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US economy adds 96K jobs, rate falls to 8.1 pct. [W:123]

Poverty is what happens to the middle class after GOP policy sucks them dry.

Really? Under Bush the middle class got a tax break. Under Obama we will get hit with higher health insurance premiums.

The only thing that happened under Bush was at the very end, and it was due to laws signed by Clinton.
 
Really? Under Bush the middle class got a tax break. Under Obama we will get hit with higher health insurance premiums.


FALSE - you'll get the chance to shop around for the best premiums.

It shows how little you really know about the ACA.

The only thing that happened under Bush was at the very end, and it was due to laws signed by Clinton.

The friggin' ignorance in some posts is unbelievable. No understanding of economics causes and effects at all.

Thanks for playing.
 
FALSE - you'll get the chance to shop around for the best premiums.

It shows how little you really know about the ACA.



The friggin' ignorance in some posts is unbelievable. No understanding of economics causes and effects at all.

Thanks for playing.

If you think insurance premiums will go down in a "manditory" market where only all inclusive policies are allowed you are truly blind and may be one of the last who still has Hope left over from the last election. There is no way such a policy will be cheaper than a catastrophic/ high deductible plan and an HSA account.
 
If you think insurance premiums will go down in a "manditory" market where only all inclusive policies are allowed you are truly blind and may be one of the last who still has Hope left over from the last election. There is no way such a policy will be cheaper than a catastrophic/ high deductible plan and an HSA account.

Are you familiar with FEHB?

No?

Didn't think so...
 
Really? Under Bush the middle class got a tax break. Under Obama we will get hit with higher health insurance premiums.

The only thing that happened under Bush was at the very end, and it was due to laws signed by Clinton.

Under Obama, the middle class got a tax cut, too. No one seems to want to believe that a liberal Democrat would support a tax cut, but everyone seems to think that a liberal Republican would.
 
Are you familiar with FEHB?

No?

Didn't think so...

I'm thinking this may be a wasted trip but I'll go a short way anyway. I suspect by your posts you won't accept it anyway, but what the hell, I have 3 minutes to spare.

Yes, I am aware of FEHB. You are assuming these plans will still be available once this cluster**** of an industry takeover goes in to effect.

Will Obamacare Kill HSAs?

Health Savings Account (HSA) holders. Eight million Americans, according to the Treasury Department, are covered by plans with low-cost premiums and high deductibles that are designed for large, unexpected medical costs. Money is also set aside in a savings account to cover the deductibles, and whatever isn’t spent in one year can build up tax-free. Nearly a third of new HSA users, according to Treasury figures, previously had no insurance or bought coverage on their own.

These policies will be severely limited. The Senate plan says a policy deemed “acceptable” must have insurance (rather than the individual) pay out at least 76% of the benefits. The House plan is pegged at 70%. That’s not the way these plans are set up to work. Roy Ramthun, who implemented the HSA regulations at the Treasury Department in 2003, says the regulations are crippling. “Companies tell me they could be forced to take products off the market,” he said in an interview.

If an insurance plan must pay for 70 or 76 percent of all health care costs, it would be next to impossible for it to qualify as a high-deductible health plan. No HDHP, no HSA contribution.

The only hope a plan would have would be to do the following:

* Have a deductible no higher than the HDHP minimum ($1150 single, $2300 family in 2009)
* The out of pocket limit would have to be an identical amount
* The plan would have to cover all allowable preventive care on a first-dollar basis (annual physical, prenatal and well-child, immunizations, smoking cessation, weight loss programs, and early screening services)

Any HDHP which is this generous would have very little premium savings relative to a tradtional health insurance plan. If the typical HDHP today shaves about 33 percent off your premium, a plan like this might only shave off about 10 percent. There would be very little incentive to get an HSA-qualified insurance plan.

A couple of years ago I talked to the president of our local EMC and suggested that they extend their in house health insurance plan to their customers/ members. They offer an HSA program, and are essentially non profit as it is a coop and is owned by it's customers. This would involve expanding their HR department and billing premiums as an optional add to our power bills. The president thought this was a good idea and something he would be willing to look in to if Obamacare was struck down because they had already been made aware that this structure would be eliminated under the new ACA. I'm looking forward to calling him back about the second week in November.

Assuming you read the short and concise article (chosen for it's simplicity with you in mind) we should be done with this discussion. Should you feel the need to try to spin this for Barry go right ahead. I will be somewhere else NOT feeding the trolls.
 
