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NASDAQ closes at highest level since 2000

I paid $2.50 for a cup of coffee at IHOP last Sunday.

When I was a teenager, in New York City, a cup of coffee was 5¢.

I didn't say a cup of coffee would be $500 or $5000 dollars.

Tell me true. Are you paying more for groceries since the printing presses fired up at QE1? Most people claim that has happened. I never go shopping so I don't know. I know the USG claims that there is NO inflation. Do you agree with that claim?

(We're discussing economic policy, not politics)

Just FYI, inflation has actually been unusually low since Obama took office. In fact, we actually had deflation one of the years he was in office.
 
Thank goodness for Obama then. No inflation! That's wonderful news.

I should retract my concerns about low wages then. Without inflation there is no reason to pay anyone more money then they are getting now.

Just FYI, inflation has actually been unusually low since Obama took office. In fact, we actually had deflation one of the years he was in office.
 
There are two ways somebody can react to this economic news. One can say that the president has no impact on the economy. That's fine if you want to go that way, but then you are rejecting pretty much the entire message of the GOP and Romney. You are leaving them with no real reason to vote for Romney at all.

Alternately, you can say that the president actually does have some impact on the economy. Not necessarily the dominant impact, but some. If you say that, then the fact that under Obama the stock market has surged, surged so much that it has actually repaired the damage done during the last Republican administration in just three years, is certainly a huge plus for Obama.
 
There is the Specklebang economic theory that record profits can be generated by understaffing and underpaying workers. It's only a theory of course.

For some reason, I get a feeling that won't be as effective as it sounds. Not that I'd put it past a business.
 
It's all harmony here.

Teamosil straightened me out on that inflation thingy and has ameliorated any concerns I had about poorly paid workers who haven't had raises in years bearing the weight of these profits.


For some reason, I get a feeling that won't be as effective as it sounds. Not that I'd put it past a business.
 
None of the mainstream ones that for sure, and I'm not saying companies making profits is a bad thing or is not helping the economy. My point is that's not all there is to a recovery, the economy is already out of recession and is growing but unemployment is dropping much slower than the economy is growing. I'm just saying there's more to it than just companies making profits and stock markets climbing, its a common conservative argument that business drives the economy, which is certainly true, and that all we need to do is let business grow with less shackles(fewer restrictions, lower taxes) but there's more to it than that.


Fair enough.
 
I paid $2.50 for a cup of coffee at IHOP last Sunday.

When I was a teenager, in New York City, a cup of coffee was 5¢.

I didn't say a cup of coffee would be $500 or $5000 dollars.

Tell me true. Are you paying more for groceries since the printing presses fired up at QE1? Most people claim that has happened. I never go shopping so I don't know. I know the USG claims that there is NO inflation. Do you agree with that claim?

(We're discussing economic policy, not politics)

Some inflation is good, prices should go up over time because people should be making more money on average as the economy grows. What is really critical is purchasing power, in other words say you were working the same job for 30 years with no promotions or anything which cause you to automatically start making more money. Your income should still slowly creep up every year in pace with inflation so while you'll be making more in absolute dollars, you'll actually be making the same in terms of purchasing power so your standard of living should remain unchanged. All other things being equal over that time period of course.
 
I never said anything about why the market moved today. The analysts are saying it is two things- Europe and good jobs news. But that isn't really relevant. This is just the last step in a 3 long year march. The NASDAQ has more the DOUBLED in value since the bottom just six weeks after Obama took office.

This has zip to do with obama or the American economy, if it was based on that and that alone the market would be at 2000
 
Tell me true. Are you paying more for groceries since the printing presses fired up at QE1? Most people claim that has happened. I never go shopping so I don't know.

I know the USG claims that there is NO inflation. Do you agree with that claim?

