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Libya: Assault on U.S. consulate Benghazi leaves 4 dead, inc. U.S. Ambassador[W:939]

Re: Libya: Assault on U.S. consulate in Benghazi leaves 4 dead, including U.S. Ambass

I thought he was compared to Van Gogh? Not riots but potential death threats and murder. Obviously if anyone criticizes Islam they anticipate threats, as sad as that may be.


They get criticized here in Chicago.....and the Gang Bangers will say or write anything they like about the Prophet Mohammed. Do you think any Arabs stand up and do anything? Do you think they call and make death threats to the Bangers here. They get their azz beat around here anytime and all the time. NOT ONE OF THEM Got any balls to stand up to Bangers. Who will Pull a pistol out and start popping caps in their azzes. NOW WHY is it Not One Arab will get up and Open their big mouth or why is it that Not ONE Will Attempt to do anything about it.

DO you think they understand those who wont play with them?
 
Re: Libya: Assault on U.S. consulate in Benghazi leaves 4 dead, including U.S. Ambass

Should we have shared the planet with the Nazis in 1941?

So now you are comparing Muslims to Nazies? .... tsk... that ended that debate fast. Guess I could start comparing Nazi actions to that of Israel to make it a full closing of the thread or moving it to the Middle East dictatorship area.
 
Re: Libya: Assault on U.S. consulate in Benghazi leaves 4 dead, including U.S. Ambass

... and what the governmental authorities did when they learned the protest and then battle was going on. I am waiting to hear the body count of Libyan law enforcement and military in trying to defend the embassy. If it is zero, I count it as an act of war by the Libyan government against the USA.

Thanks for the reply , we finally we are getting at the heart of the matter!!!!!!! What action did the Libya government take in this situation? If they intentionally allowed or aided these people then clearly it is an act of war. If they were simply negligent, I would hold them accountable, but, I would be not so fast to declare war on this country. There are other ways to handle this within governments which are more effective while getting a desired result.


The Libya already admitted to a breach of security.

Libyan officials spent the night in a manhunt trying to find those responsible for the killings, which occurred when an angry armed mob attacked the diplomatic complex. By midday Wednesday, no one had been arrested for the violence or the deaths, and officials in Tripoli were scrambling to implement a response to what they admitted was a monumental security breach.

Libya's new government has struggled to impose its authority on a myriad of gangs and former rebel brigades that remain armed and act outside the law. New security officials have had mixed success in implementing a plan whereby former rebels would be disbanded from their old brigades and given jobs as part of the new national army, defense forces and border guards.

One witness to the consulate attack Tuesday night said that a handful of Libyan soldiers dressed in the uniform of the new national army were on patrol outside the U.S. diplomatic structure when the mob arrived, but that they were almost immediately overwhelmed.

U.S. Ambassador to Libya Is Killed - WSJ.com
 
Re: Libya: Assault on U.S. consulate in Benghazi leaves 4 dead, including U.S. Ambass

Yes we do, but their irrationalities do not trump my freedom.

Soooooo, had he simply decided to be responsible he would not have his unearned freedom? To have freedom means irresponsible acts? You see, it's easy to practice your freedoms irresponsibly when you don't have to face the consequences. That's for others to die for. The same others who actually have earned their freedoms and die because people like this director leech from them.

I find no courage in a person who is so full of hate that they would produce film or burn Qu'rans.....yet never even face them. It's the worst kind of coward our Western privileged society produces.
 
Re: Libya: Assault on U.S. consulate in Benghazi leaves 4 dead, including U.S. Ambass

Yes, but you have to remember that this is not the Libya of Gadaffi.. law and order is at best a bit iffy, and "government control" is hardly universal. They are still arguing over who should hold Saif Gadaffi.



Yes they did, but considering that the attack could have been by Al Q and battle harden terrorists.. then not much they could have done. One could say, that it was stupid to have a consulate there in the first place.



Nope US law.. well actually US law does apply within the consulate. Hence the murder of the Ambassador could be tried in the US.. including a trial against the maker of the movie.. in theory any ways. We shall see..

Enough of this.. blood pressure getting too high, time to not debate for a few hours.... stupid high blood pressure crap.


Within the consulate yes, but, that is not applicable to the gravamen of the argument.
 
Re: Libya: Assault on U.S. consulate in Benghazi leaves 4 dead, including U.S. Ambass

So now you are comparing Muslims to Nazies? .... tsk... that ended that debate fast. Guess I could start comparing Nazi actions to that of Israel to make it a full closing of the thread or moving it to the Middle East dictatorship area.

