41 percent of adults don't work

[Erod]

The other unemployment rate - Oct. 18, 2012

"The employment-to-population ratio is the best measure of labor market conditions and it currently shows that there has been almost no improvement whatsoever over the past three years," Paul Ashworth, chief North American economist for Capital Economics said in a note to clients. The ratio is also telling because it means that 41% of working-age Americans are out of a job for one reason or another.

So four out of every 10 people you pass in the mall or see walking down the street don't work, for whatever reason, and do not personally generate an income, other than social security or welfare.

And of those who actually want a job, 13.5% of them are unemployed.

 

[lizzie]

I find that easy to believe, unfortunately.

 

[Kandahar]

So four out of every 10 people you pass in the mall or see walking down the street don't work, for whatever reason, and do not personally generate an income, other than social security or welfare.

Note that this includes people in nursing homes and hospices, college students, retirees, stay-at-home parents, and those who are independently wealthy. The fact that "there has been almost no improvement whatsoever over the past three years" is misleading, because a stable employment-to-population rate *is* an improvement when the population is growing older.

Not that I think you care about the economics behind this anyway. It's just another thing to bash Obama for. :roll:

 

[Erod]

Note that this includes people in nursing homes and hospices, college students, retirees, stay-at-home parents, and those who are independently wealthy. The fact that "there has been almost no improvement whatsoever over the past three years" is misleading, because a stable employment-to-population rate *is* an improvement when the population is growing older.

Not that I think you care about the economics behind this anyway. It's just another thing to bash Obama for. :roll:

Nice spin. It also includes a TON of people who have given up or are quite comfortable with that steady government check and food stamps.

41 percent is a TON of people, chief. And the CNN article doesn't agree with your take at all.

 

[ThePlayDrive]

What meaning am I supposed to get from this? If the 33% of people who don't work and don't want jobs is mostly students, retirees and stay at home parents, then who cares? If you're a student, then learning is your job. If you're retired, then you've already worked and are now (hopefully) enjoying life. If you are staying at home, then you have made a decision - probably with your partner - that this is best decision for your family. I don't see any of that as problem and if you do, then you're making value judgments that you haven't yet defended which is why I don't know what point you're trying to make.

As far other 7%, hopefully they'll be able to find work since unemployment is decreasing and the private sector is continuously adding jobs.

 

[ThePlayDrive]

Nice spin. It also includes a TON of people who have given up or are quite comfortable with that steady government check and food stamps.

That's an unsubstantiated assumption.

 

[Erod]

What meaning am I supposed to get from this? If the 33% of people who don't work and don't want jobs is mostly students, retirees and stay at home parents, then who cares? If you're a student, then learning is your job. If you're retired, then you've already worked and are now (hopefully) enjoying life. If you are staying at home, then you have made a decision - probably with your partner - that this is best decision for your family. I don't see any of that as problem and if you do, then you're making value judgments that you haven't yet defended which is why I don't know what point you're trying to make.

As far other 7%, hopefully they'll be able to find work since unemployment is decreasing and the private sector is continuously adding jobs.

If only that was happening....

Weekly Jobless Claims Drop Proves to Be Short-Lived - US Business News - CNBC

 

[KevinKohler]

That number is believable. College kids, retirees, lotto winners, disabled, etc.

I know a lot of people who have 2-3 jobs. The folks who can't find work....it's not that they can't find work, it's that they can't find work that really pays more than unemployment. It's what kept me out of a job for about 6 months. Once you buy a house, or have a family, taking any old job is no longer an option. If you HAVE to make at least 400 per week, taking a 9 dollar an hour part time gig is not gonna help you out, it's gonna hurt you.

 

[rocket88]

The other unemployment rate - Oct. 18, 2012

So four out of every 10 people you pass in the mall or see walking down the street don't work, for whatever reason, and do not personally generate an income, other than social security or welfare.

And of those who actually want a job, 13.5% of them are unemployed.

5 + 2.8 = 13.5??

 

[KevinKohler]

5 + 2.8 = 13.5??

You clearly don't understand republican math.

 

[ThePlayDrive]

If only that was happening....

Weekly Jobless Claims Drop Proves to Be Short-Lived - US Business News - CNBC

Um, I said that private sector jobs were being continuously added and that the unemployment rate was dropping. Both of those things are true, so I'm sure what you think "isn't happening" and what you think your link proves.