Poverty is what happens to the middle class after GOP policy sucks them dry.
After four years of Obama, we have more people in poverty than ever before, and the highest poverty rate in 50 years. We have a 9% increase in healthcare premiums, food prices up 6.2% and gas prices through the roof. At the same time, since the beginning of the "recovery" median household incomes have actually dropped 4.8% and an unprecedented number of people have thrown up their arms and left the workforce altogether. It's time to end Obama's war on the middle class, don't you think?
 
Under Obama, the middle class got a tax cut, too. No one seems to want to believe that a liberal Democrat would support a tax cut, but everyone seems to think that a liberal Republican would.

What tax cut? You mean the 'Bush' Tax cuts that got extended?
 
FALSE - you'll get the chance to shop around for the best premiums.

It shows how little you really know about the ACA.

You do realize that being able to shop around for the best premium does not mean that the premiums wont be higher than what I am paying now?

It shows how little you know about reading and comprehension.


The friggin' ignorance in some posts is unbelievable. No understanding of economics causes and effects at all.

Thanks for playing.

Sure lets all pretend that Clintons deregulation of derivatives and glass-steagall had nothing to do with the recession :roll:
 
And something like 368,000 folks dropped out of the labor force.

10,000 people retire every day. This trend is expected to continue for 20 years or so, until the baby boomers are all retired. That is 300,000 per month.

Kinda takes the steam out of your 368k number, doesn't it? The labor force is shrinking, because of the baby boomers retiring, and that isn't going to change for a LONG time.

Daily Number: Baby Boomers Retire - Pew Research Center
 
10,000 people retire every day. This trend is expected to continue for 20 years or so, until the baby boomers are all retired. That is 300,000 per month.

Kinda takes the steam out of your 368k number, doesn't it? The labor force is shrinking, because of the baby boomers retiring, and that isn't going to change for a LONG time.

Daily Number: Baby Boomers Retire - Pew Research Center

Your link says 10,000 per day reach 65 - not retire.

A large number of Americans do not retire at 65.

The average retirement age is now 67 - and rising.

Americans expect to work longer, retire later - Life Inc.

Postponing Retirement: Record Number Of Americans Choosing To Stay At Work

In fact, many Americans cannot afford to retire due to loss of equity in their homes from the housing crash and record low interest rates (which hurts the amount they make off of their savings).


Actually, the most optimistic liberal think tank that I recall seeing puts the number that retired of that 368,000 figure at just under 50%...and even that does not stipulate how many of those retired because they gave up looking for work.
 
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Nope.

The payroll tax cuts, and the stimulus tax cuts.

Unfortunately, the debt caused by all of this means higher taxes. The average tax payer has to now pay an additional 30k in taxes to pay back the 700bn cost of the rest of the stimulus that we had to borrow, the 4 trillion in extra spending, and the deficit caused by the payroll tax cut, as they didnt reduce benefits which the payroll tax pays for directly.
 
Unfortunately, the debt caused by all of this means higher taxes. The average tax payer has to now pay an additional 30k in taxes to pay back the 700bn cost of the rest of the stimulus that we had to borrow, the 4 trillion in extra spending, and the deficit caused by the payroll tax cut, as they didnt reduce benefits which the payroll tax pays for directly.

That is the problem with tax cuts not tied to spending cuts. But, you see, tax cuts are popular, while spending cuts are not.
 
That is the problem with tax cuts not tied to spending cuts. But, you see, tax cuts are popular, while spending cuts are not.

The problem is more of tax cuts being tied to political ideology rather than efficient funding. Taxes should be broad and minimal, to bring in the desired amount of revenue with the least burden to taxpayers.
 
And something like 368,000 folks dropped out of the labor force.
And still up by 250K since the start fo the year. Some pople don't appear to realize that the labor force is like the people on the bus in the grade school song -- they go up and down all over town. Over the last 18 months, the labor force has gone up ten times and has gone down eight times. Guess when right-wing clowns chime in.

Meanwhile long-term demographics have more and more older Americans retiring and more and more younger Americans spending more and more time in school. Guess what the effects of those trends are.
 
Additionally, the weekly jobless claims are absolutely pathetic for accuracy as EVERY SINGLE WEEK for at least half a year they have been revised lower. That is ridiculous - clearly whatever model they are using does not work.
They don't use a model. They count up the actual number of initial claims filed. Revisions typically come from corrections to late or inaccurate reporting by states. The advance number for August 25 for instance was 309,923 where the revised number was 312,111. I don't think that's a decrease. The advance for August 18 was 310,121 while the revised was 311,787. I don't think that's a decrease either. Odd how your reports and the actual facts are so consistently at odds with each other.
 
