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Turkey fires artillery at Syria

Mr. Invisible said:
Those who cannot remember the past are condemned to repeat it. -George Santayana
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Afghanistan is much better off than it was. So is Iraq.

Look what happened to Japan after we nuked them. Should we use that model of history with Iran?
 
ecofarm said:
Even war crimes of the same "type" are not all the same. There's a big difference between killing 20 civilians (and who knows what "faction" actually did that) and killing thousands with the country's military. If you think those two things are the same, oh well.
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I don't think those two things are the same. I am just acknowledging that they are war crimes. However, my non-support for the rebs (I also do not support the regime) comes not only from that, but also from the other evidence I have presented in this thread.
 
ecofarm said:
Afghanistan is much better off than it was. So is Iraq.

Look what happened to Japan after we nuked them. Should we use that model of history with Iran?
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maybe ,but then you may not have the right to accuse turkey of violating human rights:roll:

ı understand you are sincere and you believe what you way .but us foreing policy is not as you think sweety

note:japan is dependent on usa militarily politically which lets them be number in high technology ,and it is not democracy swetty
 
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Mr. Invisible said:
I am just acknowledging that they are war crimes.
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That's BS. You use the false equivalency of those things to defend your abandonment of a democratic movement that is being slaughtered by their own military. It is like no amount of human suffering could convince you to become involved, not even when the oppressed are actively fighting and dying in the streets.
 
Mr. Invisible said:
Really? It is? Tell that to the people of Afghanistan who want us the hell out of their country.
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Oh, spare me. You're going to use the Taliban to defend your position? The president of Afghan does not want all US personel out.

And what about Japan? If we nuke Iran history will repeat itself?
 
Mr. Invisible said:
I am not saying that there is no moral difference, I am saying that a war crime is a war crime no matter who commits it. In addition to this, the situation is quite different from the current situation in Syria, with the Syrian rebels being backed by AQ.
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Indeed but clearly the difference would have to be pretty small if you believe neither is preferable, no? . And as I said before i fail to see how someone objectionable getting on the band wagon illegitimises everyone else in the movement.
 
ecofarm said:
That's BS. You use the false equivalency of those things to defend your abandonment of a democratic movement that is being slaughtered by their own military. It is like no amount of human suffering could convince you to become involved, not even when the oppressed are actively fighting and dying in the streets.
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Please, take the time to look at the other evidence I have presented in this thread. That also plays into why I don't support the rebels or the regime. It is not a democratic movement.
 
ecofarm said:
That's BS. You use the false equivalency of those things to defend your abandonment of a democratic movement that is being slaughtered by their own military. It is like no amount of human suffering could convince you to become involved, not even when the oppressed are actively fighting and dying in the streets.
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I could say the same about Bahrain
 
Medusa said:
maybe ,but then you may not have the right to accuse turkey of violating human rights:roll:
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I think everyone has the right to criticize the Armenian genocide.

us foreing policy is not as you think sweety
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Says the genocide denier and Turkish ultra-nationalist. Please, tell me some more about my country, Ms. "I'm an expert because it's my country". I love it:

No one can say crap about Turkey because you live there, but you can spew all the conspiracy theorist ignorant BS about imperialism that you want without living here.
 
Mr. Invisible said:
Really? It is? Tell that to the people of Afghanistan who want us the hell out of their country.

The President wants us to leave early (Afghan President Wants U.S. Troops To Leave Early) and Americans also want out of that quagmire (Poll: 69% of Americans want US out of Afghanistan | GlobalPost)
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In addition, we are pretending to have "peace talks" with the Taliban, for God's sake. They are one of the more brutal regimes over there, and we're offering a hand of peace? We have gotten ourselves so intertwined with the politics of that place, first by supporting rebels against the Russians (bad mistake), and now we are kissing ass to virtual savages.
 
Mr. Invisible said:
Please, take the time to look at the other evidence I have presented in this thread. That also plays into why I don't support the rebels or the regime. It is not a democratic movement.
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Just because some of the rebels are bad guys does not mean we abandon our brothers and sisters to slaughter in the streets.
 
ecofarm said:
Oh, spare me. You're going to use the Taliban to defend your position? The president of Afghan does not want all US personel out.

And what about Japan? If we nuke Iran history will repeat itself?
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I am not using the Taliban to defend my position.

And about Japan, the Japanese want us out of Okinawa (Japanese Delegation Wants U.S. Out of Okinawa | MyFDL) and the Okinawans themselves have wanted us out for quite some time (Japanese Want The US Military Out Of Japan | NEWS JUNKIE POST)


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ecofarm said:
Just because some of the rebels are bad guys does not mean we abandon our brothers and sisters to slaughter in the streets.
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Really? Explain how they are "our brothers and sisters?" I have no relatives that are Syrian- at least that I know of.


Red_Dave said:
Indeed but clearly the difference would have to be pretty small if you believe neither is preferable, no? . And as I said before i fail to see how someone objectionable getting on the band wagon illegimises everyone else in the movement.
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Well, no I wouldn't say that the differences are pretty small. Once again, please look at the other evidence I have presented in this thread. It plays into why I support neither side.
 
Medusa said:
note:japan is dependent on usa militarily politically which lets them be number in high technology ,and it is not democracy swetty
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Oh, please. Europe is also dependent on the US militarily, but Japan out-competed them.

