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Pakistani Taliban Shoots 14 Year Old Activist

Wen you look back on US history and see how women were treated until recently and how minorities have been treated. Then you look how long it took to get equal rights for women and minorities, you can see that our struggle with freedom hasn't been a simpe or easy road. I don't expect the struggle under Taliban rule will be any less difficult. Women in our country used to be treated a property and their treatment was a matter of religious values. Minorities gined the right to vote, but were not allowed to exercise that right in the south until the 60s. I am simply pointing out that freedom and equal rights wasn't easy to gain in this country and it won't be easy to gain half a world away.

I don't want to add to the dog-pile, but I'm going to because I just can't ignore the blatantly disingenous comparison of women only gaining the vote 100 years into a 200-year old country, and civil rights struggles 50 years ago with a country that refuses to educate their female children, and has repeatedly murdered said female children, often by locking them inside the school house and burning them alive.

Females in America have been "allowed" education since the 18th century. No females that I know of have every been slaughtered for trying to learn to read. Slavery was bad, mkay? But comparing 19th century slavery to the wanton slaughter of entire villages that do not adhere to an extreme jihadist tenant that treats women as disposable property, able to be legally murdered at will by ANY male who feels like doing the deed to the fact that women have "only" had the vote for 100 years is utterly laughable.

You don't "expect the struggle under Taliban rule will be any less difficult"? Are you joking? Women have been educated in this country since its inception. Although slaves were "property" until the Civil War, "women" were not. Comparing those social struggles over the past century to the oppressive barbarism that is Taliban rule in Afghanistan and Pakistan is akin to comparing the fact that women and minorities were not allowed to vote until the 20th century to the horror of the holocaust... and finding them equal!!

I'm truly astounded.
 
In 1984 I traveled to Kabul on business. I met some really sweet people there. A lot of the population (100% SPECULATION) are ignorant and even worthless. But then there are the better ones who are helpless against such vicious assholes.

So, there's a side of me that feels for the nice ones trapped there and another side that doesn't want to make sacrifices for the not so useful ones. On balance, I think it's time to go home.
 
Sometimes "the people" can't. The notion that oppressed people need just rise up and free themselves of their bonds is, frankly, naive and often wrong. Successful revolutions without foreign assistance are rare, as demonstrated throughout history and even current events today. The Socialist revolt in Afghanistan never would have succeeded without Soviet intervention and, ironically, the Mujahideen resistance against the Soviet intervention never would have succeeded without heavy US and Saudi assistance.

Or look at the Arab Spring. The reason Egypt and Tunisia successfully overturned their governments without war is because the government willfully stepped aside rather than engage in widespread violence and suppression of its people. On the other hand, in countries like Libya and Syria where the government is prepared to conduct terrible violence on its people, revolutions are not so successful. It's no mystery which kind of government the Taliban are. Polls show support for the Taliban among Afghans is at an all time low, 30% or so I believe.

I for one am willing to invest some US tax dollars (gasp!) on selective interventions toward human rights and/or stable governments across the world.

I am not personally willing to invest US tax dollars to fix problems which cannot be fixed by US tax dollars. It's not as if there is mass genocide happening over there, or as if something totally new and unexpected is going on, but that is not the case. We could stay there forever, and waste money and the lives of our own young men, for a bunch of people who don't even like us, and to me, that is insane. We aren't the appointed savior of the world, nor should we be. We can't even afford to take care of ourselves anymore, for God's sake.
 
I don't want to add to the dog-pile, but I'm going to because I just can't ignore the blatantly disingenous comparison of women only gaining the vote 100 years into a 200-year old country, and civil rights struggles 50 years ago with a country that refuses to educate their female children, and has repeatedly murdered said female children, often by locking them inside the school house and burning them alive.

Females in America have been "allowed" education since the 18th century. No females that I know of have every been slaughtered for trying to learn to read. Slavery was bad, mkay? But comparing 19th century slavery to the wanton slaughter of entire villages that do not adhere to an extreme jihadist tenant that treats women as disposable property, able to be legally murdered at will by ANY male who feels like doing the deed to the fact that women have "only" had the vote for 100 years is utterly laughable.

