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Iran is heating up . . . [W:259]

Higgins86 said:
given your views on the Iraq war and given the fact I served in the Iraq war there is no point explaining as we will never agree, plus I have actually been to iraq, met the people and listened to them. But reading articles and Blogs come pretty close...
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You served in the Iraq War?

Youre the right person to speak to then!

PERFECT!

What were you told were the reasons the USA had to invade Iraq?
 
Klown said:
your 25,000 figure is incorrect

there are about 1.5 million Iranian citizens that identify themselves as Jews in Iran today
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OK klown, my source is already up. Wikipedia, themselves further footnoted.
BTW this is the latest and it's is NOW a THIRD of the 25k it was estimated at only years previous.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Persian_Jews#Iran said:

However, a Census in August 2012 revealed that there were Only 8,756 Jews still living in Iran. [18]
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What's Your source Klown?
"1.5 Million?"
LOL

What a Disgrace. klown Lying even After the fact.
 
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Also, one thing to keep in mind is that a lot of those Iraqi deaths were victims of their own country's extremists, blowing up markets and things like that. Those deaths are included in civilian deaths due to the war.
 
Wiggen said:
Because neither the Soviet Union or China were governed by radical Islamists who see martyrdom as a worthy endeavor. These are religious zealots who have a completely different outlook on the world.

How do you figure that the Soviet Union or China were 'crazy, suicidal regimes'? They may have been despotic and oppressive, but I see no indications that either is/was suicidal or crazy. In fact, they were exceptionally practical.
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Both Stalin and Mao had no problem killing and torturing their own people. Also, Mao Tse-tung was quoted, saying "deaths would be beneficial to the Chinese, for without them, there would be be no renewal" and "...destruction [of people] has advantages. One can make fertilizer. You say you can't, but actually you can, but you must be spiritually prepared."

That sounds pretty damn crazy to me.
 
Goshin said:
Why? Don't you want the Iranian people to be free of the mullahs?

BTW, don't let the saber-rattling scare you. Before we took Iraq down, people were saying "OMG! WW3!!!" and "Nukyuler Epoxyclips!" and "Oh they'll shoot missles at Israel and the whole Middle East will go up in FLAMES!!! Russia and China will get involved!! EEK!!" and so on....

Didn't happen.
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Hyperbole aside, I'd hardly point to Iraq as an example of pessimistic predictions being discredited. I'm less worried about a war with Iran turning into a "nukyuler epoxyclips" with Russia and China getting involved, than I am about it just turning into yet another counterproductive cluster**** and prolonged occupation in the region. Just like Iraq was.
 
Klown said:
A mosquito that will cut your oil supply off

Are you aware that the big US Energy and oil corporations such as EXXON are lobbying the US congress NOT to trigger another conflict in the region?

And we all know WHO is in control of the US congress dont we ladies and gentlemen

The IRaq war has cost the US thousands of soldiers and injured about 100,000 military personell, and resulted in the slaughter of over 1.4 million Iraqi civilians - about half of which were children and the elderly.

What did Iraq do to the USA again?

Care to explain?
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Until we send that skeeter's entire fleet to the bottom. Our submarine fleet, alone, would make short work of the Iranian navy.
 
SmokeAndMirrors said:
It's not really our job to tell them when to be free, and history has shown over and over again that freedom can only come from an internal desire within the society itself. Breaking down whatever semblance of government they have in the mean time won't fix it. It just provides room for a new tyrannical regime to grow.

It is not the US' responsibility to police the world, nor are we, quite frankly, in any position to do so.
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When people are being slaughtered in the streets for speaking out against their government, I'd say the time is now. I disagree with your position on the same grounds that I disagree with 'some women can be beaten because they like it that way' (S&M being a different thing).
 
mbig said:
OK klown, my source is already up. Wikipedia, themselves further footnoted.
BTW this is the lastest and it's is NOW a THIRD of the 25k it was estimated at only years previous.


What's Your source Klown?
"1.5 Million?"
LOL

What a Disgrace. klown Lying even After the fact.
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Wikipedia hey? lol

An online source run by who exactly?


You seem to be confusing the Orthodox Jewish population in Iran which is modest in number

THere are 1.47 million Iranians who identify themselves as Jews in Iran today

check some reliable sources rather than wikipedia articles which you cannot interpret properly yourself
 
Klown said:
You served in the Iraq War?

Youre the right person to speak to then!

PERFECT!

What were you told were the reasons the USA had to invade Iraq?
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well I served in the British army so not sure what the American army was saying but my Army was saying right " lets go get this bastard"
 
Klown said:
Wikipedia hey? lol

An online source run by who exactly?


You seem to be confusing the Orthodox Jewish population in Iran which is modest in number

THere are 1.47 million Iranians who identify themselves as Jews in Iran today

check some reliable sources rather than wikipedia articles which you cannot interpret properly yourself
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You made the claim so you should provide links to substantiate it. That is just proper etiquette.
 
ecofarm said:
When people are being slaughtered in the streets for speaking out against their government, I'd say the time is now. I disagree with your position on the same grounds that I disagree with 'some women can be beaten because they like it that way' (S&M being a different thing).
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That's happening in dozens of countries all over the world. Should we just invade them all?