No, I'm comparing bad guys to bad guys. You sound as if you condone the violence waged against my people yesterday. Is that what you're doing?

Let's face it, these people hate us. They're taught to hate us. The Koran tells them to hate us. It's in their DNA. No amount of appeasement is going to change their minds. They can't be reasoned with. The movie was just a convenient excuse; short of that, they would have come up with almost any excuse to do something like this.

I'm sick and tired of these mother****ers and their apologists.
 
Re: Libya: Assault on U.S. consulate in Benghazi leaves 4 dead, including U.S. Ambass

The Ambassador and staffers NEVER insulted Islam or the Prophet.... Americans should NOT be paying for Israeli actions.

As far as I know.....the film director doesnt call the shots for Israel.
 
Re: Libya: Assault on U.S. consulate in Benghazi leaves 4 dead, including U.S. Ambass

Disa west, that if you insult Islam then the reaction among some Muslims will be violent.

Now do I like the fact that we have to tiptoe around Muslims .. HELLLL no, but I also would rather tiptoe around Muslims than have riots and mass deaths. Especially when I know that the radical aspects of Islam use such provocations to gain and maintain their hold on the population. Basically such provocations push more and more people towards the radical part of Islam.. and that is exactly what we dont want.. and exactly what the movie maker and his followers do want.

The bolded amounts to placating and deferring to terrorists- and it is cowardly. You don't tolerate and tiptoe around violence to stop it. You confront it head-on. I don't care what their religion is, and I don't care if they believe we are all infidels. There are some of them who refuse to act in a civilized manner, and you don't treat incivility with tolerance, unless you want to encourage its growth.

They need to grow up and understand that their God is no more sacred than anyone else's.
 
Re: Libya: Assault on U.S. consulate in Benghazi leaves 4 dead, including U.S. Ambass

So now you are comparing Muslims to Nazies? .... tsk... that ended that debate fast. Guess I could start comparing Nazi actions to that of Israel to make it a full closing of the thread or moving it to the Middle East dictatorship area.

Those Islamists who kill people for insulting their religion are more like Nazis than they are unlike when it comes to rigidity of belief and the punishment they would mete out to those who do not adhere to such.

As to your potential statement comparing Nazi actions to Israel, you are certainly free to do so if you wish to say something truly stupid. At least for now, we still have that much freedom of expression here in the west, even if it is to display we don't have too much going on between the ears.
 
Re: Libya: Assault on U.S. consulate in Benghazi leaves 4 dead, including U.S. Ambass

Soooooo, had he simply decided to be responsible he would not have his unearned freedom? To have freedom means irresponsible acts? You see, it's easy to practice your freedoms irresponsibly when you don't have to face the consequences. That's for others to die for. The same others who actually have earned their freedoms and die because people like this director leech from them.

I find no courage in a person who is so full of hate that they would produce film or burn Qu'rans.....yet never even face them. It's the worst kind of coward our Western privileged society produces.

By that logic, it would be ok for me to go kill a few Muslims in retaliation. Those people in Lybia should have showed more responsibility and not driven me to it.
 
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Re: Libya: Assault on U.S. consulate in Benghazi leaves 4 dead, including U.S. Ambass

Soooooo, had he simply decided to be responsible he would not have his unearned freedom? To have freedom means irresponsible acts? You see, it's easy to practice your freedoms irresponsibly when you don't have to face the consequences. That's for others to die for. The same others who actually have earned their freedoms and die because people like this director leech from them.

I find no courage in a person who is so full of hate that they would produce film or burn Qu'rans.....yet never even face them. It's the worst kind of coward our Western privileged society produces.

I don't care what you find. Free means he can make the movie and just because others respond irrationally doesn't mean that he is responsible or should have his freedoms curtailed.
 
Re: Libya: Assault on U.S. consulate in Benghazi leaves 4 dead, including U.S. Ambass

No, I'm comparing bad guys to bad guys. You sound as if you condone the violence waged against my people yesterday. Is that what you're doing?

Let's face it, these people hate us. They're taught to hate us. The Koran tells them to hate us. It's in their DNA. No amount of appeasement is going to change their minds. They can't be reasoned with. The movie was just a convenient excuse; short of that, they would have come up with almost any excuse to do something like this.

I'm sick and tired of these mother****ers and their apologists.

And what will be your course of action having reached this state of anger and frustration?
 
Re: Libya: Assault on U.S. consulate in Benghazi leaves 4 dead, including U.S. Ambass

So your are on the side of the people who killed the Americans? I'm not trying to be a smart*** but you seem to be endorsing violence against people who say something you don't like which is what those people were doing

I'm on my side.

