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Chicago Teachers Strike 2012

Josie said:
That's not what I said. Not all parents are to blame. Some parents work their asses off trying to help their child. Sometimes the kid has a horrible teacher. He might have a cognitive issue or behavioral issue.

My post was only about the BAD parents. I guess I assumed that was clear when it wasn't to some.
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Yes but it seems like anytime there is a discussion in this country about students performing poorly we're told that's because they have bad parents, cognitive or behavioral issues, etc.
 
Donahue said:
Yes but it seems like anytime there is a discussion in this country about students performing poorly we're told that's because they have bad parents, cognitive or behavioral issues, etc.
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Honestly, I think home life is the majority of it. Looking back almost 10 years at the kids I've seen that were waaaaay behind, the vast majority of them had parents who were either too stupid to help them (gotta be honest) or were too doped up to care. Some had some learning disability issues and a rare few had very hard-working, caring, informed parents.
 
Harry Guerrilla said:
They are leveraging.
It's basically, "we didn't get our way, so we won't show up to work and you have to find somewhere to put your kids."
"Just give us what we want and everything will go back to normal."

It tells me that they got their way for 25 years, that is, until budgetary realities caught up with them.
Hell, they aren't even getting a pay cut, just a more modest pay increase and they have the nerve to complain.




Schools are being closed, because running them is costing real dollars.
With a $700 million dollar budget deficit, which will balloon because of debt downgrades and higher interest rates, they have to cut education.
It's one of the largest budget items in Chicago.

Again, reality has caught up with CPU.




The first part is just conspiracy theory.
The latter was already known, this was going to happen because the demands of public ed, don't keep up with economic reality.
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Boy; you don't get it do you . . .

After 25 years the city; uh, Rob Emanuel, has decided that the teachers should give up collective bargaining and subject themselves to "politicized pay" which is the antithesis of collective barganing. The teachers should also work harder under worse conditions and then be responsible for those who don't cut it: right . . .

The tax payers for their aprt are supposed to take an inferioir education for their children because of the ever present budget constraints . . . Teachers are supposed to continue to supply material for the classrooms out of their own pockets under these conditions.

Lastly, (chuckle); aren;t you the guys always yelling about how Obama must be corrupt as he is from corrupt Chicago that has corrupt policits; so by default Rob Emanuel is corrupt. But - becasue he's fighting a union, he's not corrupt, and his reasoning isn't corrupt . . .

right
 
MaggieD said:
I have no problem with unions in the private sector. In the private sector, politics don't come into play. You have two sides negotiating at arm's length spending -- or not​ spending -- the company's money. What's unfair about that? Nothing, in my opinion.

In the public sector, you have two sides negotiating within the political arena spending taxpayers' money. Political pressures make negotiating at arm's length impossible from the "management side."
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Eloquently stated....
 
The Man said:
Well then please be so kind and explain it to me.
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Chicago teachers do not make an average $75 large: I sourced that earlier in the thread: you can read it. And the rest of you assertions are woefully inaccurate.
 
MaggieD said:
I have no problem with unions in the private sector. In the private sector, politics don't come into play. You have two sides negotiating at arm's length spending -- or not​ spending -- the company's money. What's unfair about that? Nothing, in my opinion.

In the public sector, you have two sides negotiating within the political arena spending taxpayers' money. Political pressures make negotiating at arm's length impossible from the "management side."
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So those voters and tax payers who work for the local and state government have no say and no rights in their employment . .

got ya; right . . .
 
jet57 said:
Boy; you don't get it do you . . .

After 25 years the city; uh, Rob Emanuel, has decided that the teachers should give up collective bargaining and subject themselves to "politicized pay" which is the antithesis of collective barganing. The teachers should also work harder under worse conditions and then be responsible for those who don't cut it: right . . .
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If that were true, then why are they trying to negotiate with the union?

Rohm, like it or not, has to reign in the budget.
CPS is a huge part of said budget.

Guess what gets cut first?

jet57 said:
The tax payers for their aprt are supposed to take an inferioir education for their children because of the ever present budget constraints . . . Teachers are supposed to continue to supply material for the classrooms out of their own pockets under these conditions.
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CPS is already providing an inferior education.
What they're trying to do is fix a shortfall in education, while trying to save money.
With a 5.5 hour in office work day and one of the highest compensation rates in the nation, increasing the work day is fixing a problem.

jet57 said:
Lastly, (chuckle); aren;t you the guys always yelling about how Obama must be corrupt as he is from corrupt Chicago that has corrupt policits; so by default Rob Emanuel is corrupt. But - becasue he's fighting a union, he's not corrupt, and his reasoning isn't corrupt . . .

right
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I'm sorry, you must have mistaken me for political douche who blames Obama and Chicago for all our ills.
You'll find no such person here.
 
And you're repetitive.

You don't even know the mayor's name despite his being the President's former Chief of Staff.

Here you go:

Why are the teachers striking?
The unions oppose Emanuel's demands for a new contract. Emanuel wants teachers to be evaluated under a new system that relies heavily on the results of standardized testing rather than tenure. Emanuel also wants to lengthen the school day, while replacing a scheduled 4 percent pay increase for 2012 with a gradual 16 percent salary bump spread out over four years. Emanuel argues that the reforms will weed out bad teachers, while helping to reduce the Chicago school system's $665 million deficit.

Why do teachers object to Rahm's plan?
They say that they can't be held accountable for how their students perform on tests. In teachers' view, when it comes to poor academic performance, "the main problem is poverty," not bad teachers, say Stephanie Simon and James B. Kelleher at Reuters. "They say their students do poorly because they're hungry, because their lives are chaotic, because they don't have the eyeglasses they need or quiet places to do their homework." Educators believe that the focus on teacher performance is not only misguided, but "a brazen attempt to shift public resources" to charter schools, which are publicly funded, privately run, and largely non-unionized.

