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Coal Company Plans to Close Several Mines

Grim17

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It begins... The lay offs are coming thanks to Obama's new EPA regs, which is just what our economy needed.

Four more years... I don't think so.


Coal Company Plans to Close Several Mines
By JESS BIDGOOD
Published: September 18, 2012

Alpha Natural Resources, one of the nation’s largest coal producers, announced on Tuesday that it planned to idle eight mines in Pennsylvania, Virginia and West Virginia, reducing its annual production by 16 million tons. The move will include laying off 1,200 of 13,000 employees. The company said that it was trying to meet the “evolving demands of a changing global coal market” and that it would continue selling coal in the United States while focusing new efforts on overseas markets.
http://www.nytimes.com/2012/09/19/u...close-several-mines.html?_r=2&ref=todayspaper
 
I read a follow up article after this story broke that said they do not expect these layoffs to alter the election any because of the limited scope of the layoffs spread over multiple states in areas where Romney was already expected to win.
 
It begins... The lay offs are coming thanks to Obama's new EPA regs, which is just what our economy needed.

Four more years... I don't think so.



http://www.nytimes.com/2012/09/19/u...close-several-mines.html?_r=2&ref=todayspaper
Except the reason the coal industry is losing is not because of EPA regulations, but rather over the last few years natural gas has become more popular. Not only is natural gas cleaner, but it is also now cheaper.

Instead of blaming the federal government maybe you ought to be celebrating capitalism and creative destruction.
 
Except the reason the coal industry is losing is not because of EPA regulations, but rather over the last few years natural gas has become more popular. Not only is natural gas cleaner, but it is also now cheaper.

Instead of blaming the federal government maybe you ought to be celebrating capitalism and creative destruction.

That is exactly who is shutting down the coal industry. Obama's government.
 
Except the reason the coal industry is losing is not because of EPA regulations, but rather over the last few years natural gas has become more popular. Not only is natural gas cleaner, but it is also now cheaper.

Instead of blaming the federal government maybe you ought to be celebrating capitalism and creative destruction.

From the Wall Street Journal:

The coal industry has been hit by competition from cheap natural gas, but Alpha made clear in its announcement that an equal problem is a Washington “regulatory environment that’s aggressively aimed at constraining the use of coal.” That’s a direct reference to the deluge of Obama Environmental Protection Agency regulations designed to force the closure of coal-fired power plants.​


Like I said...
 
From the Wall Street Journal:

The coal industry has been hit by competition from cheap natural gas, but Alpha made clear in its announcement that an equal problem is a Washington “regulatory environment that’s aggressively aimed at constraining the use of coal.” That’s a direct reference to the deluge of Obama Environmental Protection Agency regulations designed to force the closure of coal-fired power plants.​






Like I said...

Yet they are expanding their operations in coal not used to generate power. Sounds like a business reconfiguration to meet a changing market. You know, the kind of layoffs conservatives always defend when they can't attempt to blame Obama for them. Maybe we should go back to steam locomotives just to make sure there is still a demand for coal. Meanwhile, it's the cost and cleanliness of natural gas that is really eliminating the market.

Cheap natural gas hurting coal market | HamptonRoads.com | PilotOnline.com
 
C02 emissions are down 20% thanks to increasing use of natural gas.

Coal is still a huge business. It still employs about 174,000 people. But natural gas is on the rise.
 
C02 emissions are down 20% thanks to increasing use of natural gas.

Coal is still a huge business. It still employs about 174,000 people. But natural gas is on the rise.

It could be even more on the rise, if Obama hadn't shut down drilling in the Gulf of Mexico.
 
It could be even more on the rise, if Obama hadn't shut down drilling in the Gulf of Mexico.


A clear example of Obama pandering to the people on the gulf coast.
 
I read a follow up article after this story broke that said they do not expect these layoffs to alter the election any because of the limited scope of the layoffs spread over multiple states in areas where Romney was already expected to win.

So in other words as long as they aren't voting for Obama who gives a &^*( if they are employed right?
 
So in other words as long as they aren't voting for Obama who gives a &^*( if they are employed right?

Just wanted to point out that it isn't expected to have any significant political implications per the article I read. I am all for coal miners. The ridiculous mine conditions warrant them twice as much as the already good wage they make in my book.
 
Yet they are expanding their operations in coal not used to generate power. Sounds like a business reconfiguration to meet a changing market. You know, the kind of layoffs conservatives always defend when they can't attempt to blame Obama for them. Maybe we should go back to steam locomotives just to make sure there is still a demand for coal. Meanwhile, it's the cost and cleanliness of natural gas that is really eliminating the market.

Cheap natural gas hurting coal market | HamptonRoads.com | PilotOnline.com

Reallocation of resources to meet market incentives increases production and we as a nation are left better off for it. Reallocation of resources to meet political or regulatory incentives decreases production and we as a nation are left the worse off for it.

The President has made it quite clear that he intends to choke off and shut down the coal industry, which he sees' as a worthy loss in the regulatory goal of fighting off ManBearPig. :) Then he goes off and tries to push us into the electric cars that run off coal.

