I don't see why God couldn't make something good come out of it, even if he didn't intend for or want the rape to happen.
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So God sees the rape happening and figures "Well, I wasn't going to make this chick pregnant, but now I might as well?"

Take it from the other end of life. Say a person is murdered. Are you saying that God didn't will the murder, but did will the death of the victim?
 
re: Indiana Republican: When life begins from rape, "God intended" it [W:266]

rocket88 said:
So God sees the rape happening and figures "Well, I wasn't going to make this chick pregnant, but now I might as well?"

Take it from the other end of life. Say a person is murdered. Are you saying that God didn't will the murder, but did will the death of the victim?
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You have things mixed up. This happens everyday and its happening right now. God doesn't want bad things to happen to people. God doesn't make chicks pregnant. A man who has sex with her does. God gives everyone free will. If you choose to kill, that doesn't mean the victim was meant to die. YOU decided that. Not God.
 
re: Indiana Republican: When life begins from rape, "God intended" it [W:266]

rocket88 said:
So God sees the rape happening and figures "Well, I wasn't going to make this chick pregnant, but now I might as well?"

Take it from the other end of life. Say a person is murdered. Are you saying that God didn't will the murder, but did will the death of the victim?
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Well I don't think the mind of God works anything like that, but yeah I guess something like that.

For your other question I don't think Mourdock believes that only God creates death. I do think he believes that only god can create life.
 
re: Indiana Republican: When life begins from rape, "God intended" it [W:266]

Henrin said:
I have to say I find this interesting. The guy is just sitting there doing nothing and you think that you have the right to shoot and kill him.
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He is in my home unbidden. His very presence is a violation.

rocket88 said:
So God sees the rape happening and figures "Well, I wasn't going to make this chick pregnant, but now I might as well?"
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"I'm sorry that piece of **** did that to you. Here's a baby to make up for it."

Which is exactly how many women come to terms with making the decision to keep that child. It doesn't matter how a woman gets a baby; it only matters whether or not she wants the baby. If the child is wanted, it is the silver lining to a very dark and ugly cloud.
 
re: Indiana Republican: When life begins from rape, "God intended" it [W:266]

varium103 said:
You have things mixed up. This happens everyday and its happening right now. God doesn't want bad things to happen to people. God doesn't make chicks pregnant. A man who has sex with her does. God gives everyone free will. If you choose to kill, that doesn't mean the victim was meant to die. YOU decided that. Not God.
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That's what I think, which is why I don't see it as God's will when a woman gets pregnant from rape. Not everything that happens is God's will, sometimes things happen that aren't His will.
 
re: Indiana Republican: When life begins from rape, "God intended" it [W:266]

Anagram said:
Well I don't think the mind of God works anything like that, but yeah I guess something like that.

For your other question I don't think Mourdock believes that only God creates death. I do think he believes that only god can create life.
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But in both cases, the life or death occurred as a direct result of human action. Humans sometimes take actions that are not willed by God, thus the existence of sin. I can't philosophically imagine that God wills the result of the action, but not the action.
 
re: Indiana Republican: When life begins from rape, "God intended" it [W:266]

rocket88 said:
That's what I think, which is why I don't see it as God's will when a woman gets pregnant from rape. Not everything that happens is God's will, sometimes things happen that aren't His will.
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Absolutely. I agree.
 
re: Indiana Republican: When life begins from rape, "God intended" it [W:266]

Tucker Case said:
One of the worst, most dismissive things a person can say to another person after they experience a trauma of some sort is anything along the lines of "everything happens for a reason".
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Never said it was a smart, helpful, appropriate, tactful, or intelligent thing to say. On hte contrary, I've said the opposite NUMEROUS times in this thread.

I'm simply arguing against the notion that it's "Disgusting" and to a lesser extent that it's "unreasonable".
 
re: Indiana Republican: When life begins from rape, "God intended" it [W:266]

Can I ask why anyone would argue the fine points of christian dogma on a thread about the POV of a man seeking to be elected? This is not a theocracy; I'm not christian.

Why do I have to surrender my reproductive rights just to comfort some MAN I never met in Indiana?

The hypocrisy here is just stunning.
 
re: Indiana Republican: When life begins from rape, "God intended" it [W:266]

Wiggen said:
NOthing partisanly moronic about it. The Republicans have a problem with women and their right to control their own bodies. That's not even disputed any more.
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Regardess of what the preceding post was, this is moronic...

