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Controversial 'Piss Christ' art back in NY

Oh absolutely one does have everything to do with the other on several different levels...

1. The disgusting photo is very insulting to devout Christians in this country as well as others, just as this simple, low budget youtube video is insulting to Muslims.

2. We have free speech in this country to do this, that is what the SCOTUS upheld, however, the Obama administration felt it necessary to publicly march the maker of the video out under Sheriff parade for the camera's they said for questioning, and then asked youtube if they would reconsider pulling the video (a clear attempt to censor) to which youtube said no, good for them. Are they asking Seranno to not display his trash?

3. Obama's administration has made a point of shaping his policy in the ME based on appeasement, and deference to their sensibilities, where as here in the US he has made it a point to dismiss Christians, bully Christians, and now he has the chance to show that he is even handed in his condemnation of insulting productions by Americans, and will he? no, and you will dismiss that unequal treatment in any way you can.



So why put out an apology commercial to Pakistan then?



You are conflating into an argument that which has not been argued by me. That is a strawman argument sir.



Ah, but that is just it, there are those that see nothing wrong with Sharia being instituted in the US, including those sitting on the SC bench that tend to look outside the constitution to arrive at their decisions.

I am not effected the same way you are; as demonstrated by your post. Should this image bother me I do not look. I what I do is respect freedom of speech. Should I disagree I would contact my elected representative and see if I could have a law passed prohibiting such depictions which I find offensive.

There are cases where attempts to have sharia recognized as valid law have only in rejection of sharia, in a substantive manner.
 
I am not effected the same way you are; as demonstrated by your post. Should this image bother me I do not look. I what I do is respect freedom of speech. Should I disagree I would contact my elected representative and see if I could have a law passed prohibiting such depictions which I find offensive.

There are cases where attempts to have sharia recognized as valid law have only in rejection of sharia, in a substantive manner.

Well, Sharia law only applies to voluntary civil arbitration between Muslims.. so the issue is a bit of silliness. Devout Catholics want a dispensation from the church for an annulment and pious Jews want a Get for divorce.

Its no threat to State or Federal law. What it does do is relieve the court dockets a bit.

I wouldn't give it a second thought.

Arbitration has been around for decades.
 
I don't know what to say.. except How bloody stupid..

How about instead of just being insulting you answer what I asked you?

Employees for Catholic hospitals don't have to abide by Catholic dogma.

No one said they do. But if they are going to take the job then they accept that BC is not offered in advance.
 
How about instead of just being insulting you answer what I asked you?



No one said they do. But if they are going to take the job then they accept that BC is not offered in advance.

Suit yourself.. All non-compliant protestants and Catholics should simply quit..

Heck 98% of Catholics ignore the BS about birth control.
 
I am not effected the same way you are; as demonstrated by your post.

Oh please tell me how I am effected...? We are just having a conversation revolving around opinion, no?

Should this image bother me I do not look. I what I do is respect freedom of speech. Should I disagree I would contact my elected representative and see if I could have a law passed prohibiting such depictions which I find offensive.

Just taking a guess, but like say, a cross on a hill?

There are cases where attempts to have sharia recognized as valid law have only in rejection of sharia, in a substantive manner.

Sorry Connery, you are DEAD WRONG!

Opponents of the Islamic center in New York City raise another specter: They say radical Muslims have a plan to impose Islamic law, known as Shariah, on American citizens. But U.S. courts already accommodate Shariah law, following a long history of incorporating religious laws into the U.S. legal system.

Religious Laws Long Recognized By U.S. Courts : NPR

Care to try again?
 
Suit yourself.. All non-compliant protestants and Catholics should simply quit..

No, If you want separation of Church and State, then keep the State out of religion. Simple.

Heck 98% of Catholics ignore the BS about birth control.

That is for the Church to address...Using it as some justification shows how utterly weak your case is.
 
Religion need to stay out of denying their employees access to BC. It's no business of the Church.
 
No, If you want separation of Church and State, then keep the State out of religion. Simple.

That is for the Church to address...Using it as some justification shows how utterly weak your case is.

The State doesn't care about religion, just equality in healthcare insurance.

Why are you so threatened?
 
Well, Sharia law only applies to voluntary civil arbitration between Muslims.. so the issue is a bit of silliness. Devout Catholics want a dispensation from the church for an annulment and pious Jews want a Get for divorce.

Its no threat to State or Federal law. What it does do is relieve the court dockets a bit.

I wouldn't give it a second thought.

