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Under Obama, Poor, Middle Class Incomes Fall Sharply

TurtleDude said:
I reject that as someone who has studied Constitutional law. Liberal justices gave us the precedent of the New Deal. Game Set and Match
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As somebody who has studied Constitutional Law myself, I assure you that liberal justices are friendlier to issues of cloning and stem cell research than conservative ones. I could certainly provided citations to cases on stem cell research to prove this, but I suspect you already know it to be true and are simply opting to use a cheap debate tactic.

Who gives a **** about the New Deal? Life and death issues trump money. Concerns about money are incredibly petty compared to medical issues.
 
TurtleDude said:
some good=yes but the most harm as well
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Eh, that'll just come down to ideological differences I guess.

And we haven't discussed the the biggest decision of the "liberal" Warren Court, that being Brown v. Board.
 
zstep18 said:
Even via the due process clause of the Fourteenth Amendment?
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I regret I am not familiar with the caselaw or reasoning supporting the public defender requirement, but I would speculate that it is probably not based on original intent.
 
Guy Incognito said:
I regret I am not familiar with the caselaw or reasoning supporting the public defender requirement, but I would speculate that it is probably not based on original intent.
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That's fine. By the way, I am not claiming to be an expert in constitutional law, by any means.

I'm just a recent college graduate.
 
zstep18 said:
Eh, that'll just come down to ideological differences I guess.

And we haven't discussed the the biggest decision of the "liberal" Warren Court, that being Brown v. Board.
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If your ideology favors human lives over money, there is no question that liberal judges are preferable to conservative ones.

If only there were libertarian judges... we'd have the best of both worlds. As it is, the system is such that we have to choose between people and pennies. It's unfortunate, but the choice is obvious.
 
zstep18 said:
That's fine. By the way, I am not claiming to be an expert in constitutional law, by any means.

I'm just a recent college graduate.
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You should have just said you're a lawyer.
 
Guy Incognito said:
If your ideology favors human lives over money, there is no question that liberal judges are preferable to conservative ones.

If only there were libertarian judges... we'd have the best of both worlds. As it is, the system is such that we have to choose between people and pennies. It's unfortunate, but the choice is obvious.
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I "want" to be more libertarian. But, I'm not libertarian.

If that makes sense.
 
Guy Incognito said:
As somebody who has studied Constitutional Law myself, I assure you that liberal justices are friendlier to issues of cloning and stem cell research than conservative ones. I could certainly provided citations to cases on stem cell research to prove this, but I suspect you already know it to be true and are simply opting to use a cheap debate tactic.

Who gives a **** about the New Deal? Life and death issues trump money. Concerns about money are incredibly petty compared to medical issues.
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cloning and stem cell research are hardly center stage in the issue of too much government.
 
zstep18 said:
That's fine. By the way, I am not claiming to be an expert in constitutional law, by any means.

I'm just a recent college graduate.
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I am an expert on constitutional law I have handled over 200 federal civil rights cases. One doesn't have to be a law graduate to have a sound understanding of constitutional legal premises. However, many people pretend to be experts on this subject and they are not
 
TurtleDude said:
I am an expert on constitutional law I have handled over 200 federal civil rights cases. One doesn't have to be a law graduate to have a sound understanding of constitutional legal premises. However, many people pretend to be experts on this subject and they are not
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You're right. And nowhere did I claim to be an expert in constitutional law.

However, I have a strong interest in constitutional law and I enjoy reading about the subject.
 
zstep18 said:
You're right. And nowhere did I claim to be an expert in constitutional law.

However, I have a strong interest in constitutional law and I enjoy reading about the subject.
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I commend you then. we'd have a far better informed electorate and less crappy politicians if everyone had the same attitude you do
 
TurtleDude said:
I am an expert on constitutional law I have handled over 200 federal civil rights cases. One doesn't have to be a law graduate to have a sound understanding of constitutional legal premises. However, many people pretend to be experts on this subject and they are not
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You can be an expert manipulator of the truth, but it really is meaningless if your are arguing for the wrong cause. What is important is people, not money.
 
TurtleDude said:
I commend you then. we'd have a far better informed electorate and less crappy politicians if everyone had the same attitude you do
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Thank you for the compliment.

I just graduated college and I actually do want to go on to law school.
 
Guy Incognito said:
You can be an expert manipulator of the truth, but it really is meaningless if your are arguing for the wrong cause. What is important is people, not money.
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the socialist sewage of people not profits crap again? Populist pablum appealing to failure? the fact is when you take money from those who earned it is nothing more than stealing TIME from them and ultimately all we really have is TIME
 
zstep18 said:
Thank you for the compliment.