My side does not include coward Americans safe at home practicing the rights they didnt earn for themsleves at the expense of those abroad doing the work.

My side does not include religious zealots who appoint themselves as God's executioners on earth.

You see, I've faced these zealots in Somalia, Iraq and Afghanistan. I have been to Egypt. I have been to Oman, Kuwait, and the UAE. I can confidently state that our enemy is a civilization. Not the few ("terrorists" as they are labeled) who merely represent them. Those who try to state otherwise are the same sort who pretend that Nazis weren't Germans. That somehow the two were distinctly different just as Islamic extremists are different from the Islamic civilization that breeds and nurtures them.

But I will not abide the idea that a piece of **** in America gets to cause the death of Americans abroad because he feels that he must celebrate the freedoms he didn't earn by insulting and stoking fires needlessly. There have been a plethora of books and articles written on the matter. This had nothing to do with him "blowing the whistle" on a religion. This had everything to do with his personal hatred forced upon the world. In the end, this "director" will refuse his responsibility in this because people like you will allow him off the hook. He was an idiot. He is a fool. And now Americans abroad are dead because of it. They aren't dead because of his rights. He had his rights without his stupid video. Others earned that for him. And now others are dead because of him.
 
Re: Libya: Assault on U.S. consulate in Benghazi leaves 4 dead, including U.S. Ambass

They get criticized here in Chicago.....and the Gang Bangers will say or write anything they like about the Prophet Mohammed. Do you think any Arabs stand up and do anything? Do you think they call and make death threats to the Bangers here. They get their azz beat around here anytime and all the time. NOT ONE OF THEM Got any balls to stand up to Bangers. Who will Pull a pistol out and start popping caps in their azzes. NOW WHY is it Not One Arab will get up and Open their big mouth or why is it that Not ONE Will Attempt to do anything about it.

DO you think they understand those who wont play with them?

Maybe the Jihadis don't know about gang banger insults.

Hey, I know! Let's tell them, then bring some of the Islamic nutters here, give them weapons, and let them wipe out the gang bangers!

No, maybe not. That would be like bringing in a family of skunks to get rid of possums living in your cellar.
 
Re: Libya: Assault on U.S. consulate in Benghazi leaves 4 dead, including U.S. Ambass

I don't care what you find. Free means he can make the movie and just because others respond irrationally doesn't mean that he is responsible or should have his freedoms curtailed.

Freedom of speech or the freedom to write or produce, is not just an individual act. It is something each member of our societies has to work for and protect, even if we disagree strongly with those views being expressed.

The recent trend seems to be that we will isolate those individuals from the rest of society, as we did with that reverend in Florida and are doing now with this filmmaker, rather than just letting them say whatever they like and then deciding for ourselves whether it contains merit or not.

If we don't stand together on these issues, no matter how much we may disagree with them, then the entire system begins to crumble.
 
Re: Libya: Assault on U.S. consulate in Benghazi leaves 4 dead, including U.S. Ambass

And what will be your course of action having reached this state of anger and frustration?

By the illogic being foisted by Pete, Sharon, and others, the proscribed action should be a murderous rampage against any people of the group he deems to have insulted his personal views with the resulting responsibility for such actions shifted away from him and on to his target group.
 
Re: Libya: Assault on U.S. consulate in Benghazi leaves 4 dead, including U.S. Ambass

"The whole atmosphere has changed for the better,” Stevens wrote in an email in July. “People smile more and are much more open with foreigners. Americans, French and British are enjoying unusual popularity. Let’s hope it lasts!”

In July, Chris said he was excited about the prospect of forthcoming Libyan elections and of showing Sen. John McCain around town during a visit.

He had got into the habit of a daily run through “our somewhat rural neighborhood of goat farms and olive groves and vineyards” and had tracked down his old tennis coach, Mohamed, for a weekly match.

“All in all, it’s great to be back,” he wrote, “especially in the ‘new Libya,’ as people here are saying.”

In a short personal postscript a few days later, he added: “It is quite amazing out here. And now it seems the Muslim Brotherhood has suffered a defeat at the polls! Strange and unexpected.”

US ambassador Chris Stevens killed in Libya - live updates | World news | guardian.co.uk

Really sad stuff to read with hindsight.
 
Re: Libya: Assault on U.S. consulate in Benghazi leaves 4 dead, including U.S. Ambass

I don't care what you find. Free means he can make the movie and just because others respond irrationally doesn't mean that he is responsible or should have his freedoms curtailed.