We are not the world police, and even if we were, overthrowing their government is not a good way to arrive at a stable society. Like I said, all you have to do to verify that statement is look at history.

The US can't right all wrongs going on in the world. Hell, we're having a hard time just maintaining a sub-par status quo in our own country.

Say what you like about the UN, but that's part of what they're there for, and while they may not be extremely effective, at least they don't make things worse like outside overthrow tends to do.
 
SmokeAndMirrors said:
Say what you like about the UN, but that's part of what they're there for, and while they may not be extremely effective, at least they don't make things worse like outside overthrow tends to do.
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When Iraq has a dictator commit genocide twice, sell baby food causing 400k children to starve, invade neighbors multiple times and manage violation of 17 Chapter 7 UNSCRs, then we can worry about the status quo. It's time to end the tyranny in Iran and thus Syrian, Lebanon and Palestine. No more North Koreas, enough is enough.
 
Regarding Ahmadinejad... he insists his country's nuclear program is only for electricity generation and medical research but he is not doing anything to put anyones fears to rest. For the love of God Ahmadinejad, shut your mouth for once and just open up all your facilities to inspectors from the U.N. nuclear agency to prove the intent of your enrichment of uranium. There is still time to resolve the dispute through diplomatic channels.
 
ecofarm said:
When Iraq has a dictator commit genocide twice, sell baby food causing 400k children to starve, invade neighbors multiple times and manage violation of 17 Chapter 7 UNSCRs, then we can worry about the status quo. It's time to end the tyranny in Iran and thus Syrian, Lebanon and Palestine. No more North Koreas, enough is enough.
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It would be, if there were any realistic probability of that happening, but there isn't.

1. Our military is overstretched as it is. What is the point of launching campaign if it is doomed to failure?

2. As history shows, another terrible regime will just pop up to replace it. Causing chaos in an unprepared society just creates more chaos.

I'd love to wave my magic wand and make the bad guys go away, but here in reality, it doesn't work like that.
 
Serenity is right. If they have nothing to hide, then they should just be open and allow real inspections. Also, Iran signed a nuclear treaty and now they are not playing nice.
 
Serenity said:
Regarding Ahmadinejad... he insists his country's nuclear program is only for electricity generation and medical research but he is not doing anything to put anyones fears to rest. For the love of God Ahmadinejad, shut your mouth for once and just open up all your facilities to inspectors from the U.N. nuclear agency to prove the intent of your enrichment of uranium. There is still time to resolve the dispute through diplomatic channels.
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Stop enriching uranium to 20%, stop having us find particles at 25-30%, and go back to 2-4% reactor grade enrichment. Agree to having fuel reprocessed abroad on a temporary basis. Have inspections and observed transfer of unneeded U-235 stockpiles to international supervision.
 
Klown said:
your 25,000 figure is incorrect

there are about 1.5 million Iranian citizens that identify themselves as Jews in Iran today
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OK klown, my source is already up. Wikipedia, themselves further footnoted.
BTW this is the latest and it's is NOW a THIRD of the 25k it was estimated at only years previous.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Persian_Jews#Iran said:

However, a Census in August 2012 revealed that there were Only 8,756 Jews still living in Iran. [18]
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What's Your source Klown?
"1.5 Million?"
LOL

What a Disgrace. klown Lying even After the fact.
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -- - - - - -- - -- -- - - - -- -- -- -- - -
Now..
Klown said:
Wikipedia hey? lol
An online source run by who exactly?

You seem to be confusing the Orthodox Jewish population in Iran which is modest in number

THere are 1.47 million Iranians who identify themselves as Jews in Iran today
check some reliable sources rather than wikipedia articles which you cannot interpret properly yourself
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What a RAGING LIE you repeat.
Now Klown even made it more Specific "1.47 million."
Going for the Goebbelsian "Big Lie".

LINK? Or pulled from Your rear end klown?
What Disgraceful Lies klown tells..
When Caught he tells Bigger Lies.

Wikpedia [18] cites AFP sourcing the Iranian Presdent's website amar.org.IR with the Iranian 2011 Census.

AFP: Iran young, urbanised and educated: census
Iran young, urbanised and educated: Census
AFP – Jul 29, 2012

TEHRAN — Iran is a very urbanised society with a largely educated, young Muslim population that ranks as the Middle East's second-biggest, its Latest Census figures, published on Sunday, show.

The snapshot, issued on the website of the presidency's planning and strategic supervision department (www.amar.org.ir), also corrected some misconceptions about the country, notably by reporting fewer than expected Jews and Internet users.

The census, whose data was collected in 2011 and presented in resume last week by the department's officials, gave Iran's total population as 75.2 million, 99.4% of whom are Muslim.
That was larger than any other country in the region except for Egypt (81 million, according to the World Bank).[........]