You don't "expect the struggle under Taliban rule will be any less difficult"? Are you joking? Women have been educated in this country since its inception. Although slaves were "property" until the Civil War, "women" were not. Comparing those social struggles over the past century to the oppressive barbarism that is Taliban rule in Afghanistan and Pakistan is akin to comparing the fact that women and minorities were not allowed to vote until the 20th century to the horror of the holocaust... and finding them equal!!

I'm truly astounded.

I never said that the struggle of women and minorities was as bad as what is going on in some Islamic countries. However, you made it sound like things were great for women before they got the vote. Women were viewed as property, and domestic violence wasn't even taken seriously in this country until about 20 years ago. You should look more into all the injustices women faced for 150 years in this country before they gained the right to vote. They were judged by men in courts. When they left their husbands, the husbands often got the children. If they acted out emotionally, they were put into insane asylums where they got shock treatment to “cure” their emotional illness. It wasn't a pretty picture for a lot of women in this country. You should study the women’s suffrage movement in this country. Then we had the civil rights movement. Prior to this movement, many states in the south could lynch black people when ever they felt those black people where stepping out of their social boundaries. I know it’s hard to see the violence and lack of respect for equal rights in this country in the past, but it doesn’t make our past go away.
I am also not saying any of this to side with those committing atrocities in those Islamic countries. I am simply saying that if anyone expected the change in these countries to go smoothly, they are fooling themselves.
 
Μολὼν λαβέ;1061003713 said:
Murder apologist for the Taliban; got it.

Nothing in what I have said indicates that I am apologizing for the Taliban. I have no respect for people who harm other people to gain political power.
 
I never said that the struggle of women and minorities was as bad as what is going on in some Islamic countries. However, you made it sound like things were great for women before they got the vote. Women were viewed as property, and domestic violence wasn't even taken seriously in this country until about 20 years ago.

No, they weren't. Twenty years ago, women were educated, climbing the corporate ladder, NOT viewed as property and domestic violence was taken seriously despite the fact that rape and DV victims were not given the support they are now given. I've lived a long time. I've lived through the eras that you are describing, although I doubt that you have.

You should look more into all the injustices women faced for 150 years in this country before they gained the right to vote. They were judged by men in courts. When they left their husbands, the husbands often got the children. If they acted out emotionally, they were put into insane asylums where they got shock treatment to “cure” their emotional illness. It wasn't a pretty picture for a lot of women in this country. You should study the women’s suffrage movement in this country.

Women were second-class citizens, true. They were NOT considered "property", they were NOT legally murdered, and as for the insane asylum crap you'll have to back that with some legitimate documentation that the majority of women who "acted out emotionally" were put to shock treatments because they left their husbands. I have studied the women's suffrage movement in this country. I'll do you one better. I've actually lived through much of it. What you describe is not the common experience of the vast majority of women in that age; it is the over-the-top rhetoric of unproven, undocumented histrionics by those who insist that not only were sufferagettes harassesed, arrested, and insulted, they were brutalized, tortured and destroyed. Prove it. You can't. Yes, women marched for prohibition, marched for voting rights, were vilified, jostled and taken to jail in some cases. They were not murdered en masse.

Then we had the civil rights movement. Prior to this movement, many states in the south could lynch black people when ever they felt those black people where stepping out of their social boundaries. I know it’s hard to see the violence and lack of respect for equal rights in this country in the past, but it doesn’t make our past go away.

Again, I've lived through the civil rights movement. Blacks were indeed lynched; however, you are implying that they were lynched by the thousands and legally so. That is a total fabrication. Thing is, it was against the law to murder blacks because they were "uppity", so the lynchings were covered up because they were illegal. The KKK hid their identities for a reason. Entire towns of blacks were not slaughtered. Females and blacks were not locked into schools, and burned alive. It is a stain on our history. It is NOT akin to the holocaust, as you would imply because you have read a few books and believe you understand the totality of what the 1950's and 1960's were like in certain areas of the country. I lived it. You are quite simply wrong.

