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41 percent of adults don't work

I'm not speaking for anybody else, but my conservative platform is, "Get off your butts, all you able-bodied folks, and stop playing the system!"

I see too many 20-somethings who do just this. Kids my kids went to school with. Some breed for benefits; some sling dope. And they think that those of us who do work are chumps. Seriously.

How about an old-fashioned return for these citizens to "You don't work--you don't eat"?
 
nota bene said:
I'm not speaking for anybody else, but my conservative platform is, "Get off your butts, all you able-bodied folks, and stop playing the system!"

I see too many 20-somethings who do just this. Kids my kids went to school with. Some breed for benefits; some sling dope. And they think that those of us who do work are chumps. Seriously.

How about an old-fashioned return for these citizens to "You don't work--you don't eat"?
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So I take it from you assertion that you assume that all of those unemployed do so only with the known benefit of reaping welfare rewards. Would you perhaps mind proving that the entire populace of unemployed are all lazy moochers as opposed to a generalized assertion that they're all lazy moochers?
 
Thirty-three percent is a very good number and I wish it were higher. A full fifty percent of American adults are women.
 
41% is actually a very good proportion when you compare it with the proportion of elite capitalists who actually have a positive work output

Recent statistics show that about 97% of Capitalists dont actually do any work - almost as high as the Royal family, whereby 100% dont actually do any work

(there is a negative correlation between work output and personal wealth and power within the elite fascist corporate capitalists running around in the USA - in fact they tend to NOT run but are carried for most of the time)

LAZY.jpg
 
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EnigmaIncognito said:
So I take it from you assertion that you assume that all of those unemployed do so only with the known benefit of reaping welfare rewards. Would you perhaps mind proving that the entire populace of unemployed are all lazy moochers as opposed to a generalized assertion that they're all lazy moochers?
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Why does anyone have to prove that the entire populace of unemployed are all lazy moochers? If you have one cheater in the system then it's worth doing something about. Are you saying that if only 10 percent are lazy moochers, then it's okay that they are....but if it were 70 percent you would feel different? Whatever percentage of cheating in the welfare there is.....it affects the rest of us , not just the working class but the deserving welfare recipients as well. The percentage has nothing to do with whether it is right or not.
 
melons said:
Why does anyone have to prove that the entire populace of unemployed are all lazy moochers? If you have one cheater in the system then it's worth doing something about.
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There's efficiency to consider. It's more efficient to let some cheaters get away with it than to design a system where they can't.

It would actually be cheaper in this country to give welfare benefits to everyone who asked for them than it is with our current investigative measures in place.
 
Viktyr Gehrig said:
There's efficiency to consider. It's more efficient to let some cheaters get away with it than to design a system where they can't.

It would actually be cheaper in this country to give welfare benefits to everyone who asked for them than it is with our current investigative measures in place.
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No, cheating the welfare system is equal to stealing. We don't a let a percentage of people who steal get away with it just because it would be expensive to use the court system or put them in jail. What if we did that? We aren't talking about these people stealing hundreds of dollars. It is thousands of dollars. That goes against of principles as Americans. We put people in jail for stealing much less than that.
 
melons said:
No, cheating the welfare system is equal to stealing. We don't a let a percentage of people who steal get away with it just because it would be expensive to use the court system or put them in jail.
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I agree with this. But retail stores also seek to prevent theft, and they aren't willing to spend more on theft prevention than they make by selling the products. There is such a concept as "shrinkage", acceptable losses, that we simply must accept as the price of doing business because otherwise we can't afford to do business at all.

Nobody likes the welfare system, but we need it. I want to spend as little money on it as possible while providing the services we need. When fraud is cheaper than fraud prevention, I would rather tolerate the fraud.
 
Viktyr Gehrig said:
I agree with this. But retail stores also seek to prevent theft, and they aren't willing to spend more on theft prevention than they make by selling the products. There is such a concept as "shrinkage", acceptable losses, that we simply must accept as the price of doing business because otherwise we can't afford to do business at all.

Nobody likes the welfare system, but we need it. I want to spend as little money on it as possible while providing the services we need. When fraud is cheaper than fraud prevention, I would rather tolerate the fraud.
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With no idea how much fraud there is out there, you can't make that kind of educated assumption. First you have to know how much your losing to know if it is worthwhile and that is my point.
 
EnigmaIncognito said:
So I take it from you assertion that you assume that all of those unemployed do so only with the known benefit of reaping welfare rewards. Would you perhaps mind proving that the entire populace of unemployed are all lazy moochers as opposed to a generalized assertion that they're all lazy moochers?
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That's your hasty, unfair overgeneralization, not mine. :3oops:
 
melons said:
Why does anyone have to prove that the entire populace of unemployed are all lazy moochers?
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Because I'm very skeptical of anything that doesn't provide reliable and objective evidence to back up it's claims.

If you have one cheater in the system then it's worth doing something about. Are you saying that if only 10 percent are lazy moochers, then it's okay that they are....but if it were 70 percent you would feel different? Whatever percentage of cheating in the welfare there is.....it affects the rest of us , not just the working class but the deserving welfare recipients as well. The percentage has nothing to do with whether it is right or not.
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Viktyr made a good argument for why it's inefficient to worry over minimal losses when attempting to fix those losses would result in only greater loss in of itself.

As you also mentioned "With no idea how much fraud there is out there, you can't make that kind of educated assumption. First you have to know how much your losing to know if it is worthwhile and that is my point."; so in this case it would be essential to find the statistical data relevant for our debate. If the amount of welfare fraud is minimal though, then it can be excusable for pragmatic reasons.

nota bene said:
That's your hasty, unfair overgeneralization, not mine. :3oops:
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Uh, no, you're the one who made the assertion that a majority of 20-somethings "play the system, breed for benefits, and sling dope" (paraphrasing here). If you're going to assert that many 20-somethings are staying unemployed to cheat the system then the burden of proof to back up your claim rests upon you.
 