(We're discussing economic policy, not politics)
Yes, but not by a large margin. BLS reports indicate that gains in food prices have been rather modest in the past 3 years, especially when compared to the remainder of the world. 1.8 percent for 2009, .8 percent in 2010, and 3.6 for the year 2011. Not egregious gains by any means.

http://www.bls.gov/cpi/cpid09av.pdf

http://www.bls.gov/cpi/cpid10av.pdf

http://www.bls.gov/cpi/cpid11av.pdf

Absolutely not, but inflation is resting below the historical average currently. I made the previous comment in jest seeing as some among us claimed that the first two rounds of easing would result in hyperinflation and economic ruin as well.
 
It's all harmony here.

Teamosil straightened me out on that inflation thingy and has ameliorated any concerns I had about poorly paid workers who haven't had raises in years bearing the weight of these profits.

Inflation is good silly.

It's a redistributive tool that takes money from the rich and gives to the poor. To assert that this somehow hurts the poor is absurd.
 
I just learned there hasn't been any inflation so my friends who never get raises are just bitching about nothing.

As a retiree, I'm not really affected by these things directly so I depend on others commentary to get my perspectives of things like inflation and employment.

I've heard so much complaining that I honestly thought there was inflation. My mistake and frankly I'm thrilled to learn this.

Some inflation is good, prices should go up over time because people should be making more money on average as the economy grows. What is really critical is purchasing power, in other words say you were working the same job for 30 years with no promotions or anything which cause you to automatically start making more money. Your income should still slowly creep up every year in pace with inflation so while you'll be making more in absolute dollars, you'll actually be making the same in terms of purchasing power so your standard of living should remain unchanged. All other things being equal over that time period of course.
 
This has zip to do with obama or the American economy, if it was based on that and that alone the market would be at 2000

Ok, so you are taking the pretty questionable stance that presidents have no impact on the economy. Fair enough. Then you reject all the Republican attacks on Obama, right?

Or do you think presidents affect the economy when you hear bad economic news and a Democrat is in office, but think they don't affect it when there is good economic news?
 
OK, so it's bad that there has been no inflation? I'm getting a little confused here.

Inflation is good silly.

It's a redistributive tool that takes money from the rich and gives to the poor. To assert that this somehow hurts the poor is absurd.
 
Ok, so you are taking the pretty questionable stance that presidents have no impact on the economy. Fair enough. Then you reject all the Republican attacks on Obama, right?

Or do you think presidents affect the economy when you hear bad economic news and a Democrat is in office, but think they don't affect it when there is good economic news?

I said the stock market surge today has nothing to do with our economy, I never said presidents don't effect the economy, nice try.
 
I said the stock market surge today has nothing to do with our economy, I never said presidents don't effect the economy, nice try.

Ah, ok. Sorry, I misunderstood.

Ok then, so you reject supply side economics. So you reject not just the conservative attacks on Obama, but the entire conservative economic position. Trickle down, Reaganomics, supply side economics, job creators, whatever you want to call it, that is what you are rejecting. Yes?
 
But...but...but...the stack market isn't an indicator of a healthy economy! It...it...it's not good that all those Wall Street cats made all that money!
 
But...but...but...the stack market isn't an indicator of a healthy economy! It...it...it's not good that all those Wall Street cats made all that money!

It's always funny hearing Republicans trying to imitate what they think our position is... You're trying to translate complicated ideas into simplistic teabagging binary propositions. It just doesn't work. Obviously nobody said that having a strong stock market is a bad thing. We said that too much emphasis was being placed on the supply side and not enough on the demand side. We said that too much of the money was going to the rich and not enough to the people that work, not that it was bad for money to go to the rich. Becoming a liberal is a process of developing a more nuanced, more sophisticated, understanding of the world, so when you try to boil liberalism down to simplistic conservative style binary slogans it just doesn't make any sense.
 