U.S. Economy Added 162,000 Private-Sector Jobs in September, According to ADP National Employment Report | ADP
http://www.bls.gov/news.release/pdf/empsit.pdf

 

[straykatz]

Retires, and those able bodied who stay at home by choice for various reasons should not be included in the unemployed numbers.

With that said....as far as those who have given up, taken part time work....this method of counting th ejobless occured in previous administrations too....don't blame Obama on the way the jobless numbers are factored.

 

[straykatz]

Um, I said that private sector jobs were being continuously added and that the unemployment rate was dropping. Both of those things are true, so I'm sure what you think "isn't happening" and what you think you're link proves.

U.S. Economy Added 162,000 Private-Sector Jobs in September, According to ADP National Employment Report | ADP
http://www.bls.gov/news.release/pdf/empsit.pdf

Sadly....Too many people are only willing to listen to doom and gloom and do not want to hear anything positive.

 

[Erod]

5 + 2.8 = 13.5??

Do I really have to do this for you?

OK.

59 percent of the people work, and 8 percent are looking for work. The rest don't want to work.

So of the 67 percent of people who work or want to work, 13.5 percent of them are out of work.

And thus, that is the effective unemployment rate according to the numbers presented in the CNN article.

Or, you could just read it.

 

[radcen]

What meaning am I supposed to get from this? If the 33% of people who don't work and don't want jobs is mostly students, retirees and stay at home parents, then who cares? If you're a student, then learning is your job. If you're retired, then you've already worked and are now (hopefully) enjoying life. If you are staying at home, then you have made a decision - probably with your partner - that this is best decision for your family. I don't see any of that as problem and if you do, then you're making value judgments that you haven't yet defended which is why I don't know what point you're trying to make.

As far other 7%, hopefully they'll be able to find work since unemployment is decreasing and the private sector is continuously adding jobs.

Yes, *if*. That's the critical aspect that the OP's graphic doesn't address adequately enough. If most are people who don't need a job, and thus don't want one, that's one thing. And no doubt that is indeed a large part of that group, I'm sure, we just aren't told how large.

On the flip side, there are no doubt people who simply aren't working because they are lazy and don't want to. Where is the line? Huge difference in personal motivation that affects what the chart purports to say. Maybe "need" should have been separated from "want".

Retires, and those able bodied who stay at home by choice for various reasons should not be included in the unemployed numbers.

With that said....as far as those who have given up, taken part time work....this method of counting th ejobless occured in previous administrations too....don't blame Obama on the way the jobless numbers are factored.

I think of it as more a societal mindset, not a Presidential thing.

 

[Kandahar]

Nice spin.

These two words alone confirm the obvious fact that you're just using some random statistic you saw as an excuse to bash Obama, rather than actually trying to make any point about the state of the economy. :roll:

It also includes a TON of people who have given up or are quite comfortable with that steady government check and food stamps.

There are statistics that measure those things, which DON'T also include all the groups who aren't interested in working like retirees, students, and stay-at-home parents. Might I suggest that those would be more accurate for whatever point you are trying to make.

41 percent is a TON of people, chief.

If it includes people who aren't looking for jobs, then it doesn't really *matter* whether it's a ton of people, as it doesn't give you much useful information for your point.

And the CNN article doesn't agree with your take at all.

Swell. I really care what some random CNN journalist thinks. Do you have a rebuttal to the obvious point that as our country grows older, one should EXPECT the employment-to-population ratio to decline? And that maintaining the status quo actually means that the job outlook is improving?

 

[Erod]

These two words alone confirm the obvious fact that you're just using some random statistic you saw as an excuse to bash Obama, rather than actually trying to make any point about the state of the economy. :roll:



There are statistics that measure those things, which DON'T also include all the groups who aren't interested in working like retirees, students, and stay-at-home parents. Might I suggest that those would be more accurate for whatever point you are trying to make.



If it includes people who aren't looking for jobs, then it doesn't really *matter* whether it's a ton of people, as it doesn't give you much useful information for your point.



Swell. I really care what some random CNN journalist thinks. Do you have a rebuttal to the obvious point that as our country grows older, one should EXPECT the employment-to-population ratio to decline? And that maintaining the status quo actually means that the job outlook is improving?

Actually, this was not meant as a bash at Obama at all, but America in general. That nebulous 33 percent number is the real story here, because I genuinely believe that a scary percent of that is people happy on the government teet. That is the disturbing trend we're on.

When welfare has jumped 32 percent in less than a half decade, that reflects the makeup of people, not just the economy.