EnigmaIncognito said:
Because I'm very skeptical of anything that doesn't provide reliable and objective evidence to back up it's claims.



Viktyr made a good argument for why it's inefficient to worry over minimal losses when attempting to fix those losses would result in only greater loss in of itself.

As you also mentioned "With no idea how much fraud there is out there, you can't make that kind of educated assumption. First you have to know how much your losing to know if it is worthwhile and that is my point."; so in this case it would be essential to find the statistical data relevant for our debate. If the amount of welfare fraud is minimal though, then it can be excusable for pragmatic reasons.



Uh, no, you're the one who made the assertion that a majority of 20-somethings "play the system, breed for benefits, and sling dope" (paraphrasing here). If you're going to assert that many 20-somethings are staying unemployed to cheat the system then the burden of proof to back up your claim rests upon you.
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Well, I would say that if there was as much fraud in medicare and medicaid as has been discovered in recent years, then it would make perfect sense that there is just as much fraud in welfare, HUD housing and food stamps.

Not sure how you could get statistical data unless you obviously began to investigate.
 
I am 66, retired, enjoying it. The wife and I are spending our money, and I hope we are contributing to the economy. Seems to me that if the govt encouraged more people to retire (those that can, but haven't), it would improve employment chances for the younger ones among us.
 
This problem isnt just Americas its the whole of the Western word. People brought up their kids with this belief that they were special and they could do whatever they wanted to, then they went to University and got an average degree. After Uni they joined the market place ecpecting that 50k-80k job with benefits because thats what they deserve with their degree, when it doesnt work out they refuse to work anything they deem "below them" and walk around blaming everyone else. Example when I moved to the US I took a part time job that had been open for months ( no one wanted it) worked hard as well as working a second job landscaping, after 6 months my employee liked my work ethic and offered me full time with benefits. That job could of been anyones but no one was willing to put in the dirty work instead they wanted it handed to them on a plate.
 
the_recruit said:
You forgot to include dead people They ain't working any more either. They just lay around doing nothing, lazy sonsabitches.
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of course Obama values them for their votes
 
Erod said:
Nice spin. It also includes a TON of people who have given up or are quite comfortable with that steady government check and food stamps.

41 percent is a TON of people, chief. And the CNN article doesn't agree with your take at all.
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If you want to talk about the people getting government checks, then start a thread with that number and statistics. You've given the statistic that includes stay at home moms and parents etc. ****, the republican candidate is in that category. Think about it before you make a thread, lol.
 
Erod said:
Yep, those dead people are certainly not lazy enough to stop from voting Democrat.
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what is that joke-what does Osama Bin Laden, Abraham Lincoln and John wayne Gacey all have in common?

they are all registered to vote in Cook County
 
This is asinine. How can you lump housewives, retirees, and students in with welfare bums?


Erod said:
The other unemployment rate - Oct. 18, 2012

121018013243-infographic-unemployment-101812-story-top.jpg






So four out of every 10 people you pass in the mall or see walking down the street don't work, for whatever reason, and do not personally generate an income, other than social security or welfare.

And of those who actually want a job, 13.5% of them are unemployed.
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Erod said:
The other unemployment rate - Oct. 18, 2012

121018013243-infographic-unemployment-101812-story-top.jpg






So four out of every 10 people you pass in the mall or see walking down the street don't work, for whatever reason, and do not personally generate an income, other than social security or welfare.

And of those who actually want a job, 13.5% of them are unemployed.
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But your chart says seven percent.
 
Erod said:
The other unemployment rate - Oct. 18, 2012

121018013243-infographic-unemployment-101812-story-top.jpg






So four out of every 10 people you pass in the mall or see walking down the street don't work, for whatever reason, and do not personally generate an income, other than social security or welfare.

And of those who actually want a job, 13.5% of them are unemployed.
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I bet it used to be higher whengood jobs were around and it was much easier to have one stay at home parent and when people werent so materialistic
 
joko104 said:
The constant lie of Obama and Democrats is that active military was in the "47%" Romney stated. Active military are not counted as unemployed or in that "47%," just like any other federal employee is not counted.
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They are a part of that "47%" when that "47%" is talking about those who don't pay taxes. Not all of them, but many, especially many with families or who have been out in a combat zone. They are still taxpayers but still often get back more than they paid in. I know because this has been true for my family for a while. Last year, the year before, my family got back more in refunds than we paid in. And all of our income came from the military.
 
upsideguy said:
Wrong. Not everyone without a job is looking for a job... and not everyone not looking for a job is living on the government dole. I think you need to better understand the 33%....

I, for one, am of the 33%.... I do not have job, nor do I collect any government money. I am an entrepreneur, with my own business. I have created 60 jobs in the past 3 years, but I do not have a job. I do not count in the job stats. I did have a job in 2008, but I never have looked for work since leaving that job. I am NOT a discouraged unemployed.

In fact, you will find in the "new economy" the fastest growing segment is the one man consulting company. These people are not counted as employed nor are they necessarily looking for work. Most of them are more than happy to free-lance....

People are awfully obsessed with jobs. The problem is that unemployment and job stats do not accurately reflect what is really going on in our economy.

BTW... please explain your 13.5% number as it isn't apparent.
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I'm in that "33%" too. I go to school and stay at home with the kids. I have no desire to have a job during this time, especially not when I have to do duty once a year and one weekend a month.
 
Holy Freak-a-statistics!
 
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