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Libyans See al Qaeda Hand in Embassy Attack

Grant said:
But only after they saw the trailer, huh?, and then they became so pissed off they began killing people at random, including other Muslims.
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That's what violent extemist acts produce - violence without regard of who gets caught in the crossfire.

That is what Bush referred to as "The soft bigotry of lowered expectations", though that bigotry isn't always so soft. It seems you really don't expect much from Muslims.
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I expect nothing more from Muslim extremist than I do of racist or man chauvanist. Each takes pre-conceived notions and :spin: them into hateful rhetoric to promote their cause. It's only after such people have been re-educated or die-off do things begin to change.

You should remember that Muslims in Libya helped recover the bodies of our fallen Americans and are now fighting back against anti-American rebels and anti-American terror groups.

As for my expectation of Muslims, I don't spend a whole lot of time worrying about what members of another religious group or society does or how they live their lives thousands of miles across the oceans. I have plenty to keep me busy right here in my own backyard. My hope is that someday the duly elected leaders of these countries come to realize that the fate of their people rest in personal empowerment and NOT what outside influences direct their lives based on the policies of another country. Muslims with anti-American views need to come to the realization that America, though a powerful and influencial nation, doesn't hold their future in their hands. THEY DO! - or rather the nation's citizens. As such, they have to choose between a live of violence and a life or relative peace where their voices are heard not from terrorist acts broadcast around the world but rather by their demans of their governments to lead their people and provide opportunities for them to propser, grow and expand.

It's not until the "quite citizens" stand up and speak in one loud voice against the violence of Mulsim extremism and the corruption of governments will Muslim nations begin to move away from tyranny and into prosperity and peace.
 
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iguanaman said:
Maybe we don't enjoy helping terrorists as much as you. I believe the ruse that Alqeada was not involved was an attempt to fool the attackers into believing they are not being pursued. You don't like that because it may have made catching them easier. Politics make strange bedfellows.
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One problem with your attempt at spinning this, obama himself is STILL talking like it wasn't a terrorist attack even after everyone else in the white house is finally admitting it was. The man is truly delusional and reminds me more of Jimmy carter every day, he lives in his own little make believe world where everything he touches turns to gold.
 
Objective Voice said:
The Obama Administration mentions the anti-Islam film because according to preliminary evidence many of the anti-American protests were initiated not because of a coordinate attack planned by Muslim extremist but rather were excalated due to the mass circulation of the anti-Islam film via social networking. As I stated in my previous post, it is quite possible that there was a blending of anti-American protest and Muslim extremist using the film as a springboard to piggy backing off one another to promote violence. Sounds far-fetched, but based on what little evidence that has been made public that seems to be the case here.
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There are plenty of "anti Muslim" clips on Youtube and other web sites that could enrage Muslims but they just happened to pick the one made by that poor bugger in California. There have been riots over cartoons, beauty contests, ice cream swirls, banking logos, and on and on. The main think for Islamists is to riot, which they will then blame on the west and, as we have seen, western leaders will be quick to accept responsibility and attack whoever the Islamists blame.

The next riot will happen in the new year and they will blame whoever they want for it and we will respond quickly to blame whoever they pick. That's been the pattern for over a decade and there is no indication that will change.
 
sawyerloggingon said:
One problem with your attempt at spinning this, obama himself is STILL talking like it wasn't a terrorist attack even after everyone else in the white house is finally admitting it was. The man is truly delusional and reminds me more of Jimmy carter every day, he lives in his own little make believe world where everything he touches turns to gold.
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BHO is the only western leader, or any leader for that matter, who can make people nostalgic for Jimmy Carter.
 
Objective Voice said:
That's what violent extemist acts produce - violence without regard of who gets caught in the crossfire.
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Which "violent extemist act" produced the Islamist murders and riots?
I expect nothing more from Muslim extremist than I do of racist or man chauvanist.
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Wonderful. But racists and male chauvinists are not the topic of conversation.
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Connery said:
I had made a distinction in my previous posts and you responded with "this is NOT the case in Muslim lands".....now you wish to make my position your position.....not happening here.
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My position has been consistent.. Perhaps I misunderstood you.
 