I am also not saying any of this to side with those committing atrocities in those Islamic countries. I am simply saying that if anyone expected the change in these countries to go smoothly, they are fooling themselves.

Nobody expects these countries to go from midieval barbarism to equality and democracy to go smoothly. Your insistence that there is even the slightest similarity between the achievement of female and minority rights in the past 50 years and what the extremist Islamic regimes are LEGALLY doing to terrorize and slaughter their own populace is disingenuous, dishonest, and based on a complete ignorance of reality, not only of our own actual (not inflated and exaggerated) history but what is being done on an unprecedented scale at this very moment halfway around the world. Did you march for the Civil Rights Movement? I did.

It's bothersome that you still cannot see the enormous rift between the comparisons you are trying to make, and the falacy you seem unable to recognize.
 
No, they weren't. Twenty years ago, women were educated, climbing the corporate ladder, NOT viewed as property and domestic violence was taken seriously despite the fact that rape and DV victims were not given the support they are now given. I've lived a long time. I've lived through the eras that you are describing, although I doubt that you have.



Women were second-class citizens, true. They were NOT considered "property", they were NOT legally murdered, and as for the insane asylum crap you'll have to back that with some legitimate documentation that the majority of women who "acted out emotionally" were put to shock treatments because they left their husbands. I have studied the women's suffrage movement in this country. I'll do you one better. I've actually lived through much of it. What you describe is not the common experience of the vast majority of women in that age; it is the over-the-top rhetoric of unproven, undocumented histrionics by those who insist that not only were sufferagettes harassesed, arrested, and insulted, they were brutalized, tortured and destroyed. Prove it. You can't. Yes, women marched for prohibition, marched for voting rights, were vilified, jostled and taken to jail in some cases. They were not murdered en masse.



Again, I've lived through the civil rights movement. Blacks were indeed lynched; however, you are implying that they were lynched by the thousands and legally so. That is a total fabrication. Thing is, it was against the law to murder blacks because they were "uppity", so the lynchings were covered up because they were illegal. The KKK hid their identities for a reason. Entire towns of blacks were not slaughtered. Females and blacks were not locked into schools, and burned alive. It is a stain on our history. It is NOT akin to the holocaust, as you would imply because you have read a few books and believe you understand the totality of what the 1950's and 1960's were like in certain areas of the country. I lived it. You are quite simply wrong.



Nobody expects these countries to go from midieval barbarism to equality and democracy to go smoothly. Your insistence that there is even the slightest similarity between the achievement of female and minority rights in the past 50 years and what the extremist Islamic regimes are LEGALLY doing to terrorize and slaughter their own populace is disingenuous, dishonest, and based on a complete ignorance of reality, not only of our own actual (not inflated and exaggerated) history but what is being done on an unprecedented scale at this very moment halfway around the world. Did you march for the Civil Rights Movement? I did.

It's bothersome that you still cannot see the enormous rift between the comparisons you are trying to make, and the falacy you seem unable to recognize.

Once again, I never said that what is happening in the Middle East is just like what happened here in the US. I Originally made a comment on a post that was about how the people in these Islamic countries act as though they are not ready for freedom. I compared the US transition to freedom wasn't as smooth as alot of people seemed to think it was. I am older than you think. I lived through the 60s also. I was also talking about the nearly 200 years prior to the civil rights movement. You are running right past my point and turning what I have said into something else.
I will say this though, it is against the law to shoot 14 year old girls in Pakistan. All of the Islamic countries are not the same. You can't just lump them all up together. The only reason I compared the struggles the people in the ME are going through to gain their freedom to what the US went through during our struggle to gain freedom was to make the point that it will take these countries a lot of time and struggle just like it took us a lot of time and struggle to reach that goal.
 
Malala Yousafzai: Pakistan bullet surgery 'successful'

Surgeons say they have successfully removed a bullet from the campaigning 14-year-old schoolgirl shot by Taliban gunmen in Pakistan's Swat Valley.