Yet freedoms are curtailed all the time. It's the cost of living decently in a society. But our society has so twisted up its morality that its the irresponsible that are celebrated and the responsible who get offended and killed.

He deserves to face those he offended. He is welcome to go to Libya and protest Islam and face the rage he ignites. He is free to do that. Of course, he is also free to cower behind American borders and behind American embassies and an American military who will go ahead and die for his bull ****. That's what our freedom really teaches us. Irresponsibility and the celebration of it at other's expense.
 
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Re: Libya: Assault on U.S. consulate in Benghazi leaves 4 dead, including U.S. Ambass

I'm on my side.

My side does not include coward Americans safe at home practicing the rights they didnt earn for themsleves at the expense of those abroad doing the work.

My side does not include religious zealots who appoint themselves as God's executioners on earth.

You see, I've faced these zealots in Somalia, Iraq and Afghanistan. I have been to Egypt. I have been to Oman, Kuwait, and the UAE. I can confidently state that our enemy is a civilization. Not the few ("terrorists" as they are labeled) who merely represent them. Those who try to state otherwise are the same sort who pretend that Nazis weren't Germans. That somehow the two were distinctly different just as Islamic extremists are different from the Islamic civilization that breeds and nurtures them.

But I will not abide the idea that a piece of **** in America gets to cause the death of Americans abroad because he feels that he must celebrate the freedoms he didn't earn by insulting and stoking fires needlessly. There have been a plethora of books and articles written on the matter. This had nothing to do with him "blowing the whistle" on a religion. This had everything to do with his personal hatred forced upon the world. In the end, this "director" will refuse his responsibility in this because people like you will allow him off the hook. He was an idiot. He is a fool. And now Americans abroad are dead because of it. They aren't dead because of his rights. He had his rights without his stupid video. Others earned that for him. And now others are dead because of him.

You are correct... the director is abusing freedoms he never earned, put Americans at risk and now is a coward in hiding who suddenly can't stand up for his "religious convictions".
 
Re: Libya: Assault on U.S. consulate in Benghazi leaves 4 dead, including U.S. Ambass

Freedom of speech or the freedom to write or produce, is not just an individual act. It is something each member of our societies has to work for and protect, even if we disagree strongly with those views being expressed.

The recent trend seems to be that we will isolate those individuals from the rest of society, as we did with that reverend in Florida and are doing now with this filmmaker, rather than just letting them say whatever they like and then deciding for ourselves whether it contains merit or not.

If we don't stand together on these issues, no matter how much we may disagree with them, then the entire system begins to crumble.

This Israeli Bacile didn't earn the right to Freedom of Speech.. and would not have freedom of speech in Israel..

Responsible adults do not lie, antagonize, provoke and insult without knowing that there are consequences.
 
Re: Libya: Assault on U.S. consulate in Benghazi leaves 4 dead, including U.S. Ambass

Yet freedoms are curtailed all the time. It's the cost of living decently in a society. But our society has so twisted up its morality that its the irresponsible that are celebrated and the responsible who get offended and killed.

He deserves to face those he offended. Or would that be too responsible for a people who send others to go off and die for their freedoms?

Are you suggesting that this filmmaker be turned over to the Muslims so they can try his fate?

What would you have us do?
 
Re: Libya: Assault on U.S. consulate in Benghazi leaves 4 dead, including U.S. Ambass

Have you seen the film.. Mohammed is portrayed as a pedophile, rapist, thief.. the worst .. It was designed to get the reaction that it got.

The director/producer blames embassy security.. He claims he is expressing his religious views and helping his country.. He has also gone into hiding.. So he is also a coward concerning his "beliefs".

So.....other religious leaders in this country are mocked ridiculed and disrespected all the time. Does this mean Islam is special? That others are going to put up with the excuses of those who believe in Islam yet get up and do nothing about their Clerics who want to go political to show they have control over a Mob of people?
 
Re: Libya: Assault on U.S. consulate in Benghazi leaves 4 dead, including U.S. Ambass

This Israeli Bacile didn't earn the right to Freedom of Speech.. and would not have freedom of speech in Israel..

Responsible adults do not lie, antagonize, provoke and insult without knowing that there are consequences.

How did you earn your right to freedom of speech?

if you are provoking me with your opinions would that give me the right to murder you, members of your family, or someone who shares the same nationality as you?
 
Re: Libya: Assault on U.S. consulate in Benghazi leaves 4 dead, including U.S. Ambass


It's OK though because this "director" has his personal freedom. It's easy to hate the fanatics in Libya over this. But the only difference between them and this "director" is that they had the conviction to act on their fanaticism. This "director," safe and sound, is a coward.
 
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