Many will not say that the economy needs about 130K just to absorb population growth...
Even if there were a reason to believe that the number on non-farm payrolls should move in lockstep with the civilian non-institutionalized population, your math would suck. The population is not growing as fast as you apparently think it is.
 
That is the painful truth right there, and it will take us a considerable time to reconfigure to get a manufacturing base back.
LOL! The VALUE of US manufacturing output has continued to soar. What's declined since the mid-1990's s the number of manufacturing JOBS. That same decline has been experienced in ALL of the world's significant manufacturing economies. China in fact has lost more manufacturing jobs since 1995 than the US presently has. US job losses by contrast have been about average. People need to get used to the fact that -- like agriculture in the late 19th and early 20th centuries -- manufacturing has lost its ability to provide jobs for the masses. Get used to it.
 
They don't use a model. They count up the actual number of initial claims filed. Revisions typically come from corrections to late or inaccurate reporting by states. The advance number for August 25 for instance was 309,923 where the revised number was 312,111. I don't think that's a decrease. The advance for August 18 was 310,121 while the revised was 311,787. I don't think that's a decrease either. Odd how your reports and the actual facts are so consistently at odds with each other.
You are correct - I mistyped.

I meant that the jobless claims have for the last half year have always been revised higher (meaning the truth ALWAYS turns out to be worse then the initial report).

Every week, these people make the numbers sound better then they really are...whether deliberately or not.


And speaking of being wrong - are you going to finally admit that you got it wrong when you typed 'There is nothing about new jobs in the ARRA.'?

From Recovery.gov - Tracking the Money

'*THE RECOVERY ACT

On Feb. 13, 2009, Congress passed the American Recovery and Reinvestment Act of 2009 at the urging of President Obama, who signed it into law four days later. A direct response to the economic crisis, the Recovery Act has three immediate goals:

Create new jobs and save existing ones'


http://www.recovery.gov/About/Pages/The_Act.aspx

http://www.debatepolitics.com/econo...rease-government-reven-30.html#post1060873338



Have a nice day.
 
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You are correct - I mistyped.

I meant that the jobless claims have for the last half year have always been revised higher (meaning the truth ALWAYS turns out to be worse then the initial report).

Every week, these people make the numbers sound better then they really are...whether deliberately or not.


And speaking of being wrong - are you going to finally admit that you got it wrong when you typed 'There is nothing about new jobs in the ARRA.'?

From Recovery.gov - Tracking the Money

'*THE RECOVERY ACT

On Feb. 13, 2009, Congress passed the American Recovery and Reinvestment Act of 2009 at the urging of President Obama, who signed it into law four days later. A direct response to the economic crisis, the Recovery Act has three immediate goals:

Create new jobs and save existing ones'


The Recovery Act

http://www.debatepolitics.com/econo...rease-government-reven-30.html#post1060873338



Have a nice day.

Correction.

The highlighted part is wrong.

You typed the following:

'Nothing in this latest lament of your various shortcomings actually rises to the level of deserving a reply, but here are some simple corrections to elementary facts that you still seem to be having trouble with. ARRA did what it was designed and projected to do. Everyone credible -- including of course CBO -- agrees that it did. The measure used from the outset was jobs existing in the economy that would not have been there without the effects of ARRA. There is nothing about new jobs. In fact, saving an existing job is a more valuable thing than creating a new job, but there isn't much reason to think you would understand why. Standard disclaimers are simple boilerplate language that has nothing to do with the analysis at hand. When construction projects are completed, there is no more funding for them. That's the end of them. Your command of what I presume is your native language is degraded. Oh, and the only one wandering around aimlessly here is you.'

My apologies for the misquote.


And i do not care about your lame attempts to weasel out of it by saying what 'context' you meant it.

In discussing the ARRA, you stated that 'there was nothing about new jobs.'

Yet, on the ARRA website, it states the exact opposite.

Your statement was at the very least, poorly typed. At most, it was a fabrication/misunderstanding of the truth.

At least have the maturity to admit it when you are shown to be wrong.

But - unfortunately - your ego apparently will not allow it.


And now, instead of taking responsibility for your mistake, you will undoubtedly try and twist it around with more insults, excuses and condescension...ANYTHING but show weakness.

Sad.



Have a nice day.
 