A) Conservatives don't hate ("have a problem with") women.

B) What does the right to control your own body have to do with being able to legally get away with killing another human being and destroying their body, as is the case in abortion? If you support this right to control your own body as a paramount value, then neither the GOP nor the Soci... *cough* Democrats should be getting your vote. The Obama administration has been exceedingly hostile to states relaxing on drug policy... Indeed busybody liberals are behind local-level legislation about happy meals and big sodas... that's "controlling your own body." Whether or not you should be allowed to kill someone else, yeah, not so much.
 
re: Indiana Republican: When life begins from rape, "God intended" it [W:266]

Anagram said:
Indiana Republican: When life begins from rape, God intended it | Reuters



Honestly, I think it is a reasonable and somewhat consistent position, although I don't agree with it. From the standpoint of someone trying to get elected in a close race with an unusually strong Libertarian candidate to splinter the Republican vote, it was just a stupid thing to say though. If it plays anything like Todd Akin's comment did, Joe Donnelly will take the senate seat from the Republicans in Indiana. I'd pretty much given up hope for the Republicans to take the senate this year anyway. Things looking very good for the GOP in 2014 though.
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Obviously this is a monumentally stupid thing for a politician to say, but it is an internally consistent position. If one believes in the existence of an omnipotent and omniscient deity, everything that happens must be his will. Of course if that's the case, it's hard to avoid the conclusion that God's kind of an asshole.
 
re: Indiana Republican: When life begins from rape, "God intended" it [W:266]

disneydude said:
It ABSOLUTELY is the platform of the GOP. The GOP platform calls for no exceptions. Period.
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No, it's not. Quote for us - here's the 2012 GOP platform. I'm sure it's in the platform the opposition invented to characterize the GOP platform (parrotted as truth by every partisan out there), but be honest, you've never even read the actual GOP platform have you?
 
re: Indiana Republican: When life begins from rape, "God intended" it [W:266]

rocket88 said:
But in both cases, the life or death occurred as a direct result of human action. Humans sometimes take actions that are not willed by God, thus the existence of sin. I can't philosophically imagine that God wills the result of the action, but not the action.
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I think Mourdock could respond that God doesn't will the result of the action until after the action has been done. He doesnt will the rape itself, but after it has been performed he believes that creating a child is the best thing to do. Again, it isn't my belief, but it seems logical if you believe life can only come from God.
 
re: Indiana Republican: When life begins from rape, "God intended" it [W:266]

Pinkie said:
Can I ask why anyone would argue the fine points of christian dogma on a thread about the POV of a man seeking to be elected? This is not a theocracy; I'm not christian.

Why do I have to surrender my reproductive rights just to comfort some MAN I never met in Indiana?

The hypocrisy here is just stunning.
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It's more philosophical than dogmatic. It's kind of nice to be able to disagree without it devolving into "Well, you're just a socialist pig." I'm very happy when some people can stay adult about the whole thing.
 
re: Indiana Republican: When life begins from rape, "God intended" it [W:266]

Pinkie said:
Can I ask why anyone would argue the fine points of christian dogma on a thread about the POV of a man seeking to be elected? This is not a theocracy; I'm not christian.

Why do I have to surrender my reproductive rights just to comfort some MAN I never met in Indiana?

The hypocrisy here is just stunning.
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You wouldn't and don't have to. One person doesn't decide that, not even one senator. Takes a super-majority typically to decide such matters and even then the POTUS has to sign off AND the courts have to give it the pass.
 
re: Indiana Republican: When life begins from rape, "God intended" it [W:266]

clownboy said:
You wouldn't and don't have to. One person doesn't decide that, not even one senator. Takes a super-majority typically to decide such matters and even then the POTUS has to sign off AND the courts have to give it the pass.
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Right now, there's a line the legislature cannot pass. If Romney is elected, he'll pack the Supreme Court and women may well lose their reproductive rights.

Remember to VOTE, ladies and those who love them.
 
re: Indiana Republican: When life begins from rape, "God intended" it [W:266]

rocket88 said:
It's more philosophical than dogmatic. It's kind of nice to be able to disagree without it devolving into "Well, you're just a socialist pig." I'm very happy when some people can stay adult about the whole thing.
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Then you'd be disappointed in me, since I have been foaming at the mouth over this crap since like 6:30 this morning, when I first read about it.