Arbitration has been around for decades.

Why Sharon why?

A good example is the case in NJ where the husband forced sex with his wife the court viewed "a conflict between the criminal law and religious precepts,” the appellate court held that the defendant knowingly engaged in non-consensual sexual intercourse and thus could not be excused for his religious beliefs."

There was a case in new Jersey where Muslim beat his wife then raped her. The husband was Muslim and wanted religious law to be controlling this situation and the court denied the wife a restraining order. The Appeals court reversed the lower court and granted the restraining order stating reasoning that religious law does not exempt the husband from criminal law.
 
The State doesn't care about religion, just equality in healthcare insurance.

No, Obama thinks he doesn't have to abide by the Constitution he swore to uphold. He thinks that if there is something, or someone in his way to getting what he wants, he can dictate it be done around Congress, by either fiat, or bully tactic.

He is America's first dictator.
 
I take Andres Serrano, the artist, at his word when he claims that the photograph"alludes to a perceived commercializing or cheapening of Christian icons in contemporary culture." Piss Christ - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Let's look at the photo:

View attachment 67135002

I would like to see an artist made print of the photo to see it in the color and saturation that Serrano intended. This scan probably does not do the original justice.

I think the image is well composed and has a soft quality that makes the crucified Christ look even more tragic than it would out of the urine. The lighting particularly is well chosen. To me, the photo says that the sacrifice of Christ on the cross retains its dignity, perhaps it is even enhanced, by the degradation and marginalization of the crucifixion in popular culture.

All Christians know that persecution is coming, because it has been foretold. We must all expect to suffer for His name. Serrano, whether intentionally or unintentionally, has made an artistic statement about that very reality. Through it all, Christ's sacrifice retains its deep significance, and our salvation is not diminished one bit by the slings and arrows of those who hate or trivialize the word of God.

dude's dehydrated. somebody, get that man an 8 oz glass of water. :lol:
 
Oh please tell me how I am effected...? We are just having a conversation revolving around opinion, no?



Just taking a guess, but like say, a cross on a hill?



Sorry Connery, you are DEAD WRONG!



Care to try again?

yea sure....

No one can be legally bound by religious law because religious laws cannot be espoused by the government. If the parties agree to it, religious laws cannot conflict with criminal or civil laws under the First Amendment, it would be enforceable within the religious community. "(See Watson v. Jones, 80 U.S. 679 (1872) (“All who united themselves to such a body [the general church] do so with an implied consent to [its] government, and are bound to submit to it.”)."

Foreign or religious law can and should be used in certain situations. "For example, parties to a contract enjoy a great deal of leeway to establish binding agreements requiring contractual disputes to be submitted to arbitration. In their arbitration agreement, the disputing parties can bind themselves to use a particular arbitrator. Courts have held that arbitration agreements providing for what is commonly referred to as “biblically based mediation” (relying on specified principles of the Christian Bible) are enforceable."

There have been attempts to use sharia law where domestic relations are at issue. For example, "sharia in domestic courts is S.D. v. M.J.R., a New Jersey domestic violence case. In that dispute, a Muslim wife filed for a restraining order against her husband after several instances of physical abuse and non-consensual sexual intercourse. Though the trial court found that the defendant had engaged in sexual acts that were clearly against his wife’s wishes, it did not grant a final restraining order because the husband lacked the requisite criminal intent to commit sexual assault. This decision was based on the theory that the defendant acted based on his religious belief that a husband may demand to have intercourse with his wife whenever he desired. On appeal, the New Jersey Appellate Division overturned the trial court’s decision and remanded the case to the lower court for entry of a final restraining order. Noting that the case involved “a conflict between the criminal law and religious precepts,” the appellate court held that the defendant knowingly engaged in non-consensual sexual intercourse and thus could not be excused for his religious beliefs."


Also, the government is prohibited from interfering with religious activities. "Proposals to ban sharia raise a serious dilemma for legal scholars and jurists because the composition of sharia remains debated among various Islamic sects and scholars. Without an authoritative body of law with specific parameters, courts may find themselves faced with a need to determine the precise principles of sharia and thus offer judgment on the content of a religious doctrine, which is generally impermissible under the First Amendment."