Grant said:
Why Americans would vote for this obvious loser remains a mystery but perhaps, over the past few years, they have come to identify more with losers than winners. Winners make them nervous, as does self reliance and responsibility. That's the only way to explain a vote for Barrack Obama.
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Well, I can think of a few other reasons. But then I'm not a far right wing zealot, who would rather elect a rich boy with absolutely no ideas, no convictions, no real core principles other than makingf as much money as he can, and no understanding of how the vast majority of americans live, solely because he isn't Barack Obama.
 
Wiggen said:
Well, I can think of a few other reasons. But then I'm not a far right wing zealot, who would rather elect a rich boy with absolutely no ideas, no convictions, no real core principles other than makingf as much money as he can, and no understanding of how the vast majority of americans live, solely because he isn't Barack Obama.
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How can you be a "far right wing zealot" with no convictions or ideas?
 
Objective Voice said:
That's what violent extemist acts produce - violence without regard of who gets caught in the crossfire.
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Let's remember what I was responding to specifically:

Grant said:
But only after they saw the trailer, huh?, and then they became so pissed off they began killing people at random, including other Muslims.
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Which answers your question...

Which "violent extemist act" produced the Islamist murders and riots?
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My initial response applies moreso to those riotous acts that took place "after" the riots in Ciaro and Benghazi. As to the broader point I belileve you are trying to make, towit, "What prompts these Muslim extremist to riot against anti-American sentiments?," the answer is rather diverse. However, we simplify it by merely saying that "they (Islamists...Muslims...or put more accurately Muslim extremist) hate America!" when the truth is they really hate American political influence in their social-political affairs. The sooner we as a nation recognizes this as the basis for changing the hearts and minds of Islamist, if possible, the sooner we'll likely be able to force their anger more inward toward their "democratically elected government, choosen by their people," not our government, (i.e., so-called puppet regimes).

That's the part of spreading democracy that most people really don't seem to grasp. Case and point:

Thread: Egypt's president wants more independence from US

On the eve of his first visit to the United States as Egypt's president, Islamist Mohammed Morsi said he will demonstrate more independence from the U.S. in decision-making than his predecessor Hosni Mubarak and told Washington not to expect Egypt to live by its rules.

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Morsi criticized U.S. dealings with the Arab world, saying it is not possible to judge Egyptian behavior and decision-making by American cultural standards. He said Washington earned ill will in the region in the past by backing dictators and taking "a very clear" biased approach against the Palestinians and for Israel.

Successive American administrations essentially purchased with American taxpayer money the dislike, if not the hatred, of the peoples of the region," he told the paper in the interview published late Saturday, drawing a clear distinction between the American government and the American people. Those administrations "have taken a very clear biased approach against something that (has) very strong emotional ties to the people of the region that is the issue of Palestine."

He stressed that unlike his predecessor, Mubarak, he will behave "according to the Egyptian people's choice and will, nothing else."
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Source: YahooNews.com, http://news.yahoo.com/egypts-president-wants-more-independence-us-142847003.html

Grant said:
Wonderful. But racists and male chauvinists are not the topic of conversation.
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True. However, I brought up those issues because they speak to the broader point: Unless you educate people about the issues at hand, those who take such drastic opposing views will likely never change their perspective or positions on such issues. The alternative is to allow time along with social changes to heal wounds and bridge divides.
 
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Objective Voice said:
Which answers your question...
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No, it doesn't because even the Obama Administration has backed off that silliness now.


