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Obama: 'We Don't Believe Anybody Is Entitled to Success in This Country' [W:108]

Henrin said:
So basically what you saying that in order to ensure opportunity we must entitle them to the fruits of others labor.
Yeah, that doesn't really work.
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Why not? Why shouldn't we all chip in a little so that education can be available for the citizens of our country?

It seems to me that the educational system is a significant national security matter and a significant economic matter.
Is there some way that the US would be better off with weaker national security and economic footing?
Am I wrong about the impact of technology on warfare or economies?
Am I wrong about the impact of education on the capacity to be technologically savvy and innovative?

What's the bit that I am missing?
How is it not in the vital interests of a democracy in the modern world to have a well-educated populace?
 
Hatuey said:
Should people be denied education based on the fact that they can't pay for it? 19th century thinking which gave us this:

child%20labor.jpg


Sorry. Don't feel like going back in time.
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Who said I'm supporting the 19th century? In the real world it takes money to pay for someones education and no one has the right the fruits of others labor to assist them in their life be it the kid that needs an education, the rich man, the old lady or the poor woman with tons of kids. There really is no right to equal opportunity to be successful and in reality it would call for much more than just an education.
 
Hatuey said:
Good way of avoiding the fact that Mya royally screwed up in her assertion that one is in fact entitled to success. Well, I guess it did create some forum activity.
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My answer to Mya, in part, was: "The only thing I was guaranteed/ entitled to was if I sit on my ass I will become a failure. No one is entitled to success it takes a set of balls, determination, commitment a lot of luck and the right people in your corner. I tell you what, that is why I do so much pro bono work because I was blessed with talent and the grace to live a great live filled with achievement and purpose." http://www.debatepolitics.com/break...d-success-country-w-108-a.html#post1060990809
 
Henrin said:
Who said I'm supporting the 19th century? In the real world it takes money to pay for someones education and no one has the right the fruits of others labor to assist them in their life be it the kid that needs an education, the rich man, the old lady or the poor woman with tons of kids. There really is no right to equal opportunity to be successful and in reality it would call for much more than just an education.
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So you're an anarchist? Against all govt and all taxation?
 
haymarket said:
Apparently your keyboard malfunctioned.
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Apparently you don't know know you are supposed to fill in the blank. What you support has failed you it seems.
 
Henrin said:
Who said I'm supporting the 19th century? In the real world it takes money to pay for someones education and no one has the right the fruits of others labor to assist them in their life be it the kid that needs an education, the old lady or the poor woman with tons of kids. There really is no right to equal opportunity to be successful and in reality it would call for much more than just an education.
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No. You're supportive of their type of thinking. The difference is simple. 150 years ago 80-90% of the country's population did not have access to education for economic reasons as well as racial/cultural reasons to a lesser extent. Today, anywhere from 95% to 100% of the country has access to education. Whether it be thanks to the taxes that they pay through income, sales etc is irrelevant. However, what is relevant is that the "fruits of your labor" aren't the only ones paying for social programs. Everyone pays for them by different means.
 
Hatuey said:
Yes... people aren't entitled to any success. . .

It is really a shame that you have no clue what it is Obama is actually talking about.
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It is really a shame that he doesn't know what he is talking about. It is not unexpected however.

"If you've got a business. You didn't build that. Somebody else made that happen."
Barack Hussein Obama - Socialist, Marxist, president (USA)
 
[logic]

Henrin, do you believe people who pay no income tax pay no taxes atll? If you don't believe that, then you automatically refute the claim that people expect others to pay for the education of their children. Why? Because if they pay taxes, any kind of tax, then surely a percentage of that taxation goes towards funding the same schools you claim they are expecting their children to go to on the dime of others.

[/logic.]
 
Misterveritis said:
It is really a shame that he doesn't know what he is talking about. It is not unexpected however.

"If you've got a business. You didn't build that. Somebody else made that happen."
Barack Hussein Obama - Socialist, Marxist, president (USA)
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You forgot Muslim. Don't ever forget Muslim.
 