"In 1872, the Court recognized that matters of religious doctrine should be determined within the authority of the particular church and should be separate from any secular legal interpretation: The law knows no heresy, and is committed to the support of no dogma, the establishment of no sect. … "

All who united themselves to such a body [the general church] do so with an implied consent to [its] government, and are bound to submit to it. But it would be a vain consent and would lead to total subversion of such religious bodies, if any one aggrieved by one of their decisions could appeal to the secular courts and have them [sic] reversed. It is of the essence of these religious unions, and of their right to establish tribunals for the decision of questions arising among themselves, that those decisions should be binding in all cases of ecclesiastical cognizance, subject only to such appeals as the organism itself provides for*.


Thus, the Court established the principle that determinations of church doctrine and practice were to be free of government control well before it had even developed other aspects of its First Amendment jurisprudence. That general principle has since been cited by the Court in a number of First Amendment cases involving challenges of government interference in internal church matters."


http://www.fas.org/sgp/crs/misc/R41824.pdf

*(see Watson v. Jones, 80 U.S. 679 (1872), quoted in Presbyterian Church v. Hull Memorial Presbyterian Church, 393 U.S. 440, 446 (1969). See also Gonzalez v. Archbishop, 280 U.S. 1 (1929) (“In the absence of fraud, collusion, or arbitrariness, the decisions of the proper church tribunals on matters purely ecclesiastical, although affecting civil rights, are accepted in litigation before the secular courts as conclusive, because the parties in interest made them so by contract or otherwise.”).
 
Why Sharon why?

A good example is the case in NJ where the husband forced sex with his wife the court viewed "a conflict between the criminal law and religious precepts,” the appellate court held that the defendant knowingly engaged in non-consensual sexual intercourse and thus could not be excused for his religious beliefs."

There was a case in new Jersey where Muslim beat his wife then raped her. The husband was Muslim and wanted religious law to be controlling this situation and the court denied the wife a restraining order. The Appeals court reversed the lower court and granted the restraining order stating reasoning that religious law does not exempt the husband from criminal law.

Sharia law forbids a man to rape his wife, but grants her the right to reasonable sexual satisfaction from her husband... If not, its grounds for her to seek divorce with child support and child custody.

Weird, huh?
 
The movie raised critical thought about how we interact with religion.

The stupid picture was just meant to demean Christians.



See how BS personal interpretation based on ones personal agenda works?

At least we can understand Sharon's point of view, wishing as he does for the jackboot of Islamist totalitarianism to stomp upon the human face forever.

Why winston is being similarly hypocritical is anybody's guess.
 
Heck 98% of Catholics ignore the BS about birth control.

98% of Muslims ignore the stupid 'no Mohammad cartoons' BS, but you sure seem to think the ones who don't are important.
 
Why winston is being similarly hypocritical is anybody's guess.

It's obviously because he met the guy and he wants that to be special. People love their anecdotal evidence. Like there's a big difference between Piss Christ and Evil Mohammad. They can spare me the nuance.
 
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It's obviously because he met the guy and he wants that to be special. Like there's a big difference between Piss Christ and Evil Mohammad. They can spare me the nuance.

I also happen to have Master's in studio art with a major in photography.
 
I also happen to have Master's in studio art with a major in photography.

And you claim, physically, the piece is mundane. But it has all this magical critical thought dimension that Evil Mohammad doesn't. Whatevs.
 
I also happen to have Master's in studio art with a major in photography.

and having such leads inexorably to holding patently hypocritical views based upon the religion being insulted?
 
And you claim, physically, the piece is mundane. But it has all this magical critical thought dimension that Evil Mohammad doesn't. Whatevs.

I said the baggage around Piss Christ makes it interesting.

The video OTOH is on par with Nazi propaganda about Jews.
 
Sharia law forbids a man to rape his wife, but grants her the right to reasonable sexual satisfaction from her husband... If not, its grounds for her to seek divorce with child support and child custody.

Weird, huh?

Sharon the point is the man wanted a US court to use his religious law as the guiding authority, did not work out for him..
 
At least we can understand Sharon's point of view, wishing as he does for the jackboot of Islamist totalitarianism to stomp upon the human face forever.

Why winston is being similarly hypocritical is anybody's guess.

I am not a "he".. I am a Christian grandmother.. who is very disappointed in the level of education for people such as yourself.

I always want Americans to be the brightest and the best...

Its too bad, isn't it?
 
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I am not a "he".. I am a Christian grandmother.. who is very disappointed in the level of education for people such as yourself.

I always want Americans to be the brightest and the best...

Its too bad, isn't it?

Well, the folks at Stanford thought I was good enough to admit.

For some strange reason, I consider their judgement a bit better than yours.
 
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