Malala Yousafzai is reported to be in a stable condition after Wednesday morning's operation in Peshawar.

The attack, in which two other girls were wounded, has been widely condemned and sparked a social media firestorm.

--snip--

Pakistani politicians led by the president and prime minister condemned the shooting, which the US state department has called barbaric and cowardly. Link

I don't see this as a turning point yet, the Swat valley remains a base for the Taliban despite the Pakistani army offensive in 2009. While I think official support for the Taliban in Pakistan may be lower than it was (around 30%) the aims of the Taliban still have a strong groundswell of support within Pakistani society.
 
Once again, I never said that what is happening in the Middle East is just like what happened here in the US. I Originally made a comment on a post that was about how the people in these Islamic countries act as though they are not ready for freedom. I compared the US transition to freedom wasn't as smooth as alot of people seemed to think it was. I am older than you think. I lived through the 60s also. I was also talking about the nearly 200 years prior to the civil rights movement. You are running right past my point and turning what I have said into something else.
I will say this though, it is against the law to shoot 14 year old girls in Pakistan. All of the Islamic countries are not the same. You can't just lump them all up together. The only reason I compared the struggles the people in the ME are going through to gain their freedom to what the US went through during our struggle to gain freedom was to make the point that it will take these countries a lot of time and struggle just like it took us a lot of time and struggle to reach that goal.


Ah, yes - - that much fabled Taliban struggle for freedom.

Why people all can't get on board with it by rationalizing it away must be testament to their lack of properly progressive attitudes.

We are truly living in Orwellian times.
 
"A spokesman for the Taliban in Pakistan's Swat Valley confirmed the terror organization was behind the shooting of a 14-year-old activist Tuesday.
Malala Yousafzai was targeted by the Taliban because she is an outspoken advocate and supporter of education for girls. She was shot in the head on her way home from school in the main city of Mingora.


According to one source inside the Pakistani Taliban, the terrorist organization felt threatened by the young girl because of her pro-west sentiments and promotion of Western cultures, her outspokenness against the Taliban and her love for U.S. President Barack Obama.


Although the brutal attempted murder of such a young girl was met with outrage among many Pakistanis, a spokesman for the Taliban said they would target the girl again if she survived the shot to the head."

Pakistani Taliban Shoots 14 Year Old Activist - Global Agenda - News - Israel National News

As long as there are courageous people like this girl there is hope that someday people will experience those freedoms that many of us enjoy as a way of life. Life among the Taliban is a living hell.

As long as regular Muslims do not stand up to these animals then people will think that Muslims as a whole condone these animals.
 
I am not personally willing to invest US tax dollars to fix problems which cannot be fixed by US tax dollars. It's not as if there is mass genocide happening over there, or as if something totally new and unexpected is going on, but that is not the case. We could stay there forever, and waste money and the lives of our own young men, for a bunch of people who don't even like us, and to me, that is insane. We aren't the appointed savior of the world, nor should we be. We can't even afford to take care of ourselves anymore, for God's sake.

The problem, Lizzie, is that you cannot walk away from radical Islam because they would have to walk away from you as well, and they are not doing that.

We saw what happened in Dearborn last week and, as their numbers increase, so will their demands and their militancy. We can also see the growth of radical Islamism on University campuses in many areas of the western world.

Radical Islam gains ground in campuses | World news | The Observer

http://www.investigativeproject.org/documents/misc/31.pdf

The Islamists learned a lot from the Leftists of the 60's and 70's which is to infiltrate the universities, the media and Hollywood. They have had great success since then, with a remarkable 'dumbing down', and that has contributed greatly to the situation we see today.

It seems that if Americans genuinely wants to isolate itself from Islam and Islamists then they will have to control their borders and enforce stricter immigration laws as well.
 