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Put down the Kool-Ade. If Obama had to carry the same LFPR (labor force participation rate) now, as when he took office, the U-3 is 11.4%. Not the 8.1 snow-job we were fed today.
Denial of reality. A right-wing staple. The LFPR has seen recent declines in large part because of the trainwreck that Republicans (again) made of the economy. Still haven't apologized for it either. The clowns. Then there are the longer term parts about increasing retirements and the how the lifetime wage premium paid for education has been rising while the value of real pay and benefits has been declining. Translation: more people have been going to school and staying there longer.

Do liberals even care about anything except the free-stuff gubmit teat in their mouths for another cycle ?
Yes, that's why they have such a big knowledge advantage over some bunch of stumbling, bumbling right-wingers mindlessly loitering on the sidewalk.

Your guy is a ****ing disaster. Man-up for once Obamabots.
Potty-mouth girly-talk is not very impressive. Where's the beef?
(Tip of the hat to Clara Peller)
 
We need to generate at least 130,584 jobs per month to keep up with population growth.
Talk to some qualified labor economists instead of a bunch of media airheads. The number you refer to is and has been declining for a good while. I'm sure you think that Freedom & Liberty® demand that laws be enacted to keep Americans from retiring when they want to, to keep Americans from going to or staying in school when they want to, and to keep Americans from staying home to raise their small children when they want to. But those laws thankfully don't exist, and I don't think even your unqualified Bumbler-Boy Willard intends to pass any, so your just plain stuck with the 130K number being an obviously lame and out-of-date overstatement.

Overall, we haven't been growing, we've been in a decline.
LOL!!! Overall, America was at one of its historic economic high points in January 2001, and in just eight short years, all of that was destroyed by the ignorance of greedy Republican laissez-faire free-market cowboy capitalism, leaving us to deal with the worst economic catastrophe since the Great Depression. Against all odds, we have been in an overall recovery since mid-2009 with the lagging variable of employment not surprisingly lagging. The recovery has of course been attacked and undermined by Republicans at every step along the way. Republicans openly admit that they see partisan interests as superior to national interests and are more than willing to see millions of (non-rich) Americans suffer in the hope that such a situation might buy them a few extra votes.

Unless my math is completely off, 2002-2008 saw greater job creation (at 43,560 average jobs created per month), than 2009-2012, but it was still sub-par.
"Subpar" is being a little generous. George W Bush had the worst jobs performance of any President since WWII. Eight years of miserable disgrace and failure across the board. That's all that Bush provided by any proper sort of math.
 
Oh, is that why during the 1920/21 depression, the government massively cut spending and tax rates - but still it ended less then 30 months after it began? With both the unemployment rate and the DOW reaching near per-crash levels within 3 1/2 years of the depression's beginning...all while the national debt shrank.

'Harding believed the federal government should be fiscally managed similar to the private sector having campaigned "Less government in business and more business in government."[116] "Harding was true to his word, carrying on budget cuts that had begun under a debilitated Woodrow Wilson. Federal spending declined from $6.3 billion in 1920 to $5 billion in 1921 and $3.3 billion in 1922.'
Manufactured right-wing rot no matter how many times it is bot-copied and pasted. A trip through the actual history would reveal that this Depression began in January 1920, while Harding (like W, consistently ranked as one of the worst Presidents in US history) arrived in office in March 1921. This was long after the post-WWI spending cuts of the FY 1921 and FY 1922 budgets had been set by the Wilson administration. Harding did indeed cut tax RATES during his brief term, but like Reagan in 1986, he also expanded the tax base, creating a net tax INCREASE. You didn't mention that part. Nor did you mention the massive gold inflows from war-ravaged Europe that actually did play a signficant role in speeding up our conversion from war-time to peace-time production, thereby resolving the central issue of the depression. Just more facts that tend to get left in the wake of the mighty ship of phony historical revisionism as it steams through.

Whereas the Great Depression and it's massive spending under Hoover and FDR resulted in a decade long economic mess where unemployment took over ten years to reach near per-crash levels and the DOW took 25! Oh, and the national debt skyrocketed.
LOL!!! How many times do you want to be beat up for this same old crock of crap?
 
What spin? I posted the facts. The economy grew by 2 trillion under Bush, EVEN with a recession. Percentages are a way to spin real numbers, by making everything relative.
Things such as growth and change are relative concepts to start out with. Bigger THAN something. Different FROM something. See how that works? This is why the grownups often use relative terms when talking about these sorts of things.
 
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