:) hope that helped.
 
“President Obama is responsible entirely for the closure of that mine and the loss of those jobs,” Murray Energy Corporation’s founder and CEO told CNN in August.

...“The many regulations that he and his radical appointees and the U.S. EPA have put on the use of coal . . . have closed 175 power plants,” Murray added.

In the 2008 campaign, Obama told the San Francisco Chronicle that the “notion of no coal . . . is an illusion,” but he added that he favored a cap-and-trade system. “So if somebody wants to build a coal-powered plant, they can,” Obama continued. “It’s just that it will bankrupt them because they’re going to be charged a huge sum for all that greenhouse gas that’s being emitted.” In 2007, Joe Biden told Grist.org, “I don’t think there’s much of a role for clean coal in energy independence” in the United States — though he added that he favored cleaning up China’s coal plants....

“The Obama administration has done everything it possibly can to destroy the American coal industry,” says Mike Carey, chairman of the Ohio Coal Association... Under Obama’s leadership, we have gone from producing 1.2 billion tons to somewhere in the neighborhood of 800 million tons. It’s disingenuous at best for Obama to say that he supports the coal industry when we have lost one-third of our production.” ...
 
GAS PRICES FACT: Domestic Oil Production Has Soared Under President Obama | ThinkProgress

The number of oil drilling rigs in the U.S. hit a Record last week, having Quadrupled in number over the past Three years.
Between oil and gas drilling rigs, the U.S. now has more rigs at work than the rest of the world combined.
The current oil boom has buoyed the projections of some leading oil industry analysts:

“It’s Staggering,” said Marshall Adkins, who directs energy research for the financial services firm Raymond James.
“If we continue growing anywhere near that pace and keep squeezing demand out of the system, that puts you in a world where we are not importing oil in 10 years.”​
 
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From the Wall Street Journal:

The coal industry has been hit by competition from cheap natural gas, but Alpha made clear in its announcement that an equal problem is a Washington “regulatory environment that’s aggressively aimed at constraining the use of coal.” That’s a direct reference to the deluge of Obama Environmental Protection Agency regulations designed to force the closure of coal-fired power plants.​


Like I said...
Alpha Natural Resources is entitled to whatever opinion they wish, but what they said really does not surprise me. In situations when people fail they often look for a scapegoat to explain why they are not doing better, and in this situation the federal government makes a wonderful scapegoat.

Even if we entertain the notion for the decline in the coal industry is due to federal regulations, for me personally, it does not change much. Capitalism is very much like evolution in that those who can best adapt to constantly changing situations will survive. Despite these supposed onerous EPA regulations the natural gas industry is managing to prosper while the coal industry is having to change how they do business in order to survive. What is going with the American energy sector is a great example of how capitalism works.

So, again, what problem do you have with capitalism?
 
Alpha Natural Resources is entitled to whatever opinion they wish, but what they said really does not surprise me. In situations when people fail they often look for a scapegoat to explain why they are not doing better, and in this situation the federal government makes a wonderful scapegoat.

Even if we entertain the notion for the decline in the coal industry is due to federal regulations, for me personally, it does not change much. Capitalism is very much like evolution in that those who can best adapt to constantly changing situations will survive. Despite these supposed onerous EPA regulations the natural gas industry is managing to prosper while the coal industry is having to change how they do business in order to survive. What is going with the American energy sector is a great example of how capitalism works.

So, again, what problem do you have with capitalism?

You know, dude...you are a real piece of work.

Obama has clearly stated his intentions to shut down the coal industry and when a company has to shut down and they cite Obama's actions, you say "they often look for a scapegoat". As if it's their own fault and they are avoiding blaming themselves.

Can you be any more despicable?
 
Wow! A promise President Obama is actually trying to make good on. He said he wanted to bankrupt the coal industry. Next will be Rep. Waters' dream of bankrupting the banks through taxation.
 
You know, dude...you are a real piece of work.

Obama has clearly stated his intentions to shut down the coal industry and when a company has to shut down and they cite Obama's actions, you say "they often look for a scapegoat". As if it's their own fault and they are avoiding blaming themselves.

Can you be any more despicable?
First of all, you can get off your high horse.

Yes, President Obama did say that he wanted to bankrupt the coal industry while he was running for president in 2008. The only thing is with the proliferation of hydraulic fracturing the natural gas industry managed to beat him to it. I do not understand what is so hard to understand about that.

And, yes, I am blaming the coal industry, in this case Alpha Natural Resources, for becoming an uncompetitive form of energy. Instead of better preparing for the future they were caught flatfooted, and at least for the time being, natural gas looks to be the future in the energy sector.

Finally, you are right that they are avoiding blaming themselves for their own business failures. They have made it clear that the regulatory structure of the federal government is the reason for these mine closures.
 
First of all, you can get off your high horse.

Yes, President Obama did say that he wanted to bankrupt the coal industry while he was running for president in 2008. The only thing is with the proliferation of hydraulic fracturing the natural gas industry managed to beat him to it. I do not understand what is so hard to understand about that.