I never said that the struggle of women and minorities was as bad as what is going on in some Islamic countries. However, you made it sound like things were great for women before they got the vote. Women were viewed as property, and domestic violence wasn't even taken seriously in this country until about 20 years ago. You should look more into all the injustices women faced for 150 years in this country before they gained the right to vote. They were judged by men in courts. When they left their husbands, the husbands often got the children. If they acted out emotionally, they were put into insane asylums where they got shock treatment to “cure” their emotional illness. It wasn't a pretty picture for a lot of women in this country. You should study the women’s suffrage movement in this country. Then we had the civil rights movement. Prior to this movement, many states in the south could lynch black people when ever they felt those black people where stepping out of their social boundaries. I know it’s hard to see the violence and lack of respect for equal rights in this country in the past, but it doesn’t make our past go away.
I am also not saying any of this to side with those committing atrocities in those Islamic countries. I am simply saying that if anyone expected the change in these countries to go smoothly, they are fooling themselves.

Hairytic, the point is not what happened in the US, Canada, Austria or Japan 100 years ago, it is what is happening in much of Islam today, and what can we do about it. If you dig around in any country's past you are sure to find something negative, but how does that help Muslim schoolgirls being murdered today? Or women treated worse than animals? Or Gays being stoned to death or hanged in the public square?

Some perspective, and some common sense as well, should be used here.
 
Hairytic, the point is not what happened in the US, Canada, Austria or Japan 100 years ago, it is what is happening in much of Islam today, and what can we do about it. If you dig around in any country's past you are sure to find something negative, but how does that help Muslim schoolgirls being murdered today? Or women treated worse than animals? Or Gays being stoned to death or hanged in the public square?

Some perspective, and some common sense as well, should be used here.

This all started because someone early on in the thread said something about Afghanis not being ready for domocracy and freedom. I simply pointed out the process to freedom is a long struggle and referenced the US struggle with bringing about equal rights to its people. The problem is, this thread started with the girl in Pakistan being shot, and it went to what is going on in Afghanistan. Pakistan and Afghanistan are countries that opperate very differently. However, the process to bringing about freedom, democracy, and equal rights is the same. It takes generations of hard work to change a culture.

Some people took offense to what I said, completely ignoring the context it was said in and ignoring history as the evidence.
 
ignoring history as the evidence.

Actually, some of us should be thanking you for illuminating the issue as you have done. I was actually quite startled at how little I knew of the situation.

I had not realized Pakistan was Arab. For some strange reason, I had listened to my teachers in school when it came time for Geography and world cultures, and so this Arab spring coming to Pakistan took me quite by surprise.

I also had not realized that the Taliban was struggling as it was because it sought that sweet, sweet freedom. Silly me -- I am the first to admit my guilt in being taken in by the mainstream media which told about their destruction of ancient Buddhist monuments, their systematic brutalization of women and their support for terrorism, I had not realized they only did these things in pursuit of freedom.

What really embarrasses me, though, is how little I realized 20 years ago that I was living in a culture just like the Pashtun. I mean, there I was raising children and working away and I completely missed it. My goodness, I must have been a fool to have failed to notice that women were chattel. I imagine that all those women teachers of mine as well as the female doctors and lawyers and business people were only telling me otherwise because the men who owned them were telling them to say this. I can think of no other possible reason! To make matters worse -- I hadn't even realized I owned my own wife! Good grief, had I known at the time, maybe I could have given her a few good beatings, a clitorectomy, slapped her in a burka and be done with it. What an idiot I was, not realizing it was all the same here as it is there.

Do allow me to offer my thanks here for the history lesson you have provided. It is like an epiphany for me here! Oops, I suppose I shouldn't say a word like epiphany that might perturb the Talibani. Perhaps I should just say thank you for this history lesson -- it has been a real eye opener.

.
 
This all started because someone early on in the thread said something about Afghanis not being ready for domocracy and freedom. I simply pointed out the process to freedom is a long struggle and referenced the US struggle with bringing about equal rights to its people. The problem is, this thread started with the girl in Pakistan being shot, and it went to what is going on in Afghanistan. Pakistan and Afghanistan are countries that opperate very differently. However, the process to bringing about freedom, democracy, and equal rights is the same. It takes generations of hard work to change a culture.