There are 8,756 Jews in the country, according to the census. That was fewer than the 20,000 figure previously estimated.
[......]
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Link for your now Even Bigger LIE "1.47 million"?

What Outrageous LIES Klown not only tells, but when Caught, Repeats.
PATHOLOGICAL LYING.
 
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The right-wing wants a war before the election. This includes the right-wing of Israel.
 
Serenity said:
Regarding Ahmadinejad... he insists his country's nuclear program is only for electricity generation and medical research but he is not doing anything to put anyones fears to rest.
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Missile cooperation with North Korea, supporting terrorists in Iraq, Syria, Lebanon, Palestine and elsewhere... without the public pronouncements of 'death to America/Israel', it's just not reasonable for the regime to get nukes. Leaving aside the regime using/selling/losing nukage, another blacked-out hellhole country is not cool.
 
Sherman123 said:
I don't care if Iran feels threatened. I want them to feel threatened, because I am in fact threatening them. The issue is that an Iranian nuclear weapon creates a level of strategic invulnerability that will in turn allow it to flex its muscles as it seeks regional hegemony taking aggressive steps that it has hitherto been unwilling to take. An Iranian nuclear weapon is inimical to US interests, to the pursuit of liberal hegemony, and of the Iranian people.
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A nuclear weapon wouldn't be good for US interests, but it also probably would do a great deal to harm them. It also wouldn't necessarily make Iran a regional hegemon. Iran would have to do a lot more than acquire nukes to get that.

And my post wasn't premised on the notion that you should "care" about Iran in any sympathetic way. It was a retort to the implications that Iran only has irrational reasons for wanting nukes. That's a lie that people have unfortunately bought from the government and mainstream media.
 
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ChrisL said:
I'm sorry, I just don't believe that Iran is the most threatened country in that region, or even close. That would definitely be Israel. Israel is the country plagued by suicide bombers and rogue bombs. Israel is the country who is disliked by all surrounding countries, so I think that you are misinformed.
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I never said that Iran is the "most threatened" country in the region. I said that it is a lie to say that Israel is the only "truly" threatened country in the region. That is blatantly false. When Israel and the United States make constant threats, when some of your neighbors have been invaded by the United States and when many of your other neighbors are US allies, your security is "truly" threatened. Anybody who would deny that is uninformed and it's frankly quite frustrating, as someone who knows a lot about this issue, to see such willful refusal to acknowledge that.
 
The West survived the cold war for the very reason it started, no country will launch nukes as they know it will be their very destruction. Even if Iran were to acquire a short range nuke they wont fire, why would they? They want a nuke for the same reason most countries want a nuke so they can be taken seriously and have more chips on the table.
 
ThePlayDrive said:
A nuclear weapon wouldn't be good for US interests, but it also probably would do a great deal to harm them. It also wouldn't necessarily make Iran a regional hegemon. Iran would have to do a lot more than acquire nukes to get that.

And my post was premised on the notion that you should "care" about Iran in any sympathetic way. It was a retort to the implications that Iran only has irrational reasons for wanting nukes. That's a lie that people have unfortunately bought from the government and mainstream media.
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Certainly Iran has 'rational' reasons for seeking a nuclear weapon, that doesn't mean they should have them. I think an absolutely massive facet of this many overlook is the way in which nuclear weapons would shift the strategic calculus in the region, particularly from Iran's perspective. My point, and the point that many have made, is that a nuclear Iran obviates Iranian fears of regime change and significantly reduces their concern over a conventional strike on their territory.

As a result of this new-found security Iran would be able to more aggressively pursue its regional objectives, which revolve around regional hegemony. It's ability to project proxy forces would aggressively increase on critical fronts including Iraq, Afghanistan, Syria, Yemen, Lebanon, and the Palestinian territories. Furthermore its ability to use its nuclear capability as a buffer would significantly increase their propensity for launching limited conventional attacks at Gulf targets, or along its periphery in reaction to geopolitical tensions. The underground battle for Iraq being waged by Iranian and Gulf (primarily Saudi) agents, donors, and proxies could become overt. So many things could happen, and we can pretty clearly see many of the ones that would happen, it would be a terrible thing to allow to occur.
 
ThePlayDrive said:
I never said that Iran is the "most threatened" country in the region. I said that it is a lie to say that Israel is the only "truly" threatened country in the region. That is blatantly false. When Israel and the United States make constant threats, when some of your neighbors have been invaded by the United States and when many of your other neighbors are US allies, your security is "truly" threatened. Anybody who would deny that is uninformed and it's frankly quite frustrating, as someone who knows a lot about this issue, to see such willful refusal to acknowledge that.
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Iran is the country that does all the ridiculous threatening posturing. It is a hostile country, oppressive to it's people. I believe a lot of terrorists come from Iran too. And their leaders are not playing with a full deck obviously.
 
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