Canada cuts ties with Iran, closes embassy, orders Iranian diplomats home

MMC said:

Actually it's not to complicated at all. Seems the West has gambled that Sunni Arabs know how to conduct themselves as Democracies. IMO.....a Major Mistake!

Anyone know if Canada is backing Obama and the Syrian Situation? I mean I have heard Canada speak out about the Atorcities that Assad was committing. But I have yet to hear them say anything about the Sunni Arabs of the FSA using Children to mount offensives against Assad. Nor anything about those Christians they were massacring while playing War!

Why should the West Just give the Sunni Arabs another Country to Rule?

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Forget democracy for the moment. Democracy is organic.

Many of the FSA are Defectors from the Syrian Army.. .I don't know anything about child soldiers, but there has never been any shortage of rumors and accusations in the ME.

I would tend to support Sunnis over Shias.. While I know some really sharp Shia's like Ali Naimi, for the most part I find them to be "volatile".. Saudi Arabia's Shia tend to be loyal, but a crisis can still send them over the edge. I have seen that up close and personal.

Syria has a Sunni majority and both the well to do and the middle class in Syria are Sunni. IMO the best hope for democratic reforms comes from an educated middle class.

sharon said:

Forget democracy for the moment. Democracy is organic.

Many of the FSA are Defectors from the Syrian Army.. .I don't know anything about child soldiers, but there has never been any shortage of rumors and accusations in the ME.

I would tend to support Sunnis over Shias.. While I know some really sharp Shia's like Ali Naimi, for the most part I find them to be "volatile".. Saudi Arabia's Shia tend to be loyal, but a crisis can still send them over the edge. I have seen that up close and personal.

Syria has a Sunni majority and both the well to do and the middle class in Syria are Sunni. IMO the best hope for democratic reforms comes from an educated middle class.

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Yes but they are not Alawite and the last remaining bloodline to the orignal Syrians either. Also they werent Child Soldiers. They were Christian Children. Red Cross validated the massacres to, before calling it an All out Civil War. Despite Susan Rice's Always crying about Assad commiting atrocities.

Also the difference with the Shia is everyone knows what that Agenda is. There is no deceptions that can be played. Now with the Sunni. Thats a complete different story.

MMC said:

Yes but they are not Alawite and the last remaining bloodline to the orignal Syrians either. Also they werent Child Soldiers. They were Christian Children. Red Cross validated the massacres to, before calling it an All out Civil War. Despite Susan Rice's Always crying about Assad commiting atrocities.

Also the difference with the Shia is everyone knows what that Agenda is. There is no deceptions that can be played. Now with the Sunni. Thats a complete different story.

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I don't know what you mean. What is the Shia agenda?

sharon said:

I don't know what you mean. What is the Shia agenda?

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What is their Religious Doctrine all about? I means Connery somewhat explained it with just those in Iran. Which would lead them to turn around the Oppression by the Sunni and Establish their Caliphate.

MMC said:

Actually it's not to complicated at all. Seems the West has gambled that Sunni Arabs know how to conduct themselves as Democracies. IMO.....a Major Mistake!

Anyone know if Canada is backing Obama and the Syrian Situation? I mean I have heard Canada speak out about the Atorcities that Assad was committing. But I have yet to hear them say anything about the Sunni Arabs of the FSA using Children to mount offensives against Assad. Nor anything about those Christians they were massacring while playing War!

Why should the West Just give the Sunni Arabs another Country to Rule?

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Canada supports the Free Syrian rebels but will not send anything but medical supplies to Syria.

MMC said:

What is their Religious Doctrine all about? I means Connery somewhat explained it with just those in Iran. Which would lead them to turn around the Oppression by the Sunni and Establish their Caliphate.

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I don't know anyone in the ME who wants a Caliphate. The last one was such a dud and turned the whole region into an illiterate backwater.

Hussein bin Ali proclaimed himself Caliph in 1924 and was immediately chased off the Arabian peninsula.

IMO.. the only ones who want a new Caliphate are radicals who actually want a monthly welfare check in perpetuity from the oil producing states.

MMC said:

Why should the West Just give the Sunni Arabs another Country to Rule?

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Exactly. Surely we could find some people who could fill the role of puppet dictator in these countries.

sharon said:

I don't know anyone in the ME who wants a Caliphate. The last one was such a dud and turned the whole region into an illiterate backwater.

Hussein bin Ali proclaimed himself Caliph in 1924 and was immediately chased off the Arabian peninsula.

IMO.. the only ones who want a new Caliphate are radicals who actually want a monthly welfare check in perpetuity from the oil producing states.