I just graduated college and I actually do want to go on to law school.
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well I know this is a bit OFF TOPIC but my advice to you is unless you can get into a top 25 law school or you plan on doing something OTHER than practice law. I see bad things on the horizon for young lawyers. Too many graduates, not enough jobs. But a law degree is valuable for other things though

however if you can get into your state's best public school (Like OSU in Ohio, U of VA U of NC, or UC Berkeley) or a place like Columbia, Cornell, NYU or Duke then by all means go. You will get a decent job coming out of them
 
TurtleDude said:
well I know this is a bit OFF TOPIC but my advice to you is unless you can get into a top 25 law school or you plan on doing something OTHER than practice law. I see bad things on the horizon for young lawyers. Too many graduates, not enough jobs. But a law degree is valuable for other things though

however if you can get into your state's best public school (Like OSU in Ohio, U of VA U of NC, or UC Berkeley) or a place like Columbia, Cornell, NYU or Duke then by all means go. You will get a decent job coming out of them
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Well, I haven't taken the LSAT yet. And I'm currently trying to find a job and eventually go to law school (maybe in 2 years?).

I know there's a concern for people who say "I eventually want to go to law school" to end up never actually going. But, I know that that is really what my end goal is.
 
zstep18 said:
Well, I haven't taken the LSAT yet. And I'm currently trying to find a job and eventually go to law school (maybe in 2 years?).

I know there's a concern for people who say "I eventually want to go to law school" to end up never actually going. But, I know that that is really what my end goal is.
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Feel free to PM me anytime-I will do my best to give you honest answers from a guy who passed the bar in 1984 and had the good fortune to go to an Ivy League Law School
 
TurtleDude said:
the socialist sewage of people not profits crap again? Populist pablum appealing to failure? the fact is when you take money from those who earned it is nothing more than stealing TIME from them and ultimately all we really have is TIME
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How philosophical of you. But it's a weak argument when you consider that what you are ultimately advocating is that we deny advancements in stem cell research and cloning, which presents incalculably important potential for advancements in human health, just so that you can see some judge appointed who will save you a few bucks. That's monstrous.
 
Guy Incognito said:
How philosophical of you. But it's a weak argument when you consider that what you are ultimately advocating is that we deny advancements in stem cell research and cloning, which presents incalculably important potential for advancements in human health, just so that you can see some judge appointed who will save you a few bucks. That's monstrous.
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do you have MS or ALS? this sort of argument usually comes from those wishing that the federal government spend all sorts of money on speculative treatments for those dreaded disease, I am all in favor of private industry has the freedom to use all such tools to get cures. HOwever your idiotic claim about why I favor less STATIST judges is pathetic.

its amazing how the far left can always justify taking MORE MONEY From other people for their concept of the greater good
 
TurtleDude said:
do you have MS or ALS? this sort of argument usually comes from those wishing that the federal government spend all sorts of money on speculative treatments for those dreaded disease, I am all in favor of private industry has the freedom to use all such tools to get cures. HOwever your idiotic claim about why I favor less STATIST judges is pathetic.

its amazing how the far left can always justify taking MORE MONEY From other people for their concept of the greater good
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Please TD, I really don't welcome personal questions.

As for wanting government funding for medical research, far from it. I am in favor of cutting all government funding to scientific research. All I want is to get government out of the way, so that the burgeoning field of cloning is not crushed in its infancy. If it's not America that pioneers cloning, it will eventually just be some other country making the breakthroughs, getting the patents, and generally reaping the benefits.

If your cherished conservative justices hold back the progress of medical science by even a day it is unforgivable. But to prohibit cloning altogether? To postpone this research possibly by a generation? Monstrous.

By the way, I notice you've dropped your earlier BS line that conservative justices wouldn't oppose cloning. I happily accept your implied concession on this point.
 
Wiseone said:
Yes we have not recovered from the recession, and yes the recession started right before Obama took office so there's all kinds of things you can say happened during his Presidency and pretend they are his fault, and finally yes its still as much bullcrap as its always been.

In other words...

ZZZZZZZZZZzzzzzzzzzzzzzz
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A recession was happening right when Bush took office too, so what? I'll tell you what hits people right in the wallet.

rg.jpg
 
Guy Incognito said:
Please TD, I really don't welcome personal questions.

As for wanting government funding for medical research, far from it. I am in favor of cutting all government funding to scientific research. All I want is to get government out of the way, so that the burgeoning field of cloning is not crushed in its infancy. If it's not America that pioneers cloning, it will eventually just be some other country making the breakthroughs, getting the patents, and generally reaping the benefits.

If your cherished conservative justices hold back the progress of medical science by even a day it is unforgivable. But to prohibit cloning altogether? To postpone this research possibly by a generation? Monstrous.

By the way, I notice you've dropped your earlier BS line that conservative justices wouldn't oppose cloning. I happily accept your implied concession on this point.
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Guy Incognito said:
How philosophical of you. But it's a weak argument when you consider that what you are ultimately advocating is that we deny advancements in stem cell research and cloning, which presents incalculably important potential for advancements in human health, just so that you can see some judge appointed who will save you a few bucks. That's monstrous.
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Statements appear contradictory. TDs argument appears to be he doesnt want government paying for it. Your argument appears you dont want government paying for it...except when you do?
 
OpportunityCost said:
Statements appear contradictory. TDs argument appears to be he doesnt want government paying for it. Your argument appears you dont want government paying for it...except when you do?
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No contradiction. I don't want government BANNING it. TD is perfectly ok with banning therapeutic or reproductive cloning outright to save himself a few bucks on taxes. I am not; this does not mean I support government funding of research, we need to end all of that ****. Keep the government out of science altogether, both regulation and funding.
 
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