Why Chicago teachers are striking: A guide - The Week
 
jet57 said:
Chicago teachers do not make an average $75 large: I sourced that earlier in the thread: you can read it. And the rest of you assertions are woefully inaccurate.
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An AVERAGE of $75K, yes they do. I didn't say, and no one said that they ALL get paid $75K/year. Do you know what an average is?

And how are the rest of my assertions inaccurate?
 
nota bene said:
And you're repetitive.

You don't even know the mayor's name despite his being the President's former Chief of Staff.

Here you go:

Why are the teachers striking?
The unions oppose Emanuel's demands for a new contract. Emanuel wants teachers to be evaluated under a new system that relies heavily on the results of standardized testing rather than tenure. Emanuel also wants to lengthen the school day, while replacing a scheduled 4 percent pay increase for 2012 with a gradual 16 percent salary bump spread out over four years. Emanuel argues that the reforms will weed out bad teachers, while helping to reduce the Chicago school system's $665 million deficit.

Why do teachers object to Rahm's plan?
They say that they can't be held accountable for how their students perform on tests. In teachers' view, when it comes to poor academic performance, "the main problem is poverty," not bad teachers, say Stephanie Simon and James B. Kelleher at Reuters. "They say their students do poorly because they're hungry, because their lives are chaotic, because they don't have the eyeglasses they need or quiet places to do their homework." Educators believe that the focus on teacher performance is not only misguided, but "a brazen attempt to shift public resources" to charter schools, which are publicly funded, privately run, and largely non-unionized.

Why Chicago teachers are striking: A guide - The Week
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What I say to that is, if performance isn't based on teachers ability to teach, then why are we paying them so much?
 
I'd say that's a good question. And I understand why evaluations can be scary...if you aren't competent.
 
nota bene said:
Why do teachers object to Rahm's plan?
They say that they can't be held accountable for how their students perform on tests. In teachers' view, when it comes to poor academic performance, "the main problem is poverty," not bad teachers, say Stephanie Simon and James B. Kelleher at Reuters. "They say their students do poorly because they're hungry, because their lives are chaotic, because they don't have the eyeglasses they need or quiet places to do their homework." Educators believe that the focus on teacher performance is not only misguided, but "a brazen attempt to shift public resources" to charter schools, which are publicly funded, privately run, and largely non-unionized.

Why Chicago teachers are striking: A guide - The Week
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1. The students are hungry -- don't most, if not all, public schools supply a breakfast?

2. Their lives are chaotic -- very true. Some kids come from insane families and that can affect their performance on tests.

3. Glasses -- aren't there charities that help pay for glasses for people who can't afford them?

4. Quiet places to do their homework -- study hall? The library?
 
nota bene said:
And you're repetitive.

You don't even know the mayor's name despite his being the President's former Chief of Staff.

Here you go:

Why are the teachers striking?
The unions oppose Emanuel's demands for a new contract. Emanuel wants teachers to be evaluated under a new system that relies heavily on the results of standardized testing rather than tenure. Emanuel also wants to lengthen the school day, while replacing a scheduled 4 percent pay increase for 2012 with a gradual 16 percent salary bump spread out over four years. Emanuel argues that the reforms will weed out bad teachers, while helping to reduce the Chicago school system's $665 million deficit.

Why do teachers object to Rahm's plan?
They say that they can't be held accountable for how their students perform on tests. In teachers' view, when it comes to poor academic performance, "the main problem is poverty," not bad teachers, say Stephanie Simon and James B. Kelleher at Reuters. "They say their students do poorly because they're hungry, because their lives are chaotic, because they don't have the eyeglasses they need or quiet places to do their homework." Educators believe that the focus on teacher performance is not only misguided, but "a brazen attempt to shift public resources" to charter schools, which are publicly funded, privately run, and largely non-unionized.

Why Chicago teachers are striking: A guide - The Week
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Using "tenure" alone is enough to disqulify that article: "tenure" is not a union benefit. Under tenure; a teacher may not be fired for any reason save unlawful activities. Tenure has to do with academic honesty and was a benefit given to collegiate professors during the reformation and into The Enlightenment. Tenure is the Holy Grail of academia. Secondly; merit pay is a non union practice that sets one against another.
 
Josie said:
1. The students are hungry -- don't most, if not all, public schools supply a breakfast?

2. Their lives are chaotic -- very true. Some kids come from insane families and that can affect their performance on tests.

3. Glasses -- aren't there charities that help pay for glasses for people who can't afford them?

4. Quiet places to do their homework -- study hall? The library?
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School liberaries in Chicago have been closed.
 
jet57 said:
Using "tenure" alone is enough to disqulify that article: "tenure" is not a union benefit. Under tenure; a teacher may not be fired for any reason save unlawful activities. Tenure has to do with academic honesty and was a benefit given to collegiate professors during the reformation and into The Enlightenment. Tenure is the Holy Grail of academia. Secondly; merit pay is a non union practice that sets one against another.
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That's crazy then.
It's not unlawful to be a crappy teacher.
So tenure protects crappy teachers from being fired.
Good to know.
 
Harry Guerrilla said:
Then what is your solution to the city's budget deficit?
Where are they going to find $700 million dollars?
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Leave everything as is. Offer a modest raise. Don't threaten people with their jobs.
 
jet57 said:
Leave everything as is. Offer a modest raise
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Excellent idea! When your business is in the hole by millions of dollars, pay your employees more! That'll fix it! :shock:
 
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