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I would talk about how the Berbers might have a different take on that. As well as the Zaydi. But that would be a differnt topic and I think I already took Mya's thread outta the loop on the Canadians and Iran.

Although it is good to know they are only about sending out medical supplies to Syria. Wish the same could be said of us!

MMC said:

I would talk about how the Berbers might have a different take on that. As well as the Zaydi. But that would be a differnt topic and I think I already took Mya's thread outta the loop on the Canadians and Iran.

Although it is good to know they are only about sending out medical supplies to Syria. Wish the same could be said of us!

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Egypt is sending teachers into the Syrian refugee camps, Saudi Arabia is building 2500 housing units for the Refugees in northern Jordan and the GCC are airlifting food, medicine, blankets etc to them.

The refugee population is over 240,000 now in Turkey and Jordan (and those are just the ones who have registered).. By all accounts there are 1.2 million Syrians who are displaced internally.

No question that its a humanitrian crisis.

sharon said:

Egypt is sending teachers into the Syrian refugee camps, Saudi Arabia is building 2500 housing units for the Refugees in northern Jordan and the GCC are airlifting food, medicine, blankets etc to them.

The refugee population is over 240,000 now in Turkey and Jordan (and those are just the ones who have registered).. By all accounts there are 1.2 million Syrians who are displaced internally.

No question that its a humanitrian crisis.

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Mostly Sunni Arabs and Christians for the refugees. Well the MB has been in Syria along with AQ. Both have nothing to do with Syria.....technically, Correct? Do you think the Shia Arabs feel the Same way in Yemen and Bahrain like the Sunni feel in Syria?

Any reason that those Sunni Overlords shouldn't recieve the same Punishment that Assad is taking?

Btw just why are all those Christians that have been round for a couple thousand years or so. Backing Assad?

MMC said:

Mostly Sunni Arabs and Christians for the refugees. Well the MB has been in Syria along with AQ. Both have nothing to do with Syria.....technically, Correct? Do you think the Shia Arabs feel the Same way in Yemen and Bahrain like the Sunni feel in Syria?

Any reason that those Sunni Overlords shouldn't receive the same Punishment that Assad is taking?

Btw just why are all those Christians that have been round for a couple thousand years or so. Backing Assad?

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Yemen is another whole kettle of fish.. They have been in turmoil since I was a girl.. Its pretty much lawless outside of Sana.

In Yemen you have the warlords, the al Houthis who are funded by Iran, the Royalists, the Communists, Al Qaeda in the south and al Shaabab from Somalia have arrived.

Currently their oil production has slowed to a trickle because of sabotage, 500 factories have closed, people are starving and the place is awash in guns. Saudi Arabia built a couple of colleges in Yemen, gives them gasoline and foreign aid.. in part because that northern border with Asir is porous and really difficult mountain terrain.. KSA is vigilant in stopping weapons and terrorists from crossing into Arabia.

Its hard for me to comment on Bahrain.. I have American friends who have lived there for decades and they say its been grossly hyped.. a propaganda war. The day of the massive riots that were televised 300 Americans crossed the causeway for a big golf tournament.

Most think its yet another effort by Iran to gain a foothold on the Arabian peninsula.

The MB are not the same MB of the 1950s and 1960s... They have matured alot and have become far more politically savvy and inclusive.

Iran also has a Christian population.. 73 registered denominations and 600 churches. I think the Christian population of Syria is smaller but every bit as old. I just don't know much about their relationship with the Assad regime.

Syria is less tribal than Libya.. and I don't think you could call any Syrians overlords.

I don't have any gift for prophecy.. I just try to keep track of the changing details.

sharon said:

Yemen is another whole kettle of fish.. They have been in turmoil since I was a girl.. Its pretty much lawless outside of Sana.

In Yemen you have the warlords, the al Houthis who are funded by Iran, the Royalists, the Communists, Al Qaeda in the south and al Shaabab from Somalia have arrived.

Currently their oil production has slowed to a trickle because of sabotage, 500 factories have closed, people are starving and the place is awash in guns. Saudi Arabia built a couple of colleges in Yemen, gives them gasoline and foreign aid.. in part because that northern border with Asir is porous and really difficult mountain terrain.. KSA is vigilant in stopping weapons and terrorists from crossing into Arabia.

Its hard for me to comment on Bahrain.. I have American friends who have lived there for decades and they say its been grossly hyped.. a propaganda war. The day of the massive riots that were televised 300 Americans crossed the causeway for a big golf tournament.

Most think its yet another effort by Iran to gain a foothold on the Arabian peninsula.

The MB are not the same MB of the 1950s and 1960s... They have matured alot and have become far more politically savvy and inclusive.