Hatuey said:
No. You're supportive of their type of thinking. The difference is simple. 150 years ago 80-90% of the country's population did not have access to education for economic reasons as well as racial/cultural reasons to a lesser extent. Today, anywhere from 95% to 100% of the country has access to education. Whether it be thanks to the taxes that they pay through income, sales etc is irrelevant. However, what is relevant is that the "fruits of your labor" aren't the only ones paying for social programs. Everyone pays for them by different means.
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Don't assume things about me but instead read the words that I write. If I don't put something down in a post then don't think I support it or don't support it. That is unless you have proof of a belief of mine in an earlier post that can be use as your support, thanks. That is a fair point that taxes come from different avenues and to be fair the way it taxed doesn't so much mean what I said. What it means is that people have the right to others money to provide for them whatever they need. Thanks for the correction.
 
Connery said:
"We don’t believe that anybody is entitled to success in this country," said Obama. "But we do believe in opportunity." I was not guaranteed or entitled success or failure. I worked for everything that I ever achieved like most people. What I did was essentially quit school in the 4th grade and studied at the NY public library, museums and when a little older I used to sneak into college classes. I opened up my first taxation and bookkeeping business at age 14 getting my clients in mom and pop stores and the bars in the Bronx. I got my GED and went on to College then was a offered a free ride at Colombia University School of International and Public relations, but , I passed on that to get a my degree from another university in Law, again a free ride. I worked my ass off and retired at 41 years old.

I do not believe that if I were in another country I would have been afforded that opportunity or been considered a candidate for any advanced education.


The only thing I was guaranteed/ entitled to was if I sit on my ass I will become a failure. No one is entitled to success it takes a set of balls, determination, commitment a lot of luck and the right people in your corner. I tell you what, that is why I do so much pro bono work because I was blessed with talent and the grace to live a great live filled with achievement and purpose.
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I agree with your formulation. I do not agree with Obama's formulation. You are entitled to your success. You earned it. He believes you didn't earn it. Someone else made that happen. And, therefore, the government can take the fruits of your success away from you, as you are not entitled to it.
 
Henrin said:
Nope, but thanks for the drama.
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Henrin said:
Who said I'm supporting the 19th century? In the real world it takes money to pay for someones education and no one has the right the fruits of others labor to assist them in their life be it the kid that needs an education, the rich man, the old lady or the poor woman with tons of kids. There really is no right to equal opportunity to be successful and in reality it would call for much more than just an education.
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So it's that you don't think that a nation of people working together can accomplish more than if they don't?

I don't get how you think that "no one has the right the fruits of others labor to assist them in their life". It seems obvious that the govt has the right to tax the electorate. It also seems obvious that that tax can be rightfully spent to "assist" the lives of the electorate especially in matters of national security and national economic policy. The only way my limited imagination can see where you can justify saying the govt has no right to tax for national security purposes etc is if you deny that any govt has the right to tax.
:shrug:

Feel free to explain.
 
Henrin said:
Don't assume things about me but instead read the words that I write. If I don't put something down in a post then don't think I support it or don't support it. That is unless you have proof of a belief of mine in an earlier post that can be use as your support, thanks. That is a fair point that taxes come from different avenues and to be fair the way it taxed doesn't so much mean what I said. What it means is that people have the right to others money to provide for them whatever they need. Thanks for the correction.
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So what you're arguing is that some people aren't paying their fair share in order to fund these programs? ;)
 
Henrin said:
Apparently you don't know know you are supposed to fill in the blank. What you support has failed you it seems.
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I expect people to complete THEIR OWN THOUGHTS in THEIR OWN POSTS with THEIR OWN WORDS.

But okay - I will fill in the blank for you to complete the thought:

the money that is taxed is earned by people fortunate enough to live in the USA and enjoy the fruits and benefits of the greatest nation on the face of the earth.