Some people took offense to what I said, completely ignoring the context it was said in and ignoring history as the evidence.

And what good dod it do to point out something that everyone knows? All is did, as we can see, is to detract from the subject at hand.
 
Actually, some of us should be thanking you for illuminating the issue as you have done. I was actually quite startled at how little I knew of the situation.

I had not realized Pakistan was Arab. For some strange reason, I had listened to my teachers in school when it came time for Geography and world cultures, and so this Arab spring coming to Pakistan took me quite by surprise.

I also had not realized that the Taliban was struggling as it was because it sought that sweet, sweet freedom. Silly me -- I am the first to admit my guilt in being taken in by the mainstream media which told about their destruction of ancient Buddhist monuments, their systematic brutalization of women and their support for terrorism, I had not realized they only did these things in pursuit of freedom.

What really embarrasses me, though, is how little I realized 20 years ago that I was living in a culture just like the Pashtun. I mean, there I was raising children and working away and I completely missed it. My goodness, I must have been a fool to have failed to notice that women were chattel. I imagine that all those women teachers of mine as well as the female doctors and lawyers and business people were only telling me otherwise because the men who owned them were telling them to say this. I can think of no other possible reason! To make matters worse -- I hadn't even realized I owned my own wife! Good grief, had I known at the time, maybe I could have given her a few good beatings, a clitorectomy, slapped her in a burka and be done with it. What an idiot I was, not realizing it was all the same here as it is there.

Do allow me to offer my thanks here for the history lesson you have provided. It is like an epiphany for me here! Oops, I suppose I shouldn't say a word like epiphany that might perturb the Talibani. Perhaps I should just say thank you for this history lesson -- it has been a real eye opener.

.

You don't read very well. I never said the Taliban is stuggling for freedom. My original comment was about Afghanistan because it was mentioned on the first page of this thread. Pakistanis in the Middle East. People in many countries in the ME are starting to fight for their equal rights. When I was speakng of American history, I wasn't talking about 20 years ago. Either you can not read well or you do not retain the information you read. I suggest you go back through my posts and get a better grip on what I said before you post another comment on this.
 
And what good dod it do to point out something that everyone knows? All is did, as we can see, is to detract from the subject at hand.

Why are you so bent out of shape over what I said? If you don't want a detraction from the subject, then don't respond to my posts.
 
The freedom loving people in the ME and that general area will be a struggle not much different than our own struggle for freedom. If you study US history, you will see that all Americans didn't want anything to do with the revolution. Once we won our independence, things didn't just fall into place perfectly. Agianing freedom and equal rights is a hard struggle, and once we get it, it is also a struggle to keep it.
They have many role models to go by. They too have people who are enlightened. Now they show the willingness to risk their lives to bring about freedom. I see it as a good thing.

I taught US History. I don't think that you are truly understanding the difference in culture or religion.

I said nothing of enlightened "people" but I did speak of the "Enlightenment". This was a paradigm shift in thinking about many things but most importantly science and politics and this is something that the people in the Middle East are severly lacking on a cultural level.

I don't see them risking their lives to bring about freedom but rather a different type of authoritarian rule and the struggle for freedom in the ME and the USA is/was VASTLY different.
 
You don't read very well. I never said the Taliban is stuggling for freedom. My original comment was about Afghanistan because it was mentioned on the first page of this thread. Pakistanis in the Middle East. People in many countries in the ME are starting to fight for their equal rights. When I was speakng of American history, I wasn't talking about 20 years ago. Either you can not read well or you do not retain the information you read. I suggest you go back through my posts and get a better grip on what I said before you post another comment on this.

Pakistan is in South Asia... not the Middle East.

This all started because someone early on in the thread said something about Afghanis not being ready for domocracy and freedom. I simply pointed out the process to freedom is a long struggle and referenced the US struggle with bringing about equal rights to its people. The problem is, this thread started with the girl in Pakistan being shot, and it went to what is going on in Afghanistan. Pakistan and Afghanistan are countries that opperate very differently. However, the process to bringing about freedom, democracy, and equal rights is the same. It takes generations of hard work to change a culture.