Iran also has a Christian population.. 73 registered denominations and 600 churches. I think the Christian population of Syria is smaller but every bit as old. I just don't know much about their relationship with the Assad regime.

Syria is less tribal than Libya.. and I don't think you could call any Syrians overlords.

I don't have any gift for prophecy.. I just try to keep track of the changing details.

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Well.....thats why I didnt say anything about Overlords in Syria. Now as for the MB.....indeed they are not they same. I think they are far more devious than they ever were and are only using Democracy for their own Power Trip.

MMC said:

Well.....thats why I didnt say anything about Overlords in Syria. Now as for the MB.....indeed they are not they same. I think they are far more devious than they ever were and are only using Democracy for their own Power Trip.

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There is no concept of civic participation in Islam.. They didn't have that Greek and Roman experience and long struggle to arrive at a democratic republic.

The agreement is between those who are ruled and those who rule.. Obedience for service... centered on the mosque.

The intellectuals get it.. but the majority probably don't.

There is a very real threat that the Arab spring won't produce more civic participation.. but that elections will result in "president for life" scenarios with winner take all and dominate the rest.

I think the MB gets it.. and are the most likely to be inclusive and encourage civic participation. Look for cautious reform.. at a snail's pace.

sharon said:

There is no concept of civic participation in Islam..

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Bull****. It has nothing to do with Islam. It has everything to do with European colonialism and dictatorships after that. Christian nations that were given their freedom from their colonial masters all experienced the exact same problems as you blame on Islam. Democracy in South America? HA! They went from one dictator backed by the Catholic Church to the next.

Face it, Islam aint the problem.. religion is as it is at its core... anti-democratic.

They didn't have that Greek and Roman experience and long struggle to arrive at a democratic republic.

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Has nothing to do with that. The Greek and Roman experience was hardly democratic (especially the Roman) by today's standard, plus all that experience was purged by the Christian Church for many centuries... called the Dark Ages.. Tons of knowledge was destroyed by the Christian Church, but it was saved by... the Islamic nations of the time who were open and free (relatively speaking) and progressive. The Dark Ages was the church asserting its power after the fall of the Roman Empire, through their surrogates in the royal houses of Europe.

The agreement is between those who are ruled and those who rule.. Obedience for service... centered on the mosque.

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And how is that exactly any different than the Christian church back in the day and even now in some areas of the world? Who is the most powerful man in some areas of the US... the local elected politician or the parish priest?

There is a very real threat that the Arab spring won't produce more civic participation.. but that elections will result in "president for life" scenarios with winner take all and dominate the rest.

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Again wrong. There will be more civic participation.. the turn out in Egypt and Tunisia was far far far higher than the average US national election. The key to all those countries is to have the institutions in place and untainted and not have another group or person move in to just replace the old regime. They key problem with all these countries.. South American, African, Islamic, and so on.. the lack of or very weak democratic institutions and systems that are easily manipulated. Such systems take time to build... after all they did not pop up out of the blue in western Europe or in the US. They started slowly.. first with minority dictatorships and then slowly over hundreds of years the democratic systems were expanded to what they are today.

PeteEU said:

Bull****. It has nothing to do with Islam. It has everything to do with European colonialism and dictatorships after that. Christian nations that were given their freedom from their colonial masters all experienced the exact same problems as you blame on Islam. Democracy in South America? HA! They went from one dictator backed by the Catholic Church to the next.

Face it, Islam aint the problem.. religion is as it is at its core... anti-democratic.



Has nothing to do with that. The Greek and Roman experience was hardly democratic (especially the Roman) by today's standard, plus all that experience was purged by the Christian Church for many centuries... called the Dark Ages.. Tons of knowledge was destroyed by the Christian Church, but it was saved by... the Islamic nations of the time who were open and free (relatively speaking) and progressive. The Dark Ages was the church asserting its power after the fall of the Roman Empire, through their surrogates in the royal houses of Europe.



And how is that exactly any different than the Christian church back in the day and even now in some areas of the world? Who is the most powerful man in some areas of the US... the local elected politician or the parish priest?



Again wrong. There will be more civic participation.. the turn out in Egypt and Tunisia was far far far higher than the average US national election. The key to all those countries is to have the institutions in place and untainted and not have another group or person move in to just replace the old regime. They key problem with all these countries.. South American, African, Islamic, and so on.. the lack of or very weak democratic institutions and systems that are easily manipulated. Such systems take time to build... after all they did not pop up out of the blue in western Europe or in the US. They started slowly.. first with minority dictatorships and then slowly over hundreds of years the democratic systems were expanded to what they are today.

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I probably failed to communicate with you.............