Democracies develop, dictatorships stagnate.
 
ecofarm said:
I think everyone has the right to criticize the Armenian genocide.



Says the genocide denier and Turkish ultra-nationalist. Please, tell me some more about my country, Ms. "I'm an expert because it's my country". I love it:

No one can say crap about Turkey because you live there, but you can spew all the conspiracy theorist ignorant BS about imperialism that you want without living here.
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no , i can accuse you of causing japanese genocide too.but ı dont..and you were accusing turkey of violating the kurds's rights too ,we never used any nuke on them.

of course ı live here and am smart enough to realize what is happening aroun my country.also usa is here too.tahts why ı know much more about its foreign policy than many of you..

if you are3 world power ,you cant close your eyes to these comments
similarly i cant know your civil war as much as you know ..



i never reject some tragedies which had been experienced during that eventand feel so sorry for those people.but if you can defend nukes ,you have no right to criticize other countries..........

you are brainy and please dont justify a fault while you defend other faults.
 
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Medusa said:
no , i can accuse you of causing japanese genocide too.but ı dont..and you were accusing turkey of violating the kurds's rights too ,we never used any nuke on them.

of course ı live here and am smart enough to realize what is happening aroun my country.also usa is here too.tahts why ı know much more about its foreign policy than many of you..

similarly i cant know your civil war as much as you know ..



i never reject some tragedies which had been experienced during that eventand feel so sorry for those people.but if you can defend nukes ,you have no right to criticize other countries..........
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Oh, please. If anyone says anything about Turkey, you get all "but I live here so I know better!" And when it comes to the US, you're the expert there too? You spew BS about "imperialism" (I don't think you even know what that word means) and "pushing people into war", like you know it all.

Bottom line? You probably know about as much about Turkish geopolitics as you do American.
 
ecofarm said:
Oh, please. If anyone says anything about Turkey, you get all "but I live here so I know better!" And when it comes to the US, you're the expert there too? You spew BS about "imperialism" (I don't think you even know what that word means) and "pushing people into war", like you know it all.

Bottom line? You probably know about as much about Turkish as you do American geopolitics.
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yes ı am b rainwashed idiot ,usa doesnt put its nose into everything in this region ,i am fabricating all of these..........

not "when it comes to usa ," but when it comes to middle east"

we are not talking about your elections or civl war..
 
Medusa said:
of course ..tehy werent as interested in those people as they were interested in syria................


Serbia’s Atrocity, Holland’s Shame « Iconic Photos


if teh europeans really wanted to end this humanity tragedy,they would do ,holland is just a sample
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HAHAHA Ironic, this school year I reside in Holland.

I guess I will never really know about that land until I make a personal contact with someone from there. Maybe next year I should hunt for a Bosnian girlfriend. I became an expert on Hungary thanks to an earlier Hungarian girlfriend. I will become an expert in Bosnia too. For now what I can say is that if I was a Bosnian, I would be very angry at Europe.

I think the most important word in your article was "enclave". (I mean apart from the horrors.) Does it make sense that the enabler to such attrocities was the mixture of "enclave" and "nationality"? I begin to think that your research here is one extra material that I would be able to use in my usual retoric against the ideology of nation state building. Also, I guess a federated Europe that successfully scrambles the national identities of its constituents would not have behaved in such an enabling way.

What if we speculate? Now that Europe has so discredited itself with Holland's behavior, which country is best suited to support the survival of Bosnians? I speculate that another nation state would be an unoptimal choice, so what if we search for non-nation states such as Russia, Turkey, various islamic alliances? Or would squeezed nations do for some good in this matter, such as Hungary, Albania, Bulgaria, Western Ukraine, ... ? What's your take?
 
Mr. Invisible said:
Really? Explain how they are "our brothers and sisters?" I have no relatives that are Syrian- at least that I know of.
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All men and women who desire freedom and democracy are my brothers and sisters. I'm not a nationalist, I'm a human rights globalist.
 
lizzie said:
No. I want them to solve their own internal problems. Democracy is a good thing, but it's not something that we can hand them.
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Sorry, I must answer this with a very hasty counter-point, our Founding Fathers went to a great deal to limit democrary with an Electoral College. Democrarcy is not, but a Republic is what we build. In my humble opinion, democracy is an absolutely horrible thing, because of the unchecked power it gives automatically to a majority. See what it did to France. I don't want cultures and civilization to die.
 
Medusa said:
yes ı am b rainwashed idiot ,usa doesnt put its nose into everything in this region ,i am fabricating all of these..........

not "when it comes to usa ," but when it comes to middle east"

we are not talking about your elections or civl war..
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I'll make you a deal. Stop with the "imperialism" and "evil empire" BS and I'll stop with the Armenian Genocide. But as long as you crap all over my country, don't expect any kid gloves regarding yours.
 
Mr. Invisible said:
Well, no I wouldn't say that the differences are pretty small. Once again, please look at the other evidence I have presented in this thread. It plays into why I support neither side.
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Did you mean n't ? presumably if the differences were pretty big then one would be preferable to the other? As i said before i don't find any example particularly convincing, what 'Anti-Assad Gunmen' get up to is not something the FSA as a whole can be held accountable for. And again I would ask where you suggest the rebels should keep POWs? given that they are under no obligation to take prisoners in the first place its likely these people were killed in desperation. Che Guvera shot POWs and I've yet to see you call him a war criminal.
 
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