Some people took offense to what I said, completely ignoring the context it was said in and ignoring history as the evidence.

Look. We are in the 21st Century. Not the 3rd BCE, 2nd CE 17th or 18th Centuries when all of our "struggles" were taking place. It doesn't take months for news to travel... it takes seconds. We embraced ideas like Greece's democracy, Rome's republic, the Magna Charta, the Enlightened thinkers like Voltaire, Hobbes, Locke, Montesque (sp?), Jefferson and Franklin and the people's of the Middle East did not.

It is supremely easy, yet naive, to sit back and make the claims that you are. That we struggled for freedom and so are they. They are. Nobody denies that. The issue is that they have a culture and religion that is contrary to what we consider to be good human rights. It is ingrained in their mindset and even those "freedom loving Arabs and such" that come to freedom loving places like the USA and New Zealand still practice forms of oppression on their women. We can all see it. Even many moderate Muslims. I honestly don't think that you are thinking about this as deeply as you think that you are.

At no time did any of what we now considet our Western governments allow for stoning people to death. For beheading people for being gay. For killing young girls that are raped and allowing the men to go free. For killing anybody that decides to not be Muslim anymore. Nothing close. Not 20 years ago nor 300 years ago.
 
The Marine squad leader we know who was in the Helman District came to have a VERY low opinion of the Afghani people, who he saw as dedicated to deliberately remaining ignorant. He recalled talking to one and asking him wouldn't he like for his son to have an education and improve his life. The man replied no, that some day his son would have his sheep herd like he had from his father, so his son's life was determined when he was born, such is the will of Allah.

The longer he was there, the less he liked them and the more he didn't care what happened to them.

I have a similar story from a buddy of mine who was in the 101st. He absolutely hates afghans. Specifically, actually. He also did a tour in Iraq, but had nothing too awfully negative to say about them...but he HATES afghans, for the exact reason you cited...a willful determination to remain ignorant. He hated talking to them, dealing with them, etc. Before he got wounded, he said if he had to do ONE MORE tour there, he was gonna quit.
 
The problem, Lizzie, is that you cannot walk away from radical Islam because they would have to walk away from you as well, and they are not doing that.

We saw what happened in Dearborn last week and, as their numbers increase, so will their demands and their militancy. We can also see the growth of radical Islamism on University campuses in many areas of the western world.

Then I would suggest that we focus on here, and not overseas. We are wasting money and lives fighting battles for them, when he have our own crap to deal with.
 
Then I would suggest that we focus on here, and not overseas. We are wasting money and lives fighting battles for them, when he have our own crap to deal with.

Ah, but we can't so easily exploit our natural resources here. So it behooves us to "help" fight others wars, in order to "help" them get freedom and democracy, so we can "help" them set up a government, and maybe even make a "suggestion" or two about who should be running the place. Trust me, we aren't over there for free, no strings attached.
 
Ah, but we can't so easily exploit our natural resources here. So it behooves us to "help" fight others wars, in order to "help" them get freedom and democracy, so we can "help" them set up a government, and maybe even make a "suggestion" or two about who should be running the place. Trust me, we aren't over there for free, no strings attached.

What problem would you have with doing strictly business, as we do with some other countries?
 
Then I would suggest that we focus on here, and not overseas. We are wasting money and lives fighting battles for them, when he have our own crap to deal with.

Agreed. We have serious problems here in the US that we sould be dealing with. As bad as 9/11 was let's put it into perspective. We have a near failing infrastructure rated at a "D", crumbling inner cities, out of control debt, a disasterous health care system, rampant crime, drugs and violence... we need to focus on here. Put those marines to use in downtown crime infested cities. See what the Cripps do against the Rangers. Solve our problems here.

Millions without health insurance doesn't get the headlines that four dead in some embassy in some **** backwards country get... sad.
 
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