We make a great team Henrin. ;)
 
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Misterveritis said:
I agree with your formulation. I do not agree with Obama's formulation. You are entitled to your success. You earned it. He believes you didn't earn it. Someone else made that happen. And, therefore, the government can take the fruits of your success away from you, as you are not entitled to it.
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Only a matter of time before this nonsense came on. I'm surprised nobody has called Obama a Marxist Muslim yet.
 
Mya said:
Again... you and I see things in a different light.... therefore.... i prefer not to answer you.
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Relax Mya. You understood the one term Marxist. He does not believe you are entitled to your success because you didn't make it happen. He believes that the government, not you, is entitled to whatever you make of the opportunities you take advantage of.
 
4Horsemen said:
When you're a kid you're taught that you live in the greatest country in the world(which is true btw) and you are ENTITLED to go for it, whatever that may be in life to succeed. This is why we have a Constitution. It protects our RIGHT and ENTITLEMENT to Freedom to succeed.

Now if you can't under that simple logic, may I suggest 3rd grade again?
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No. The Constitution does NOT protect our right and entitlement to freedom to succeed. It protects our right to pursue happiness as we see fit as long as we do so within the framework of established law. Nothing more.

So, you are free to work hard and try your hand at being a dairy farmer, a cattle ranger, the owner of a taxi cab service, an eCommerce mogul selling everything from candied apples to zuccini. But you are not entitled to success. You may pursue it, but you aren't entitled to it.

You achieve success by working hard, studying your craft, taking advantage of your skills and opportunities as they present themselves (or as you create them), by formulating a plan and executing same with sheer determination. Given enough time, the right formula for success, proper implementation and some luck you can be successful in this country. But success is NOT guaranteed, not by the Constitution or any other law of this land and you're certainly not entitled to it. To think otherwise is not only foolish, it places you in the exact same "entitlement mindset" Republican/Conservatives critisize the poor of believing.
 
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X Factor said:
It makes sense for him to say that. If you don't believe anyone is ever successful on their own (and we know Obama believes this) then no one is really entitled to their success - since it's not really theirs.
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THIS is the right way to view Obama's statements about success. Remember, he has to convince his base that his view of stealing wealth from the successful is to make the case that they are not entitled to it as somebody else made that happen.
 
Connery said:
My answer to Mya, in part, was: "The only thing I was guaranteed/ entitled to was if I sit on my ass I will become a failure. No one is entitled to success it takes a set of balls, determination, commitment a lot of luck and the right people in your corner. I tell you what, that is why I do so much pro bono work because I was blessed with talent and the grace to live a great live filled with achievement and purpose." http://www.debatepolitics.com/break...d-success-country-w-108-a.html#post1060990809
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Though he believes people are entitled to healthcare, an education, food, and much much more. That part of his comment was a filthy blatant lie.
 
I'm not sure how my ID appears in Pinkie's quote as the author?
 
Misterveritis said:
Relax Mya. You understood the one term Marxist. He does not believe you are entitled to your success because you didn't make it happen. He believes that the government, not you, is entitled to whatever you make of the opportunities you take advantage of.
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I keep hearing things like this come from the right and it's pretty scary. It's like a blatant and intentional misinterpretation of the words.

I assume the democrats did the same to Bush in 2004 but I wasn't as active in politics as I am now.
 
joko104 said:
He did, but you didn't. Guess what that means?
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He's slacking on his birther rhetoric? Don't use logic again joko. It's really bad for you. Last time you claimed that using Republican rhetoric to support a Libertarian ideal advocated by a Democrat was partisan. Good thing you never came back to defend that serious gap in logic.
 
Hatuey said:
So what you're arguing is that some people aren't paying their fair share in order to fund these programs? ;)
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Not at all, but I can see why you would think that. In reality, I'm against the idea of calling a service that takes money to exist anything more than a service that must be earned. I'm just pointing out that it takes money from other people to provide people with things they can't afford on their own with that series of posts to you and such a right does not exist.
 
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