It's always funny hearing Republicans trying to imitate what they think our position is... You're trying to translate complicated ideas into simplistic teabagging binary propositions. It just doesn't work. Obviously nobody said that having a strong stock market is a bad thing. We said that too much emphasis was being placed on the supply side and not enough on the demand side. We said that too much of the money was going to the rich and not enough to the people that work, not that it was bad for money to go to the rich. Becoming a liberal is a process of developing a more nuanced, more sophisticated, understanding of the world, so when you try to boil liberalism down to simplistic conservative style binary slogans it just doesn't make any sense.

That's what the Libbos were saying when Bush was prez and the market had record numbers.

The Libbos also hate it when Wall Streeters make money...except, of course, when they can use that info to make Obama look good. Anything for the Messiah
 
WTF are you smoking? Where did you come up with that stuff? LMAO Go to bed.

Ok, I guess I need to explain. The conservative economic theory is that the goal is to drive investment capital up as high as possible. That is the basic idea of supply side economics- the economy is driven by investment capital, so if you boost up investment capital, the economy will do well. Every conservative economic policy is based around that idea. That is their bread and butter.

In reality, supply (investment capital) does matter, but so does demand. Liberals generally favor a more balanced strategy that emphasizes both supply (investment) and demand (consumer spending). That's why the conservatives tend to prefer money going to the rich- because they invest it, where the liberals tend to prefer a more even distribution of money (because middle class people spend more of what they earn). That is the spectrum of American economic policy.

The stock market is, of course, an important economic indicator. It indicates the supply side. Conservative economists would claim that it is by far the most important economic indicator, liberal economists would say that it was only one of the important indicators, on par with consumer spending and median income and whatnot.

You seem to be saying it doesn't matter at all. What that would mean is that you reject both the liberal and conservative positions and have some kind of approach that is solely interested in demand. Something like an economic view you might find in the most extreme OWS person. So, that is a pretty surprising stance for you to take, so I'm asking you if that really is what you think, or if the stuff about the stock market you're saying is just empty talk.
 
How's the unemployment rate coming?

Good. 4.5 million new jobs in just the past 27 months.

You're doing the same thing some of these other guys are- trying to paint an overly simplistic picture. Of course the stock market isn't the only economic indicator that matters. It is one of several important indicators. It is the one that conservative economists fixate on the most. More than liberals. But that doesn't mean it isn't important. It is. To a conservative, this should seem to be great news that the stock market is way up. To a liberal, it is still very good news, although maybe not as great.
 
Ok, I guess I need to explain. The conservative economic theory is that the goal is to drive investment capital up as high as possible. That is the basic idea of supply side economics- the economy is driven by investment capital, so if you boost up investment capital, the economy will do well. Every conservative economic policy is based around that idea. That is their bread and butter.

In reality, supply (investment capital) does matter, but so does demand. Liberals generally favor a more balanced strategy that emphasizes both supply (investment) and demand (consumer spending). That's why the conservatives tend to prefer money going to the rich- because they invest it, where the liberals tend to prefer a more even distribution of money (because middle class people spend more of what they earn). That is the spectrum of American economic policy.

The stock market is, of course, an important economic indicator. It indicates the supply side. Conservative economists would claim that it is by far the most important economic indicator, liberal economists would say that it was only one of the important indicators, on par with consumer spending and median income and whatnot.

You seem to be saying it doesn't matter at all. What that would mean is that you reject both the liberal and conservative positions and have some kind of approach that is solely interested in demand. Something like an economic view you might find in the most extreme OWS person. So, that is a pretty surprising stance for you to take, so I'm asking you if that really is what you think, or if the stuff about the stock market you're saying is just empty talk.

What I am saying is what happened today has nothing to do with the US economy, it was all about europe. As a rule though Wall Street bets on the future and that includes the future of our economy, things can be in the toilet and they see a buying opportunity so stock prices don't necessarily mirror the economy, sometimes it is more like a freaky circus mirror.
 
Thanks goodness for the Republican House that has led us to such prosperity!

:mrgreen:
 
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