My initial response applies moreso to those riotous acts that took place "after" the riots in Ciaro and Benghazi. As to the broader point I belileve you are trying to make, towit, "What prompts these Muslim extremist to riot against anti-American sentiments?," the answer is rather diverse. However, we simplify it by merely saying that "they (Islamists...Muslims...or put more accurately Muslim extremist) hate America!" when the truth is they really hate American political influence in their social-political affairs. The sooner we as a nation recognizes this as the basis for changing the hearts and minds of Islamist, if possible, the sooner we'll likely be able to force their anger more inward toward their "democratically elected government, choosen by their people," not our government, (i.e., so-called puppet regimes).
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You are not quoting me accurately. The fact is that it is not only Americans who are being threatened and/or murdered. It is not just Americans lives which have been lost or whose property has been destroyed.
True. However, I brought up those issues because they speak to the broader point:
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This habit of 'speaking to the broader point' only serves to obfuscate the issue.

Unless you educate people about the issues at hand, those who take such drastic opposing views will likely never change their perspective or positions on such issues. The alternative is to allow time along with social changes to heal wounds and bridge divides.
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Who do you feel needs the educating?
 
Grant,

The White House still believes that the anti-Islam video played a role in the recent terrorist attacks. There may be speculation as to how coordinated the attacks were between protesters and terrorist groups, but people from within the intellegence community, State Dept. and the Obama Administration (White House) still consider the video a piece of the puzzle where the recent violence is concerned.

As to clouded judgements (i.e., "obfuscate the issue"), things remain muddled only if people refused to take off their partisan blinders. In this case, if people refuse to accept the fact that spreading democracy in Muslim countries particularly where strongly held anti-American views become the lynch-pin for violence is difficult as long as certain factions still view their newly elected governments as "puppet regimes" put in power by the U.S. government, then there will be rough patches along the way for said countries to establish democratized governments where their leaderes lead according to the laws of their land and the will of their people.

That's what we in America need to be educated on - that spreading democracy is hard work and doesn't come easy. It's taken us 235 years to get to where we are today. Do you really think such will happen in Egypt, Libya, Iraq and eventually Afghanistan in just a few months or even a year?
 
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Objective Voice said:
Grant,

The White House still believes that the anti-Islam video played a role in the recent terrorist attacks.
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Then that shouldn't encourage any confidence in the White House, though in fact different members of the administration are offering different opinions.

There may be speculation as to how coordinated the attacks were between protesters and terrorist groups, but people from within the intellegence community, State Dept. and the Obama Administration (White House) still consider the video a piece of the puzzle where the recent violence is concerned.
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If they sincerely believe that, which I doubt, then the west democracies face a very difficult future.
As to clouded judgements (i.e., "obfuscate the issue"), things remain muddled only if people refused to take off their partisan blinders. In this case, if people refuse to accept the fact that spreading democracy in Muslim countries particularly where strongly held anti-American views become the lynch-pin for violence is difficult as long as certain factions still view their newly elected governments as "puppet regimes" put in power by the U.S. government, then there will be rough patches along the way for said countries to establish democratized governments where their leaderes lead according to the laws of their land and the will of their people.
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Radical Islamic leaders do not want democracy. This is about religion, not democracy.
That's what we in America need to be educated on - that spreading democracy is hard work and doesn't come easy. It's taken us 235 years to get to where we are today. Do you really think such will happen in Egypt, Libya, Iraq and eventually Afghanistan in just a few months or even a year?
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Even Americans are no longer interested in democracy. They have left a void in Iraq and have announced when they are leaving Afghanistan.

At one time, as in the war on Communism, American policy remained somewhat consistent. Now its leadership, and the people themselves, have no idea what they want or where they are going. They don't even know what to call the problem with radical Islam. The country is adrift, the American people are demoralized and they are turning on each other and even their own Constitution.
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ecofarm said:
Tied for the first time.



Daily Presidential Tracking Poll - Rasmussen Reports™
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Interesting but largely irrelevant in the grand schem of things. What is important is who is winning the swing states in this election. And polls in those states show Obama still has a lead in most of them. Essentially, Romney has to win almost every swing state to win the election. Could he do it? Sure. But you'd rather be the other guy.

And Rasmussen is not the poll I'd bank on if I only had one.
 
Obama should get serious and go after the leaders of al-Qaida.
 
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