Welfare spending jumps 32% in four years - Washington Times

 

[ThePlayDrive]

Actually, this was not meant as a bash at Obama at all, but America in general. That nebulous 33 percent number is the real story here, because I genuinely believe that a scary percent of that is people happy on the government teet. That is the disturbing trend we're on.

When welfare has jumped 32 percent in less than a half decade, that reflects the makeup of people, not just the economy.

Welfare spending jumps 32% in four years - Washington Times

All you're doing is making unsubstantiated value judgments on people. The fact is that people on welfare increased directly with increasing unemployment as the result of a failed economy. That you minimize that correlation and jump to "people just want to be on welfare" without anything to substantiate that jump is problematic, to say the least.

 

[Jonsa]

There are 86,000,000 people who are out of the labour force (it is unfortunate they are labelled "dont want work"/

Of that approximately 38,000,000 are retirees.
13.000,000 are students
5,174,000 are stay at home parents
1,460,000 are active duty military
2,300,000 are in prison
21,000,000 are permanently disabled
which totals 80,934,000

Leaving 5,066,000 able to work but not.

All of a sudden, when looking at the real picture and actually examining what out of hte labour force really means, the number is much less than doom an gloom

Its much less than righty would have you believe are leeching off their taxes and are too lazy to work.
Oh dear what a way to blow up righty's narrative with actual analysis of the numbers.

 

[Μολὼν λαβέ]

I was considering quitting my job and voting for Obama. I don't want to work any more either. :boohoo:

 

[Cameron]

Do I really have to do this for you?

OK.

59 percent of the people work, and 8 percent are looking for work. The rest don't want to work.

So of the 67 percent of people who work or want to work, 13.5 percent of them are out of work.

And thus, that is the effective unemployment rate according to the numbers presented in the CNN article.

Or, you could just read it.

But it's the same number of people under either formulation. So why is this method better, other than that it generates a more extreme-sounding number and so is easier for partisans to use to hype people up?

IMO, using a percentage of the total population is more sensible because the population changes less dramatically from month to month than the number of people "working or unemployed but looking for work" at any given time.

 

[Risky Thicket]

Nice spin. It also includes a TON of people who have given up or are quite comfortable with that steady government check and food stamps.

What to back that up with documentation or is it simply your opinion?

Want to give us a dollar figure on what the net monthly income is for the average family of four living on "a steady government check and food stamps"?

41 percent is a TON of people, chief. And the CNN article doesn't agree with your take at all.

Far too many people are unemployed. Jobs damn sure aren't trickling down. Please define "doesn't want to work". I looked for the survey to determine the design but couldn't find it. How was "doesn't want to work" determined?

 

[Jonsa]

What to back that up with documentation or is it simply your opinion?

Want to give us a dollar figure on what the net monthly income is for the average family of four living on "a steady government check and food stamps"?



Far too many people are unemployed. Jobs damn sure aren't trickling down. Please define "doesn't want to work". I looked for the survey to determine the design but couldn't find it. How was "doesn't want to work" determined?

I broke down the out of the labour force stats in Post #19. I got most of that from BLS. here

Labor Force Characteristics (CPS)

 

[Risky Thicket]

I broke down the out of the labour force stats in Post #19. I got most of that from BLS. here

Labor Force Characteristics (CPS)

Great stuff, Jonsa! Thank you. It's going to take me a while to go through the data, but in a cursory glance it appears to me that "not wanting to work" may also be "wanting to work, but discouraged".

A case in point. I have a friend who is 48. He was employed as a reporter for a major daily. Newspaper jobs now being in the crapper, he was rifted. He's been without employment for well over a year. The closest promising job offer he's had has been in Butt Whistle, Montana or some such place. He and his wife and family live in the SE U.S. She is still employed. They are making it, but just barely. Should they give up the house and her job and move the family to Butt Whistle? That would be stupid, not to mention costly. So what is he because he turned down the Butt Whistle job? Our friend Erod would have us think the poor bastard is living the good life and refusing employment. I would consider him unemployed and discouraged.

 

[the_recruit]

The other unemployment rate - Oct. 18, 2012

So four out of every 10 people you pass in the mall or see walking down the street don't work, for whatever reason, and do not personally generate an income, other than social security or welfare.

And of those who actually want a job, 13.5% of them are unemployed.

You forgot to include dead people They ain't working any more either. They just lay around doing nothing, lazy sonsabitches.