What next? Incest victims must carry to term, even if they would be at risk of suicide? Men get to "farm" women?

What stupid, ignorant, woman-hating crap will some GOP freak of nature say next?
 
re: Indiana Republican: When life begins from rape, "God intended" it [W:266]

Pinkie said:
Right now, there's a line the legislature cannot pass. If Romney is elected, he'll pack the Supreme Court and women may well lose their reproductive rights.

Remember to VOTE, ladies and those who love them.
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How is he going to pack the court? The more liberal justices getting long in the tooth can hold out another four years if they want. Heck, if they trusted Obama they'd have retired already.

Obama has already appointed two justices, you're not afraid he'll "pack the court". Try to think outside the one issue box.
 
re: Indiana Republican: When life begins from rape, "God intended" it [W:266]

Pinkie said:
Then you'd be disappointed in me, since I have been foaming at the mouth over this crap since like 6:30 this morning, when I first read about it.

What next? Incest victims must carry to term, even if they would be at risk of suicide? Men get to "farm" women?

What stupid, ignorant, woman-hating crap will some GOP freak of nature say next?
Click to expand...

It is a pretty ignorant thing to say. I'm not less appalled by it, just letting myself get drawn into philosophical stuff.
 
re: Indiana Republican: When life begins from rape, "God intended" it [W:266]

Pinkie said:
Then you'd be disappointed in me, since I have been foaming at the mouth over this crap since like 6:30 this morning, when I first read about it.

What next? Incest victims must carry to term, even if they would be at risk of suicide? Men get to "farm" women?

What stupid, ignorant, woman-hating crap will some GOP freak of nature say next?
Click to expand...

I haven't really seen many people on this thread actually agree with Mourdock's comment. I, at least, have only been arguing that Mourdock was being logically consistent and that he didn't necessarily mean god intended rape itself.
 
re: Indiana Republican: When life begins from rape, "God intended" it [W:266]

varium103 said:
Woah guys. Way to much goin on here. And you fail to see anything straight. Bad things happen to people. Why? Because things happen. People make bad choices.
I said earlier that God's intentions doesn't matter to us and that we need to obey his commands. One of you said we don't need to live by those. Well first of all most people think the bible is full of DON'T DOs. Don't do this. Don't do that. Rather they are warnings for what can happen to you if you do do them. God is trying to protect us here. Lets stay basic though because I know many of you don't know the bible. 10 commandments. VERY BASIC. If everyone in America lived by those. Do you think we would have a better country? Don't kill, don't steal, don't lie, don't covet, obey your parents etc. If you disagree then I this is just more personal reasoning that you don't want to believe in God and not having real logic.

They are going to happen whether you want them to or not. If you fail to see what good comes out of something bad thats your own fault.

I ran from the police once and spent 6 days in jail. My mistake, my consequence. That is a bad choice that led to a bad result. But actually I met some amazing people in jail, one I actually invited to church with me when he got out and he really did hit me up. I also learned why I never want to do wrong again to return to jail. So you have a choice. To look at everything negative. Or you can see what good came out of your situation.

I see a lot of you talking about morality and what not. I don't see any of you talking about the soliders who go on the front lines for civilians to basically be sacrificed for you to live in peace. But since that directly benefits you, its ok. Throwing them to the dogs is ok right? Cus thats what they as military signed up for. To die.

One thing I love about the Bible is how scary it is as much as it is amazing. The bible says God takes no pleasure in the suffering of others. But he is a just and fair God.

Choose whatever you want to believe. It's not my job to make you believe but rather lay it out infront of you so you can't say no one told you when you are before God. Every tongue will confess and every knee will bow. Oh how I love this. God get's the last word. I guess the only way to find out, is to die. See you on the other side!!
Click to expand...

Do you *need* the Bible or God to decide not to steal, lie, covet, murder, and obey your parents (if they're worth obeying, of course - some aren't) . . . do you need God telling you to do those things in order to actually do those things?

no - I don't think you do.

And what's with this: "I said earlier that God's intentions doesn't matter to us and that we need to obey his commands."
I say it absolutely matters what his intentions are if I'm suppose to govern my life according to his whims and will - eh? I'm not in the habit of jumping when random stranger say jump without giving me a good reason for it.

(the usual bit goes here - how I don't even believe God exists but still live life as a moral individual)
 
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