And, yes, I am blaming the coal industry, in this case Alpha Natural Resources, for becoming an uncompetitive form of energy. Instead of better preparing for the future they were caught flatfooted, and at least for the time being, natural gas looks to be the future in the energy sector.

Finally, you are right that they are avoiding blaming themselves for their own business failures. They have made it clear that the regulatory structure of the federal government is the reason for these mine closures.

Natural gas is cheap right now, but may not remain so.

Existing commodity price dynamics make natural gas the "safest play," for building a new power plant. However, overbuilding gas-fired infrastructure could set the stage for considerable gas price increases over the longer term.

In the US, gas is clearly the most-favorable option given existing economic, political and environmental conditions and that is exactly where the danger lies.

Mohler explained that betting on gas does not remove volatility from the equation over the long term and utility customers do not want their bills to fluctuate wildly. The potential for gas overbuild is a concern for Duke, which says it attempts to maintain a balanced generation portfolio and views any individual component rising above 30% of its total fuel mix as potentially problematic. The main concern for Duke - and many other US utilities - is making decisions based on current commodity prices and economics that risk unbalancing their generation portfolios. Over the longer term, changing dynamics and commodity price fluctuations, including more expensive gas, would hurt the utility and its customers.
Coal, Nuclear And Natural Gas: What Will Keep The Lights On?

Now that market dynamic is bad enough for the energy industry to deal with, but it's how the market works. These people can handle it. But when you toss in the EPA, it screws everything up.

Undue Burden

Among the power companies challenging the rule were Southern, EME Homer City Generation LP, a unit of Edison International, and Energy Future Holdings Corp. units in Texas. The state of Texas and the National Mining Association joined in parallel cases, saying the rule, which was issued last year, would put an undue financial burden on power producers and threaten electricity reliability. The cases were consolidated by the court.

For Republican lawmakers, who have accused President Barack Obama’s EPA for waging a “war on coal,” the ruling was welcomed as a much-needed reprieve.

The cross-state rule “is just one of several new EPA rules targeting America’s power sector that together will cost our economy tens of billions of dollars and put thousands of jobs at risk,” Fred Upton, the Michigan Republican chairman of the House Energy and Commerce Committee, said in a statement. “The EPA is an agency out of control.”

The EPA also proposed rules for greenhouse gases from power plants, a regulation that power companies warn will preclude the construction of new coal-fired power plants.
Coal Plants

In reality, the effect on energy prices for the consumer is being muted, for the time being at least, by natural gas...but the Obama administration is the prime thorn in the side for the coal industry and is the cause of the job losses. Not poor business practices.
 
Natural gas is cheap right now, but may not remain so.



Now that market dynamic is bad enough for the energy industry to deal with, but it's how the market works. These people can handle it. But when you toss in the EPA, it screws everything up.



In reality, the effect on energy prices for the consumer is being muted, for the time being at least, by natural gas...but the Obama administration is the prime thorn in the side for the coal industry and is the cause of the job losses. Not poor business practices.

Being out-competed by a cheaper product isn't a poor business practice, it's just reality.

Coal would be far more expensive if its actual costs were included in the bill you get from the power company.
 
Being out-competed by a cheaper product isn't a poor business practice, it's just reality.

Coal would be far more expensive if its actual costs were included in the bill you get from the power company.

LOL!!!

If the cost for Obama's regulations were itemized on that bill, Obama would be tossed out on his ear.
 
It begins... The lay offs are coming thanks to Obama's new EPA regs, which is just what our economy needed.

Four more years... I don't think so.



http://www.nytimes.com/2012/09/19/u...close-several-mines.html?_r=2&ref=todayspaper

It has almost nothing to do with Obama's cracking down on a dirty, polluting industry. Heck, under Obama, the US has become a net exporter of petroleum for the first time in half a century.

Rather, it has almost everything to do with the development of natural gas fracking. In the energy industry, money talks. Coal, at long last, seems to be going the way of the dinosaur. :)
 
Alpha Natural Resources is entitled to whatever opinion they wish, but what they said really does not surprise me. In situations when people fail they often look for a scapegoat to explain why they are not doing better, and in this situation the federal government makes a wonderful scapegoat.

Even if we entertain the notion for the decline in the coal industry is due to federal regulations, for me personally, it does not change much. Capitalism is very much like evolution in that those who can best adapt to constantly changing situations will survive. Despite these supposed onerous EPA regulations the natural gas industry is managing to prosper while the coal industry is having to change how they do business in order to survive. What is going with the American energy sector is a great example of how capitalism works.

So, again, what problem do you have with capitalism?

The natural gas industry is flourishing because of favorable regulation and fracking. The government is stepping out of the way while they poison our water tables and soil. At the same time it's tightening up on the coal industry that poisons our air. That's not capaitalism, that's the federal government demonizing one industry and promoting another to look "green" in the face of this climate change the sky is falling distraction.

You're being played big time.
 
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